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-   -   Steins;Gate - Spoilers & Speculation (for experienced Steins;Gate gamers only) (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=105119)

CrowKenobi 2011-06-25 01:54

Steins;Gate - Spoilers & Speculation (for experienced Steins;Gate gamers only)
 
This thread is for the experienced Steins;Gate viewer (i.e. those of you who are familiar with potentially all the light novels / manga), its purpose is to allow free discussion of theories and speculation over the Steins;Gate anime series, it therefore will contain unmarked spoilers. If you are a light novel / manga virgin of Steins;Gate, then do not read this thread unless you want to be spoiled (use the Steins;Gate - Speculation & Theories (for first time viewers)) thread.

Since posters are expected to be familiar with the light novel / manga, there is no real need for spoiler tags, but feel free to include them if you so wish.

Adding a Spoiler tag:
http://forums.animesuki.com/images/a...al/spoiler.gifJust highlight your spoiler and click the button found on the "Quick Reply" and "Reply to Thread" forms.
Make sure that you include a title that clearly identifies the specific source of the spoiler!


Finally, please remain on-topic and do not use this thread if it's just discussion about the current or previous anime episodes. Also remember that this isn't a light novel / manga discussion thread, if you do want to discuss the light novel then please use the existing thread.

erneiz_hyde 2011-06-25 15:00

Let's just start with the definition of the World-Lines.

So from what I get, the "world" and the "world-lines" in S;G can be compared as a rope, with the rope itself as the "world" and the smaller strings which intertwined to make the rope as the "world-lines".

There are almost infinite world-lines, but only ONE is 'active' at any given time. Every world-line that isn't active merely exists as "possibilities" (metaphorically, they're like computer program clauses that never got triggered because the user never input the required data). Each world-line is a world where EVERYTHING is predetermined. That is, the facts do not change even if the events are somewhat different.

If something that's not supposed to happen in that world-line happened anyway, then the world-line will shift to corresponding world-line, altering the memories of EVERYONE to match that world-line. Since the rule that everything in a world-line is predetermined, this memory-altering actually works with a lot of consistency.

Feel free to discuss.

revive4563 2011-06-26 11:13

The world of Steins;Gate is defined with the modified attractor field theory, basically.
In a word, it's the world like plural rivers. It's something like the route and the goal are the same no matter how you row a boat on the river.
So if you want to change the event, you have to jump/diverge to another river and this means you have to change the cause, based on the law of causality.
Lab members jumped (I mean as his/their subjectivity. Properly speaking, the whole world is reconstructed) to the another river only once accidentally, though of course they have no idea about the structure of the world yet (as of episode 12).

e.g. Feyris changed greatly Akiba because her family has a great causes in the town of Akiba. But they didn't jump to the another river because it was not that important for the future of the world, after all.

Spoiler for about the story:

Xcomp 2011-06-29 02:48

I was looking up the attractor field theory but couldn't seem to find anything about it. Glad to see it exists. Maybe I typed it in wrong.

I like how people are drawing comparisons with Madoka because the general idea about time travel is fairly much the same. In the end...

Spoiler for Madoka and Steins;Gate Ending:

revive4563 2011-06-29 05:57

Yes. Urobuchi said that he's a big fan of Steins;Gate.:naughty: And in my opinion, I don't like Madoka Magica because it's filling up with troll contents. It's nothing but OTAKU magnet. :nono:

Nevertheless, I don't want to say that Madoka Magica is ripoff, easily. Because a novel which has time travel factor is existed from about 300 years ago.

Spoiler for last scene of SG:

Well, even if it's no problem officially because Urobuchi is a member of Nitro+, they should've made Madoka Magica later.

Either way, it's obvious that Steins;Gate is one of the most elaborated story about time travel and Madoka Magica is not original anime series, definitely.:D

Oh, and I don't know "attractor field theory" is really correct as the term. Because there is a Japanese version only.

Solace 2011-06-29 08:45

SG is all about the time travel. Madoka Magica is not. Homura's fight to save Madoka is a big element of the story, but the time travel stuff doesn't really come into play until near the end. On the other hand you know right from the start that time travel is the primary story device in Steins.

Okarin and Homura are similar, but dig a little further back and you can see how both are similar in their story to Furude Rika of Higurashi fame. All three characters had to deal with a repetition of fate while trying to save the ones they love.

Forbin 2011-06-29 14:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xcomp (Post 3671396)
I was looking up the attractor field theory but couldn't seem to find anything about it. Glad to see it exists. Maybe I typed it in wrong.

I like how people are drawing comparisons with Madoka because the general idea about time travel is fairly much the same. In the end...

Spoiler for Madoka and Steins;Gate Ending:

Sorry Xcomp
Spoiler:

Xcomp 2011-06-30 20:48

That was to save Mayuri though. After that it was to "fool the world" and making sure the time travel documents were destroyed.

So... No good links to the attractor field theory?

metronome 2011-07-05 13:31

Right now playing the PSP version
trying to get all of the endings with other girls(basically, skipping all of the dialog,s and then don't use the phone to get to the 1% divergence)

saw the true ending already, and I think it doesnt make sense....

Forbin 2011-07-05 18:25

The true ending makes Tons of sense except for the Suzuha disappearing scene. That made no sense.

velocity7 2011-07-05 19:32

It'll probably be re-done for the anime, but we'll see in time. I liked how they re-did Suzuha re-introducing herself as John Titor; it came off as her being more confident in her knowledge of the future, as opposed to the game where she was in a bit of a scramble.

NaweG 2011-07-05 19:48

But if you think about it, ALL VNs are a multi-world story in one sense or another. You are picking different decisions which lead to different outcomes. In that sense, you could almost call Steins;Gate a "pure" VN in that it talks directly about the physical realities that are behind the structure of a VN. IOW, Steins;Gate is a VN that actually explores what it would be like to be a protagonist in a world where you could REALLY see all your paths...

Xcomp 2011-07-06 06:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by velocity7 (Post 3680252)
It'll probably be re-done for the anime, but we'll see in time. I liked how they re-did Suzuha re-introducing herself as John Titor; it came off as her being more confident in her knowledge of the future, as opposed to the game where she was in a bit of a scramble.

Yeah, some of the additions like the rope analogy this week helps clear things up a lot more than the VN.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forbin (Post 3680198)
The true ending makes Tons of sense except for the Suzuha disappearing scene. That made no sense.

Disappearing...? When was that...? During the time Okabe was hospitalised after faking Kurisu's death?

Quote:

Originally Posted by NaweG (Post 3680276)
But if you think about it, ALL VNs are a multi-world story in one sense or another. You are picking different decisions which lead to different outcomes. In that sense, you could almost call Steins;Gate a "pure" VN in that it talks directly about the physical realities that are behind the structure of a VN. IOW, Steins;Gate is a VN that actually explores what it would be like to be a protagonist in a world where you could REALLY see all your paths...

Well yeah but... Since this is a story revolving around time travel it shouldn't be hard for them to cover all the endings and make Okabe leap back to continue towards the true ending. Whereas in the other VNs (mostly dating sims), they're not centred around time travel so it would be harder.

erneiz_hyde 2011-07-06 07:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xcomp (Post 3680826)
Yeah, some of the additions like the rope analogy this week helps clear things up a lot more than the VN.

Really? The rope analogy was the first thing that came in my mind when playing the VN the first time. Actually I think I can almost swear Suzuha mentioned it, but I'm not too sure either.(I only finished the game about three months ago to prepare for the anime, but I did Suzuha's route since last year already)

erneiz_hyde 2011-07-07 17:50

So, I'll take a quote from the ep.14 thread
Quote:

Originally Posted by Eater of All (Post 3682723)
Something tells me that Okarin's fever might be a conspiracy or a deliberate attempt by someone to instill this Reading Steiner ability into him (maybe someone left behind before the world shifted?). Or maybe he has always had this innate ability in him, and it took a beta/alpha world shift to awaken it. *shrug* It's too great a coincidence.

could it be that the "awakened" Okarin sometime in the future managed to make a time-leap machine that can be used to send memories even further than the one we currently have?

So this Okarin sent his memories to his kid self, but the transfer wasn't perfect (maybe because he's still a kid) so only his Reading Steiner and few bits of unconscious knowledge that got transferred.

in the VN, Okarin was shot in the arm prior to his first time-leap. It was in the same spot where Okarin often say there's an evil seal (which he asked Ruka to exorcise). It may be a red-herring, since it's said he switched the evil-sealed arm often, but it coincides real well. It could be the aftereffects of being shot in the arm left a lingering impression in him and it got transferred when he did the time-leap.

MaiNoKen 2011-07-10 14:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde (Post 3682796)
So, I'll take a quote from the ep.14 thread


could it be that the "awakened" Okarin sometime in the future managed to make a time-leap machine that can be used to send memories even further than the one we currently have?

So this Okarin sent his memories to his kid self, but the transfer wasn't perfect (maybe because he's still a kid) so only his Reading Steiner and few bits of unconscious knowledge that got transferred.

in the VN, Okarin was shot in the arm prior to his first time-leap. It was in the same spot where Okarin often say there's an evil seal (which he asked Ruka to exorcise). It may be a red-herring, since it's said he switched the evil-sealed arm often, but it coincides real well. It could be the aftereffects of being shot in the arm left a lingering impression in him and it got transferred when he did the time-leap.

What you point out is interesting.

My interpretation of the ending chapter is that Okabe (of the future) has probably never done that. If Okabe of the future knows what will happen, he would have probably prevent the whole fiasco to have even started (like send my messages back in time to try to stop the microwave from being created from the beginning). In fact, the ending of Steins;Gate has never voided the the ability of the microwave to send D-Mail.

My interpretation of what you point is different: one of the recurring themes of Steins;Gate is "be careful what you wish for". Okabe delusions for a conspiracy, and he gets exactly that. He dreams he is fighting that conspiracy, and he just becomes like that. I think the arm getting shot thing is simply reinforcement to that theme. Of course, good fiction always allows reader/viewer for some open interpretation :)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Solace
SG is all about the time travel. Madoka Magica is not. Homura's fight to save Madoka is a big element of the story, but the time travel stuff doesn't really come into play until near the end. On the other hand you know right from the start that time travel is the primary story device in Steins.

Okarin and Homura are similar, but dig a little further back and you can see how both are similar in their story to Furude Rika of Higurashi fame. All three characters had to deal with a repetition of fate while trying to save the ones they love.

Quote:

Originally Posted by revive4563
Yes. Urobuchi said that he's a big fan of Steins;Gate. And in my opinion, I don't like Madoka Magica because it's filling up with troll contents. It's nothing but OTAKU magnet

Spoiler for Madoka x Steins:


I personally do not think Madoka is a rip off from Steins (even I am well aware of the similarity when I saw episode 10 in Madoka). I think you can both have borrowed some ideas of work even predate both.

Some comparisons for the story between Steins and Madoka:

I think Madoka is more depressing than Steins. The depression level of Steins tanked when Mayuri getting killed over and over again and Amane (or Daru daughter or FB's wife or whatever) depressing letter. Even through depressing moments, Steins still make fan jokes. Madoka simply depresses all the way from episode 3 to quite literally the end. The mood of Madoka reminds me Her the Ultimate Weapon and Hitchcock films... while Steins reminds me James Bond and Back to the Future (a combination of humor and being serious).

Madoka's plot is also more compact. Steins plot does contains quite a bit of fillers. There are many deliberate side references to Otaku culture (which Madoka is absent of it, well may there is some like that part Madoka eats her bread in ep 1), and Akiha/Feris story can probably cut off if they want to keep the plot lean.

Forbin 2011-07-12 13:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xcomp (Post 3680826)
Disappearing...? When was that...? During the time Okabe was hospitalised after faking Kurisu's death?

Right, (Techincally right after Kurisu is put in the blood)
Suzuha changing the timeline back to 1% should not have caused her to disappear. She just would not return to her timeframe.

Klashikari 2011-08-16 14:57

Episode 20 was... well, not really to my liking considering the changes they have made.
Putting Nae aside, didn't they screw a bit Braun's characterization?
It has been a while I didn't read S;G, but I'm certain he was more like regretting using Moeka and betraying Suzu's trust by doing SERN's bidding.

What's more is that, objectively speaking, Braun had no real reason to kill Moeka even in the anime, considering he was ready to kill himself anyway, so there wasn't really any duty for him to kill Moeka.
Of course, I realize they tried to kill Moeka in that fashion so they would be able to skip Nae's tidbit, it is definitely odd to say the least.

Anyone can confirm that train of thought? The more I think about it, the more I can't help but think they did a MAJOR retcon here, similarly to the purpose of the IBN5100 to begin with.

Kusa-San 2011-08-16 17:22

Can someone tell me why Nae want to kill Okarin so badly ?

Riga92 2011-08-16 17:26

Because Nae believes that Okabe, along with Moeka, was one of the people who influenced Mr. Braun to commit suicide, even if that wasn't their intention. Once Nae learned that in the future, well she went psycho.


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