AnimeSuki Forum - Anime or not?

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- - Anime or not? (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=107755)

bhl88

2013-02-16 09:41

Except that overall.... Making one is suffering.

Triple_R

2013-02-16 09:46

I'd be supportive of western-made animation emulating the general style and aesthetics of anime.

The Teen Titans cartoon of several years back was akin to this. So was Avatar the Last Airbender. It would be nice to see more shows in this vein.

bhl88

2013-02-16 10:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyuu (Post 3818996)

I've dabbed a bit here and there on that article - myself.

:3

After some thought, I've found myself focusing more on the animation styles themselves. With regards to story, that's irrelevant, because you can take any story and plug it into "anime". For example, the Marvel series - despite them not turning out all that great.

When it comes to anime, it is this section that I'd actually want to improve:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anime#V...haracteristics
I started it. Many others have come along with their contributions. But it's still lacking something.

In addition, I had once advocated "Avatar: the Last Airbender" as anime. I did that based on watching just a few minutes of it. I had convinced myself of Avatar being anime -- UNTIL -- I actually watched it. This series had scenery that could rival many anime. Some of the action scenes are also just as comparable. But, when it came time for the characters exchanging dialogue... this is where I changed my mind.

Per that notion -- Avatar did not feel like anime. Great great story though. It had a more "adult" theme too; to think, there was kissing! Oooooo :p

Oddly enough. This "feeling idea". When I watched the X-Men anime -- I didn't like the idea of that one "feeling Japanese", because the X-Men themselves are Americans. Yet, they behaved like the Japanese, when handling a crisis situation. It was fine adding in a Japanese mutant though..

As for Iron Man, Mr Stark remained a brash, perverted white-boy. :heh::D

Just by looking at it, I knew that it wasn't one. But I do agree that it's the closest. Teen Titans overdid it.

RichardFromMarple

2013-02-16 11:14

I've often wondered how anime the many shows animated in Japan (with a fairly convincing Anime "feel") but written in Europe (mostly Spain & France) should be regarded.

Kudryavka

2013-02-16 11:40

Anime is animation is cartoons is アニメーション is アニメ.

If you really must make distinctions and are throwing a fit then call it "Japanese animation". And be done. In my opinion the word "anime" should not exist in the English language. It'd be like calling Japanese video games "geemu". Screw that.

That said, I consider animation commissioned and started in Japan as Japanese. Don't consider who does the grunt work, like Japanese doing inbetweening animation for American studios or Koreans doing Japanese animation work. If it is not initially made in Japan but has a healthy serving of Japanese animation flavor, then it is done in a Japanese style, but still that country's animation. And same goes for Japanese animation that imitates other country's animations, they have a different style but are still Japanese by definition of who created it.'

Panty and Stocking with Garterbelt is a Japanese animation done in an American style.

Avatar the Last Airbender is an American animation done in a Japanese style.

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles is an American animation, period. We ignore the fact that Toei (Japan) did much of its animation.

Ghost in the Shell is a Japanese animation, period. We ignore the fact that Dr Movie (South Korea) did much of its animation.

And also, styles are not exclusive to countries. Japanese style came from Japan, but anyone in the world can do it, even Japanese.

Utsuro no Hako

2013-02-16 11:47

In terms of storytelling, I think the closest thing to anime in the US are the Liquid Television series MTV did in the early '90s, notably The Maxx and Aeon Flux -- Madhouse even hired the creator of Aeon Flux to work on Reign the Conqueror.

LeoXiao

2013-02-16 13:38

IMO it's anime if the main demographic is Japanese.

bhl88

2013-02-16 13:44

Does this count?

Kudryavka

2013-02-16 13:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhl88 (Post 4556688)

Does this count?

Was it made by a Japanese company? Then yes.

That Danny Choo is not Japanese has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Triple_R

2013-02-16 13:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kudryavka (Post 4556571)

The term "anime" basically means "Japanese animation". That's probably how 99% of anime fans use the term "anime".

"Anime" is much easier to write and say than "Japanese animation" is. So what's wrong with using "anime" as a convenient shorthand for "Japanese animation"?

The word "anime" is a very useful word, and it kind of sounds cool, imo.

But I agree that Mirai Millennium is anime. Danny Choo being its Director doesn't detract from that at all - Actually, it arguably adds to it, as Choo is obviously a hardcore anime fan.

Kudryavka

2013-02-16 14:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triple_R (Post 4556698)

So what's wrong with using "anime" as a convenient shorthand for "Japanese animation"?

What's wrong is that using such a term for something that already exists in English language (animation) creates an imaginary rift between animation based on what country it's from. Such BS leads to "omg is it true anime?!?!" discussions like this, that often degenerate into sickeningly stupid country superiority contests (thankfully that does not seem to have happened here).

Look at other countries, do we see their animation as so "different", so "unique"? Why don't we have special words for Canadian animation, for French animation, for Korean animation? Why is "anime" so different from everyone else's animation?? It's not, and people should stop pretending it is.

Yes I agree that "anime" is easier to write, and without prior knowledge of the situation of the fan community I would say that characterizing different country's animation with words from their languages is absolutely fine and really cool. But unfortunately I know about the monkey poo throwing that using the term "anime" so much and no words for other countries inevitably causes.

bhl88

2013-02-16 15:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triple_R (Post 4556698)

Nothing's really wrong with it. For Japanese people, the way Americans say: "It's anime, not cartoons" is: WTF they're the same thing.

Kudryavka

2013-02-16 16:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhl88 (Post 4556765)

Nothing's really wrong with it. For Japanese people, the way Americans say: "It's anime, not cartoons" is: WTF they're the same thing.

Yes, the word "anime" just comes directly from the word "animation", which lolol omg is what makes up a cartoon.

Anime is cartoons, they are not different! :eyebrow:

bhl88

2013-02-16 19:26

lol our answers would end up being the same anyway.

Me: Anime =/= cartoons (how to explain to Japan [which doesn't segregate their anime], that both are different? *shows up a blank paper*).
You: Not different.

And you could come look at it.

hyl	2013-02-16 19:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kudryavka (Post 4556751)

For the same exact reason why people make a distinction between Brittish comedy and American comedy, Greek Tragedy and modern tragedy or Hollywood movies and bollywood movies etc.

IMO there is more to it than just differences in animation styles between animes and american cartoons, but it would rather pointless to explain that to you seeing your last few posts.

bhl88

2013-02-16 20:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by hyl (Post 4556987)

For the same exact reason why people make a distinction between British comedy and American comedy, Greek Tragedy and modern tragedy or Hollywood movies and Bollywood movies etc.

IMO there is more to it than just differences in animation styles between anime and American cartoons, but it would rather pointless to explain that to you seeing your last few posts.

In Japan, people call Superman, Dexter's Lab and whatever else 'anime'.
In here, fans (not all) separate them (and no, fans [again, not all] don't want to lump ponies, coyotes, annoying sisters who blow up labs and superheroes with Nanoha, Haruhi, Robotech, etc. :p ).

Kudryavka

2013-02-16 21:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by hyl (Post 4556987)

You misunderstand, I'm not even talking about stylistic differences or making a distinction. I acknowledged that there are differences, of course, between different styles of animation coming from different countries. Does that warrant a new name for said animation? Seeing how no other country gets the privilege of having its animation being called a special name, apparently not. There is nothing wrong with a new name alone, but the word "anime" has led to people acting like this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhl88 (Post 4557005)

In here, fans (not all) separate them (and no, fans [again, not all] don't want to lump ponies, coyotes, annoying sisters who blow up labs and superheroes with Nanoha, Haruhi, Robotech, etc. :p ).

in a snooty way. And not for all countries either, only Japanese animation. Duh, there's differences between Japanese and other countries' animations. Are the differences large enough for some people to lose their mind when someone calls an anime a "cartoon"? No.

Please understand my posts before trying to debate about something I never said.

Kirarakim

2013-02-16 21:20

Yes in Japan anime is used for all animation

But outside Japan, anime is a fan term for Japanese animation.

No one is saying because you are a fan of Japanese animation you can't also be a fan of animation from other countries but I am specifically a fan of animation from Japan so when I say I am an anime fan I do mean something very specific.

and why doesn't other countries get a specific name for their animation well for one thing no one said a special fan name can't be created for French animation, the fact that there isn't is more a reflection of the fans.

There is a huge community among fans of Japanese animation. Heck just the sheer volume of Japanese animation compared to other countries is also a factor. Is it any surprise that a special name developed for this.

Triple_R

2013-02-16 21:51

Kudryavka, here's the thing - Most adult anime fans don't want to say to their non-anime fan friends that "I'm a hardcore cartoon fan". :heh: Like it or not, "cartoon" carries a certain connotation in the west. We don't have to like it, but we do have to live with it.

And saying "I'm a hardcore animation fan" is liable to get responses like "Oh? So you're into the Pixar movies then?" or people thinking you're a poser for using 'animation' instead of 'cartoon'.

But if you say "I'm an anime fan", your non-anime fan friends may well read that as being akin to you saying "I'm a fan of foreign films". They'll probably think that makes you eccentric, but hopefully in a neat sort of way. They might even think you're more "cultured" for it, lol.

Last Sinner

2013-02-16 22:00

Actually I find one calling themselves an anime fan in the West amongst non-anime people tends to evoke one of two reactions more often than not (and these attitudes have barely changed over the last decade):

1. Oh, so you like Pokemon/Naurto/One Piece/DBZ?

2. Oh, so you like hentai...

Those are the two commonly held views, from my experience. There aren't that many willing to understand and far less that care.

Crispin Freeman once notably mentioned that a decade ago, you could mention recent titles and a good number of people in the West would know what they are, but today, mention recent titles and people are much less likely to know them. I generally find that to be true in the West. But on the flipside, back then was a weaker time for anime sales in Japan and now is their strongest, so no surprise.

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