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Pellissier 2011-07-26 06:36

Steins;Gate - Episode 17 Discussion / Poll
 
Welcome to the discussion thread for Steins;Gate, Episode 17.

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Midonin 2011-07-26 14:04

S;G 17 - And if we just believe it, there is a waking dream that grows

Or, as I shall think of it, "Reclaimed! The Paradise of Nerds ~Beyond the World Line, Parent and Child~".

Moving on.

The transition to the OP was very well done.

Very Feris, or should I say, Rumiho-centric episode. A perfect example of the butterfly effect too. So Feris' wish those many months ago wasn't to take the moe out of Akiba - she seems fond of it in this timeline too. A hobby is just a hobby. But putting her dad back in the picture somehow removes it. Painful on her end, but Rumiho is the type to keep her spirits up no matter what the scenario. And Rintaro and Kurisu's idea is exceedingly simple. To undo what's been done, undo what's been done.

Though next on the list of people to undo is Ruka. This should be interesting.

Endgame, start.

creb 2011-07-26 14:38

I love this show. I do.

I generally don't mind forcing a plot in one direction or another. That's what fiction is when you boil it down to brass and bolts.

However, this is just dumb. If you are going to use D-Mail to undo all those previous D-Mails, wouldn't it be far simpler to send one D-Mail to the past telling yourself not to let all those others (ie: Feyris) send a D-mail in the first place?

I know. I know. Doing that would be boring. So now we have Okabe doing this convoluted attempt to revert those D-mails one at a time. Which is more interesting from a story-telling point of view. I get that. But, they really should have come up with a clever reason why he can't simply send a D-Mail saying "Don't let anyone send a D-mail", or better yet, "Don't develop a time machine".

Oh well. At least Suzahu died thinking she was successful this time around.

Lastly, are we to assume it is possible to remember events from another worldline without the "Reading Steiner" ability? ie: Feyris. Or is Feyris a special case?

Reckoner 2011-07-26 14:44

Another very good episode. Feryis is a really good person. She sacrificed her new found happiness for the sake of Okabe and Mayuri. That says a lot about her character...

However, I felt this episode was a little weaker than the string we've received lately, though not by much so 8/10.

Quote:

Originally Posted by creb (Post 3704629)
However, this is just dumb. If you are going to use D-Mail to undo all those previous D-Mails, wouldn't it be far simpler to send one D-Mail to the past telling yourself not to let all those others (ie: Feyris) send a D-mail in the first place?

This is demonstrating you haven't understood the mechanism of time travel up to this point. Okabe can't stop anyone from sending D-mails in his time line because the very action of sending the D-Mail never actually happened.

What Okabe and Kurisu are doing is sending a 2nd D-mail to cancel out the other one. Because in their current time line the person in question received the message, but the person who sent the message never actually sent it in that time line. That is why they can cancel it out with another message, but they cannot stop the message being received in the first place.

GDB 2011-07-26 14:45

Wow, what a troll pre-opening. Confirms Kurisu is alive and fine, Okabe thinking about how he saved Mayuri, and then... "That's strange, Mayuri's watch isn't working..."

Feyris is an odd one. Seems she has the Reading Steiner in some capacity as well. Poor Feyris, though. Having to choose between friends and family. I got pretty choked up at her last words to her dad. At least she got to change that part.

Oh yeah, just thought of something. How did Okabe manage to use the Time Leap without Suzuha there to distract and take down Moeka's group? I can only assume he started activating it before they even burst in, though it didn't appear that way. It's the only way it makes sense.

Quote:

Originally Posted by creb (Post 3704629)
However, this is just dumb. If you are going to use D-Mail to undo all those previous D-Mails, wouldn't it be far simpler to send one D-Mail to the past telling yourself not to let all those others (ie: Feyris) send a D-mail in the first place?

That only works if they sent that D-Mail in the current timeline, which as of now very few still exist. There was the one Kyouma sent to himself about Suzuha, and possibly the one he sent to himself for the Lotto ticket. The rest occurred only in other timelines, so sending a D-Mail saying they can't do it won't work. Okabe said as much in this episode in regards to Feyris's D-Mail.

Riga92 2011-07-26 14:53

That opening, well it just blew everyone's speculation that Kurisu is dead and that Mayuri was saved :heh:

Kurisu theorizes that in order to retrieve the IBN5100, they have to undo the previous D-mails. Suzuha's D-mail was undone, so Feyris was next.

Through the various chasing events, Okabe somehow makes Feyris remember about the previous worldline before Feyris killed moe. We then discover that she sent a D-mail to save her father's life from a plane crash. Specifically, she sent a D-mail saying that she was kidnapped and that the kidnappers demanded a 100 million yen ransom.

Feyris accepts that her life up until now was a dream and agrees to send another D-mail to cancel the other. The divergence went up from 0.4 to 0.45.

Good episode, although they cut down a lot of detail on Feyris' chapter.

This episode now opens the question, do other people also have the Reading Steiner ability like Okabe? If Feyris was able to remember, then that must mean the others might have it as well.

pampz21 2011-07-26 14:55

Spoiler for Speculation:

wandering-dreamer 2011-07-26 15:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by pampz21 (Post 3704648)
Spoiler for Speculation:

Spoiler:

Riga92 2011-07-26 15:11

This episode also marks the branching point for Feyris' ending in the VN. Here's the video. This ending is also a bit depressing...



Spoiler for Feyris' Ending Summary:

pampz21 2011-07-26 15:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by wandering-dreamer (Post 3704657)
Spoiler:

Spoiler for ....:

Saturn Beaver 2011-07-26 15:38

The cold open was trolltastic indeed, one of the speculation last episode was that Kurisu was the one dead instead since she wasn't seen...and it raises our hopes by showing her, yet immediately after we heard the ol' dead watch again. At that point all I can think about is nononono-BAM. Nice transition though, with just a sound it tells everything we already knew and need to know without replaying scenes again.

About the Feyris/Rumiho episodes, I'm of two minds about it. I love that it really gives characterization to Feyris, and I'd be lying if her whole dilemma didn't touch my heart strings in any way. And yet...I feel like it's a bit forced, that it can all be avoided somehow. First off, the whole bitter card game enemy sets up an ambush thing. I expect this from Yu-Gi-Oh, but here's it seems a bit much. I mean, sure it's the Grand Championship and all, but it's still just a card game. Getting angry I can see, but running around the city just to get her? The phone implies that there's a deeper reason than that, probably a pervert behind it all, but it all just seem too sudden without any foreshadowing, all to make Okarin the savior of Feyris.

But more than that, I'm confused as to why won't Feyris at least try to let Okarin exhaust some other possibilities as well. All they needs to was to not let her Dad get into the plane, maybe try another way to avoid his death? Like maybe emailing the airport crew to check the plane to avoid accidents, or at least email him to let her open a maid cafe? You know, try to keep it as close to the original timeline with the sole exception of his Dad still being alive.

Well, in any case, thanks to Kurisu's thinking (seriously, I love that girl) we know have some sort of idea as to how to proceed. Next is to find the IBN, I wonder how they're going to do that? Obviously they can't contact Moeka to know her D-Mail, so next is Ruka? Does that mean the previously untrapped Ruka is going to be re-trapped now?

Kanon 2011-07-26 15:40

So Kurisu was just fine after all. I scared myself over nothing :heh:

Interesting that Feyris managed to remember the previous timeline. This raises the question of whether other people could do the same if Okabe pointed them in the right direction, or if Feyris is simply special (does this only happen to eccentric people like her and Okabe? :eyespin: ). Anyway, the "ability" she displayed is different from the Reading Steiner, as she retained memories from both world lines.

I really love Feyris. She's a very fun girl, and above all, a true and loyal friend. She sacrificed her father and a some of her own happiness in order to save Mayuri. Few people would have done that.

Next one on the list is Ruka's D-mail, but I don't think there's any need to cancel it. I'm putting it under tags since speculations seem to annoy a few people:

Spoiler for speculation:


Quote:

Originally Posted by Riga92 (Post 3704665)
This episode also marks the branching point for Feyris' ending in the VN. Here's the video. This ending is also a bit depressing...

Spoiler for Feyris' Ending Summary:

Damn, that is depressing.

GDB 2011-07-26 15:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saturn Beaver (Post 3704687)
The phone implies that there's a deeper reason than that, probably a pervert behind it all

Oh, you didn't get the innuendo the boss was talking about? They were going to kidnap her and then rape and/or torture her until she broke. Then, they'd keep her as their toy. Well, maybe not "they", but the boss anyway. That's what he meant by corrupting her, filling/covering her with darkness, or whatever words he used.

Riga92 2011-07-26 15:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saturn Beaver (Post 3704687)
But more than that, I'm confused as to why won't Feyris at least try to let Okarin exhaust some other possibilities as well. All they needs to was to not let her Dad get into the plane, maybe try another way to avoid his death?

Maybe there are other possibilities, but Feyris' ending proves that Okabe taking a third option may not end completely well if they don't send a D-mail that completely cancels the previous D-mail.

Saturn Beaver 2011-07-26 16:06

Oh yeah, I forgot about Feyris' ability to somewhat remember past events, just like Kyouma's Reading Steiner...I wonder if that' special to Feyris, or does anyone have it to varying degrees. What I meant by the latter is that Okarin took her to May Queen, as well as filling her in with other details, and that may be what causes her to remember a bit. So, it doesn't have anything to do with her specifically, that if Okarin were to do something similar (say, showing Ruka things that makes her remember she uses to be a boy) other people will remember vaguely too even if they forgot it at first.

And yet, the whole close up on her eyes, that she seems to remember her adventure in this episode by what she says at the end of the episode, as well as what Kanon said of how her ability is a bit different than Reading Steiner by how she remembers both timeline...this one may be more plausible too. I just hope that just because we're done with her story, she won't show up again in future stories. Her -nyan suffix can be really annoying, but she's still a good girl and interesting character.

Oh, and I just realizes this; if you pause at the right moment when Okarin time leaps to two days ago and try to find Feyris, the time counter says 2011 AD as opposed to the usual 2010. If this a mistake of the animator's part, or is this a totally out of nowhere twist? I hope it's the former, as it directly contradicts what Suzuha said about time travel only going to the past as well as the capabilities of the Time Leap Machine, making this whole thing not making any sense, even for a time travel story...

Elestia 2011-07-26 16:08

I felt the direction of this episode was really lacking compared to Suzuha's ending. It might have been because of the idiotic chase sequence that really diffused the character exposition behind Feyris' D-Mail (some really quality issues during that entire scene too). It would probably been better if they had cut out that scene out all together and focused entirely on Feyris. Although, the end managed to hit the high notes of my heart strings.

Rumi-... Feyris blushing and falling in love with Okabe seemed a bit forced, since we rarely had episode where she was actually present. It was still cute though.

I can already see the pattern once Kurisu brought up the theory of canceling out past D-Mails. So next one is gonna be re-trapping Ruka-chan to Ruka-kun? I am conflicted and ambivalent about the matter. :(

ars89 2011-07-26 16:08

WTF stop killing Mayuri i can't take it. So the plan now is to undue all the dmails. That means Ruka is next. So how did Feyris remember sending the dmail. Does she also have reading steiner? Very hard for to make that decision, but shows her true character. Interesting that Suzuha did give it to her dad but he had to sell it off. Couldn't Okarin just ask him to remember who he sold it to, i know easier said than done.

Saturn Beaver 2011-07-26 16:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by GDB (Post 3704696)
Oh, you didn't get the innuendo the boss was talking about? They were going to kidnap her and then rape and/or torture her until she broke. Then, they'd keep her as their toy. Well, maybe not "they", but the boss anyway. That's what he meant by corrupting her, filling/covering her with darkness, or whatever words he used.

Yeah, there are other people talking and other things happening when the person is talking on the phone, so I kind of tuned out and doesn't really pay attention to his ramblings, but on rewatch I agree with what you're saying. What a creep, thankfully he seems to be busted by the cops at the end too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riga92 (Post 3704697)
Maybe there are other possibilities, but Feyris' ending proves that Okabe taking a third option may not end completely well if they don't send a D-mail that completely cancels the previous D-mail.

I suppose we all know that there's no other option, but it just seems that she gave up too easily there. Sure, she likes Mayushii too, and in a way she knows that's what really happens, but when even Okarin is offering to look for another way...well, I suppose that's her character.

DasDingus 2011-07-26 18:07

Is it just me or did the boss guy on the phone sound a lot like Daru? He does seem to have an almost stalker-ish fixation on Feyris. Maybe I'm just hearing things and those guys never show up again but it stood out to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saturn Beaver (Post 3704715)
when Okarin time leaps to two days ago and try to find Feyris, the time counter says 2011 AD as opposed to the usual 2010.

I noticed that as well and was equally confused as to why the year changed.

Riga92 2011-07-26 18:21

The time counter was probably just a screw up on the animator's part. It should still be 2010.


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