Character discussion - Kyou
 

The purpose of this thread is to provide a place to discuss all things Kyou (Please don't confuse with her younger twin sister Ryou) related.
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She is the funny side of the story, apparent no problems, with support of sister and pet, Kyou in scene is to happy moments. :)

Kyou is a delicious tsundere, with light-blue panties. :D

Alas, I can feel the tsundere quarreling from the episode 3 thread sweeping over to this one and the one devoted to Tomoyo *braces for impact*

I like her pretty much as a character, even more so since the blushing in the last episode. Not so much the pet, that is the icing on the cake, but the blushing :heh: Rowdy girls with a soft spot are always the most appealing characters to me!

Edit (@Ultima_Rasengan05)
I surely hope she won't be reduced to "the girl that always appears to beat up Sunohara" (neither would I like Tomoya to become "the girl Sunohara goes to in order to get beat up" :p ). So far, I like the subtle approach on her possible attraction to Tomoya (blushing sideglance at him at the mentioning of "something blue", how cute! ^,^

Kyou really likes to throw books just to get Tomoya's attention. Next to Tomoyo, Kyou has the "cool" characteristic within her that makes you think even though she acts like she's bullying Tomoya most of the time, she can be a cool person to hang out with. I even think that with all the "bullying" that she did to Tomoya so far, I think she might like the guy. I also think of Kyou as the comedic relief in the show instead of Sunohara, even though Sunohara was suppose to be the comedic relief in Clannad.:heh: Although we don't really know much about what story she has to contribute to Clannad, at least we know she is "bi"...haha:D

I like her, i dont think she is really tsundere, id think that would apply more to tomoyo. Kyou seems more like chidori from FMP, wild and outlandish. I am talking about this anime here, i know she might have been different in the game (which i know ziltch about).

Kyou does have a strong tsundere aspect, especially in her offensive way of dealing with Tomoya.

Tomoyo is not tsundere, not even close. Tomoyo speaks her mind and is straight as nails to express all her feelings, that's the opposite of a tsundere.

Chidori from FMP is very much a tsundere. If you think Chidori is not tsundere, you need your definition of "tsundere" checked, very badly.

Remember people, a tsundere girl CAN be wild in nature, the key is the "denial" bit.

Hey, it's something we all love ^_~ Plus, her strategies are quite hilarious.
Yeah, her imutou relationship does always warm my heart and her pet is just funny.

No, the key of Tsundere is "Hostile to the beloved at first, but warms up to him/her."


That's why I said Kyou as a strong tsundere aspect: She isn't hostile enough to be a full-blown tsundere (unlike Asuka of Eva.)

That is the old tsundere concept, in my words, the 蓮蓉月饼 (( lotus mooncake )) of tsundere, which or which may not include yolk. :p

Definition of tsundere had evolved since then. Even alternations of facets that need not actual hostility, so long as it works betwen denial-harbored feelings, etc etc etc, it is tsundere, kinda those modern snow-mooncakes. 8P

I'm too much of a traditionalist to accept that as "tsundere."

It's "tsundere lite", according to me.

In other words, Kang Seung Jae subscribes to the "Shiraishi-ist" school of "classical" tsundere. Nothing particularly wrong there. :p

Haha, if there is another term that does not use the word 'tsundere' (more so since she was receptive to Tomoya most of the time, if not for some of the kinks left and right) are 'ballistic'.

Of course, her qualities other than that (protective sister, Botan, etc.) makes her an interesting character.

"Shiraishi-ist"? Care to explain?

I think something along the lines of what the Shiraishi guy said in one of the Lucky Channel segments.

Oh, you mean this? : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgdcWSvdLCc


True, I'm a classical tsundereist.

A very simple explanation

Tsundere is taken from the Japanese word...

つんつん (tsuntsun) = aloof (can be wild, talkative, forceful, etc)
でれでれ (deredere) = lovestruck (suddenly become really shy, embarrassed, trying to deny her own feelings)

It means from tsuntsun to deredere (つんでれ), so in short, switching from being wild to being embarrassed and vice versa.

Kyou definitely is a tsundere, I won't tell the reason because that would mean spoiling your fun :D

As for Tomoyo, she' more of a tsuntsun type than deredere so we can't really say she's tsundere. Tomoyo is a straightforward girl with a wild side to say it short (not as wild as Kyou when it comes to Tomoya though).

This is where the traditionalists and modernist split. Traditional is one-way, while modern is two-way

Geh... I'm outdated as always. Anyway mind if you explain the difference between Traditional and Modern (don't really know anything about modern type tsundere) tsundere? I'm Lazy Mode right now to search for it :heh:

Traditional: The traditional tsundere is characterized as a person that is initially cold towards another person but gradually begins to thaw and show their true self.

Modern: The new, evolved version of tsundere is a person whose emotions and feelings towards a person outwardly change frequently and may display many different personalities, sometimes to the point that can be considered as bipolar.

I see, I didn't know tsundere has a traditional type... I always thought tsundere means someone who switches from tsuntsun to deredere and deredere to tsuntsun everytime...

As I watch my prediction from a little more than 12 hours ago come true, i wonder if this will stop eventually on it's own? :(

Much more than the question if and what aspect of the-term-that-shall-henceforth-not-be-mentioned fits Kyou best, I'd be much more interested in speculations about why she shows such behaviour. Apparently, she and Tomoya have known each other for quite some time, which explains their rather open relationship. Still, why should she (who is shown to have quite the personality) shy away from telling Tomoya directly? Do you think she (as a character) might not be too certain of her feelings towards him?

I would say that her twin sister might be a major reason.

Basically, traditional is all about character development from how she changed from who she was to who she is.

Not saying modern does not possess character development, but it is more shifty. :heh:

I think it's the whole "We are already good friends, but I am afraid that confessing my feelings would ruin our friendship" thing. Modern wild tsundere is already a concept used to shade vulnerable aspects of a character with a seemingly masculine and aggressive one and judging from the OP, we can see that Kyou's clearly not all that as she's shown. C'mon, drowsing under the rain SCREAMS emotional vulnerability.

Assuming if my speculation is right, what would be more important than her tsundere facet is what being the catalyst that would push it further. There's always some form of a catalyst (( awkward situations, 3rd parties, etc )) that would somehow break the conventional denial mold, even more so when Kyou looks like she's comfortable with her current situation.

Modern or Old version, i still don't consider Kyou a tsundere. True, she has the traits almost always found in those, but simply being violent and rash does not immediately a tsundere make. Neither do hiding/denying ones feelings - that would make 80% of all people a tsundere. Is Sekai from SD a tsundere ? As it stands now, i see her just as a girl with wild personality. While her behavior is a very good setup for a tsundere, she has yet to devolve to that state in my opinion. If else fails, use my racial ability 'Hate Tsundere On Sight'. I don't dislike Kyou thus far :heh:

Aside from hiding ones feelings not being a necessary indicator of being a tsundere, there might be a lot of reasons for her not making a move on Tomoya (assuming she has a thing for him, which is true, most likely), something like Ryou possibly having a crush on him as well. As pampering of her sister as she seems to be, i doubt she would make a move on him if she knew about Ryou having a crush on him.

Hmmm, that's interesting....what would you consider a tsundere, then?

Maybe she would qualify for your definition of tsundere if she does a violent act unprovoked? One might say that she never really got violent on her own initiative, after all....somewhat like Tomoyo, we've only seen her throw dictionaries or kicks whenever provoked.

Just making a wild guess on your preference here. :p

Like I said in the episode 3 thread, I can't see Kyou as the way how "tsundere" are, be it old or "consensus" version of it.

Maybe this is because it is "my" version of Tsundere, but for me, a character which harbors such trait is not qualified like this all the time just because of being dishonest.
Most likely, being dishonest with their feelings can have its roots from anything. (and seriously, there are so much examples in anime that this "specific" trait isn't reserved for Tsundere alone)

To me, a Tsundere is rather a character who displays a fool aversion towards their interest (be it love or close friendship etc), conflicting directly with what they really feel, having such result that they are demonstrating crystal clear different behaviours.

Now, what are the difference with what i just babbled out and Kyou? Basically, Kyou (currently in the anime, of course) doesn't display any peculiar "behaviour" towards Tomoya. She is brash AND friendly in her environment, and if she is pissed, the said person will eat a) a dictionnary b) a kick c) ????
What i can see with Kyou's behaviour is rather what she is all the time with anyone.

That is absolutely not what a Tsundere is, as Tsundere are "violent" in a "cold" manner. Of course, with the huge tide of "new version" of tsundere, they tend do be harsh and brutal (physical "punishments" etc) as well.
But most of the time, their violence are a mean to draw a line, something like "don't stay close to me!". Such reaction is an attempt of "self defense" and intregrity, as they don't want to "lose" to their person of interest.

I would likely say Kyou is a Tsundere if she display such behaviour more against Tomoya, in such fashion that she prevents him to be too close to her.
However, the anime portrays her violence more likely as a "natural" hotblooded personality towards anyone.

That how i would say Kyou isn't a Tsundere.

Which is why I said Kyou have a strong tsundere aspect, but isn't a tsundere. So far, there is no indication other than that she's a sort of tomboyish hot-headed girl.

As for whether it'll bloom fully, we'll have to see.

Refer to the post that I made in the game thread, it answers all the points raised. ;)

I already know, but keeping the discussion going.

Well said; I concur. Also, I am interested in what the "catalyst" Nightengale mentioned will be - and that there will be one I have no doubt of.

Houston... we're going in circle...

Anyway, the people saying she's not tsundere is basing their assumption on an anime that has only showed 3 episode. On the other hand, the people who's trying to say she's tsundere is basing their answer through the game... That's how it goes... If KyouAni erm... KyoAni ditches her tsundere nature then fans might... Hmm... no comment... :heh:

I agree with dgreater1. I for one, can't decide if Kyou's a real tsundere or not. Maybe because I'm seeing a far more tsunderic person (Tomoyo), and she doesn't really fit the Tsun-tsun dere-dere theme, maybe if I'll see her having a crush on Sunohara or something LOL....but just for the sake of labeling Kyou, maybe I'll call her a hybrid tsundere or something :heh:

Problem with her falling in love with Sunohara is, she'll be saying "Hey, it's fun being with you, let's go out together." straight at his face, then Sunohara would go, "Oh... *blush* I... I don't know..." then Tomoyo would say "Just kidding!" after that, Sunohara would be enrage "What do you mean by that!?"... erm... that's almost saying Sunohara would be the tsundere here XD

Would take a lot of energy to manage, this girl.

What's the point of keeping the discussion though when the answer to the question is already there with no room for debate?

Not only that, more and more people are thinking Tomoyo is tsundere and another issue arises in that people are adapting an even more wrong definition of the word by focusing only on the abusive/violent nature, rather than the emotional reasoning behind what causes a tsundere to go tsun to begin with - it is a characteristic of a gap between acted out actions and feelings in mind, they act violent and sharp even though they really have a romantic feelings towards the subject at hand. Tomoyo only acts violent *if and only if* provoked hostily from someone like Sunohara and is not driven by her secret inner romantic feelings towards Sunohara.

1. It's for the people who DON'T want to read the game threads and such.

2. You're right about Tomoyo. I consider her a passive Sunao-Cool (素直 - ク―ル)

Thats your opinion, but please don't go passing it around as the undeniable truth. So far i have yet to see any arguments that would be rock solid one way or another. And yes, i have read your argument in the game thread... and all i have to say that our views what is a tsundere differ greatly in the first place, so no wonder there is no agreement to be gained here, as we are arguing different things. Klash summed up nicely what i consider to be a tsundere, and as such i don't consider her to be one.

If we all view Kyou's violent acts as her way of expressing friendliness, that will have everything solved...
By the way, someone find a video of the voice actress interview and watch the Kyou part--even the voice actress says Kyou is a wild girl. Wild =/= Tsundere
And look forward to my translation of part 3 of Maeda interview tomorrow (in FAQ), it contains his view on the Fujibayashi twins.