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-   -   Animesuki Choice Award Poll (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=107211)

Haak 2011-09-30 13:28

Animesuki Choice Award Poll
 
Hello everyone. As you may know every year we've been holding a competition called the Animesuki Choice Awards, where people can vote for the best anime airing that year. At the end of the 2010 Choice Awards we had a number of suggestions on how to improve the Awards for 2011 and after a lot of discussion on each topic we decided that it would be best to put these suggestions up for a vote (In other words, we couldn't agree on any of them). As you can see there are a lot of choices but don't be too daunted. It should only take about a few minutes at most to consider each option.
As you can see it's a multiple choice poll where you can vote for more than one option and don't have to vote for every option. You simply tick the choice you'd like.

We found that there are essentially two main factions within the Animesuki community when suggesting improvements for the Choice Awards. There are those that argue that there are too many categories and the number needs to be minimised and there are those who want more categories added because they believe there are certain categories that deserve to be celebrated. Here are two versions could the Choice Awards that you can choose between.

Version A - Minimalistic (16)
Spoiler for space:


Version B - Extended (28)
Spoiler for space:


However we understand that it is not all black and white. Whilst some may prefer there to be less categories we understand that not all the changes made for the Minimalistic version would be preferable. Similarly those who advocate for more categories would not necessarily want all the categories added from the Extended version. There may even be some who support the Minimalistic idea but would still advocate the inclusion of certain new categories. This is why the following choices have also been included in the poll, since this will allow us to gain a better idea of what would be preferred in the next Choice Awards:
Spoiler for space:


It is important that you vote for the ones you would prefer, regardless of which Version you chose. This is important since due to the poll format not voting for an option effectively counts as voting against it . For example, if many people were to vote for the Extended version but forget to vote for Adding a [Setting] category, this could lead to the assumption that those who would like the Extended version do not want a Setting category.

To help you decide we have provided a summary of the positions put forward in our discussions on each of the choices, group into four topics.

The Status Quo
A vote for “Support the Status Quo” means that you would like the categories to be exactly the same as how they were in the 2010 Choice Awards. Unfortunately I wasn't able to put this choice in the poll due to restrictions so please post to indicate this option.

Proposed changes to Sci-fi /Fantasy and Drama section:
Spoiler for space:


Proposed changes to the Production Elements section
Spoiler for space:


Proposed changes to the Individual Character section
Spoiler for space:


Thank you for your time and feel free to discuss any of the topics here. If there are any other suggestions you’d like to make then please feel free to make them.

Previous Winners:
2010 Winners
2009 Winners
2008 Winners
2007 Winners

Sheba 2011-09-30 13:44

My "french" need to clearly seperate "genres" is heavily against the move to merge sci-fi with fantasy. When I say sci-fi, I think Deus EX, Macross or steins;gate. When I say fantasy, I think Conan the Barbarian, Tolkien, Moorcock and A Song of Ice and Fire. And yeah, remove "Worst Character". We have enough "hate" threads as it is.

Kyuu 2011-09-30 14:52

Let's go Mimimalistic, with a few addons. (Mispelling done on purpose) :3

Fewer the categories. Having 28 categories is way too much. Why else are the real award shows ever becoming more irrelevant? The more pressure to get certain winners. Greater chance of butthurt. Oh, and Keep "Worst Character".

Kaioshin Sama 2011-09-30 15:15

I'd say minimalistic, but my main problem with that is that it merges several genres that aren't necessarily inseparable like drama/romance and Sci-Fi/Fantasy and yet keeps incredibly vague pseudo-genres like "slice of life" as their own seperate entity for some reason. As such I'd have to pick extended just because it handles each category a little better a little better in my eyes.

SeijiSensei 2011-09-30 15:29

Just a few quick comments.

1) Drama is drama. It shouldn't be combined with any other category. House of Five Leaves and Hyouge Mono are both dramas, though neither have much romance, nor are they tragedies. (HM could have tragic moments down the road; at the moment, we've only got seven episodes to work with.)

2) I didn't see the option for having separate "best adaptation" and "best original" productions in the poll. I vote for having both. There are quite a few original productions this year, though we'll need to be careful to make sure shows are classified correctly.

3) I also think OP/ED songs need to be treated separately from scores. I'll be nominating the score for Hyouge Mono, but the (current) OP isn't much to write home about. (The original OP may deserve a nomination, but it was pulled by NHK after episode four when one of the performers was arrested for marijuana possession.)

4) I'm very mixed about merging fantasy and science-fiction. The best argument in favor of a merger is the small number of shows in these categories.

5) I will strongly reiterate my position that people be prohibited from nominating a show in more than one genre category. That just leads to the most popular shows dominating in multiple categories. A single show should be eligible for nomination in one genre category and one of the "best of" categories, but that's it. (Obviously the same show can appear in one or more production categories as well.)

6) I voted for the "supporting" categories, though they're probably the ones that should be axed first. The "worst character" category is useless and should be dumped.

The biggest issue that hasn't been addressed is the time period involved. We've used calendar years in the past, which has proven problematic when considering two-cour shows that premiere in the fall. Some have suggested starting with the fall and extending through the next summer, following the US model of a television year. I had a discussion about anime "seasons" over on ANN not long ago, and one contributor thought that it made more sense to follow the Japanese school year which begins in the spring. That would mean waiting until April to begin the "2011" Awards process. For this transition year, we'd need to include shows that were released over the 15-month period starting on 1/1/2011 and ending on 3/31/2012. After that we'd just run from April to April.

Here are some data for your consideration:

http://www.takinganimeseriously.com/...-2010-2011.jpg

These are taken from AniDB (2010 data), including only non-hentai television series with "synonyms" excluded. I re-counted April, 2011, three times to convince myself there were really fifty new series released that month. April to April makes quite a bit of sense given these data.

Kudos to you for carrying on this fine tradition, Haak!

Archon_Wing 2011-09-30 15:46

Extended; IMO, it's less likely to leave people out.

Also... worst character. Hmm, nah, someone needs to be crowned twice before it ends.
/hater

Just kidding; this year has far worse characters. :heh:

Also, OP/ED would rock

Kyuu 2011-09-30 15:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing (Post 3786336)
Also... worst character. Hmm, nah, someone needs to be crowned twice before it ends.
/hater

If that happens, I will lecture on how all of you are bad people! Oh very bad indeed. XD

Flower 2011-09-30 15:49

Most of the ideas thus far I agree with, esp as expressed by Seiji:

I like the idea of a OP/ED section separate from the OST/score for a series.

I would also prefer a minimalistic collection of categories.

I would like to see the "Worst Character" category removed.

But I would vote against merging fantasy and sci fi. To me as well they are two very separate categories.

****

All that being said, there's no reason we can't change things next year if something does not work out very well. :)

Archon_Wing 2011-09-30 15:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyuu (Post 3786339)
If that happens, I will lecture on how all of you are bad people! Oh very bad indeed. XD

That's not really news though...

Actually, if I wanted to cement myself as a bad person, i'd vote Kaiji for comedy. :heh:

Konakaga 2011-09-30 15:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing (Post 3786336)
Extended; IMO, it's less likely to leave people out.

Also, OP/ED would rock

I agree for extended I think it would work better. Worst Character I don't particularly care if it's there or not :heh:.

OP/ED I guess could be good.

Reckoner 2011-09-30 16:22

I definitely say extended, but I'm also for cutting down on categories that don't make sense.

First of all I'm not sure why there is a slice of life category. No one even agrees on what that term even means so why not just combine it with the drama category? I also think romance should be combined with the drama category, but that's just me.

Sci-fi and fantasy should never, ever be the same genre. They're two completely different things.

If we are to separate TV series from movies, OVA's should be separated from movies as well. Some OVA's have high production values comparable to films, but I would think that most do not.

I like the idea of an OP/ED category, as well as adaption and original stories.

I also like the calendar date proposal that Seiji pointed out. I only half agree with his claim that a show be prohibited form being nominated in more than one genre. I would say two as many shows are multiple genres so it's a fair compromise I would think.

Also why not add categories like best VA, best director, etc. if you really want to model it after the academy awards.

Triple_R 2011-09-30 16:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei (Post 3786326)

5) I will strongly reiterate my position that people be prohibited from nominating a show in more than one genre category. That just leads to the most popular shows dominating in multiple categories. A single show should be eligible for nomination in one genre category and one of the "best of" categories, but that's it. (Obviously the same show can appear in one or more production categories as well.)

I'm very much inclined to agree with this. Either that, or limit to two genre categories per anime should extended win out, in line with Reck's suggestion.

I'm very much against sci-fi and fantasy being fused together. On the whole, I prefer extended over minimalist, mainly for the reasons that Kaioshin expressed.

SeijiSensei 2011-09-30 16:45

Well, let's take the obvious contender for big winner in this year's Awards, Madoka Magica. How many genre categories should that qualify for?

-{A1}- [Action/Adventure] - maybe
-{A2}- [Fantasy] - yes
-{A3}- [Sci-Fi] - maybe
-{A4}- [Mystery/Horror] - yes
-{A5}- [Comedy] - no
-{A6}- [Drama/Tragedy] - yes
-{A7}- [Romance] - no (yuri shippers be damned)
-{A8}- [Slice of Life] - no
-{A9}- [Fanservice/Ecchi/Moe] - maybe
-{A0}- [Sports/Game/Hobby] - no

Many "mystery/horror" shows can also be regarded as "fantasies" as well as "dramas," and it's not hard to conceive of many of them falling into "action/adventure" as well.

One solution to this is to impose genre categories before the nominating process by executive fiat. We'd provide the list of eligible shows categorized by genres. That still lets people nominate their favorites, but would provide more structure than we have now. As for who should exert this fiat, perhaps the moderators, or maybe Haak himself since he seems up for the task of carrying this on.

If that smacks too much of fascism, then I submit that my original suggestion of one genre nomination per show provides a democratic method with reasonable structure. Two is the absolute upper limit in my mind.

Sphire 2011-09-30 17:28

Let's see, I think I voted for:

Minimalistic, combine fantasy with sci-fi, add an OP/ED soundtrack, seperate visual animation for TV series, remove worst character, and add supporting character.

So in truth, my number of preferred categories would fall in between minimalistic and extended. I think the extended one given has way too many categories.

I think sci-fi can be merged with fantasy, mostly because I don't think there are many shows for each specifically. Although I'm not adverse to separating them. I do question why action/adventure aren't separated? That way you can separate which shows have purely good action moments, and which have purely good adventure moments. If a show happens to have both, then it can run in both. Case in point, last year I felt Katanagatari was great with its adventure elements, but not so much with its action elements. Plus I think each genre has a good deal of shows too. As an example for this year, PMMM might be nominated for its action elements, but it has no adventure element to it. Heck adventure would merge better with fantasy I feel.

I vote for separating drama from romance too. In fact, I think romance shouldn't be considered a genre at all, simply because it overlaps with so many other genres. I'd prefer a 'best romance portrayal in anime' sort of thing, that way viewers will see that regardless of genre, which show had the best romance/s in it. I don't think you should limit drama to tragedies either.

An OP/ED choice would be nice. Even separating OPs and EDs would be good to me. BGM on the other hand, do people really take notice? Whats to stop that from being a popularity vote, I don't tend to notice BGMs myself.

I don't care for a action/battle animation category, a general one should be fine. At first I thought you meant a 'best fight scene of the year' or something, which kinda sounds cool and feeds the anime geek in me. With others like 'best shock/surprise of the year' and 'best dialogue/speech of the year' and 'best gag of the year' and 'most tear-jerking moment of the year' and others culminating in 'best moment of the year' sorta thing. But again, that may be too many categories, and I might be the only one who would like those, heh. Plus, some spoilers too almost guaranteed.

For storyline, I don't see a reason to separate original from adaptations. Just put a notice beside each show so people know if anything.

And no worse character please. Pointless category is pointless.

As for the calender thing, I have no issue with just using shows that ended in 2011. Going to April 2012, you'd then be including 1-cour winter shows, meaning it'll be more a best of 2011/2012 thing. Plus you lose 2-cour winter shows anyway that get pushed onto 2012/2013 awards (or are there none of those?), so there's always a lost. Bakuman wasn't eligible last year, but is this year, and I don't see the problem with that.

Long post but those are my thoughts.

Edit: Forgot about the one show per genre thing. Can't say I like that, should allow for 2 and maybe 3 if it has a strong enough element. I wouldn't mind if a consensus was done by voting or something as to what genre some shows are eligible for. But limiting each to 1, when they clearly cover more than 1, seems unfair.

felix 2011-09-30 17:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei (Post 3786326)
1) Drama is drama. It shouldn't be combined with any other category. House of Five Leaves and Hyouge Mono are both dramas, though neither have much romance, nor are they tragedies. (HM could have tragic moments down the road; at the moment, we've only got seven episodes to work with.)

Just to clear things up, it's not a "Drama-Romance" category it's a "Drama/Romance" category. Meaning a show can be a drama or a romance or both. I suppose it would be more acceptable if instead of drama/romance we just used a umbrella term that didn't refer to a genre; then again it might come off as presumptuous, as well as cause all sorts of other issues. The idea is you can take a drama and a romance and put them on the same scale (easily) since there are a lot of values shared between them. We're not saying that's the best way it should be done, it's just one the better ways to minimize the number of categories with out removing categories some people might enjoy, so we end up with fewer; as people requested numerous times. Of course people still want fewer and yet at the same time ALL, which is contradictory, hence why the consequences of both extreme were give you, to be able to form a good idea of just what it (might) involve and pick the one you like (or hate less :heh:).

The same principle applies to other categories such as Fantasy/Sci-Fi. Or, to give ones that weren't questioned: Sport/Hobby/Game, or Fanservice/Echii/Moe (or from last year Fantasy/Adventure). In a way it's also a bit more accessible and makes for a more exciting competition, but that's a different debate altogether.

Of course, it's all put to vote, whatever people choose is what will be used. But the versions will dictate what will be used as base, and a few choices who's only Con was "but then we'll have too many" (ie. those that are dictated directly by the version's principles). Of course any suggestions will be considered, just not in this iteration, unless Haak veto's it in. Personally all of us are/were for vote decides. We could argue for ages, if the majority wants it they'll get it. Look at the Worst Character section, you'd think after all the debates, whining and whatnot you'd have this great majority against it but currently the votes (including yours) are Keep. :)

Quote:

Many "mystery/horror" shows can also be regarded as "fantasies" as well as "dramas,"
No, they can't. You're using the "imaginary situation" definition for fantasy, the category in question is using the "fantastic" definition. If it were just "imaginary situation" then ANY genre would be a fantasy. It could just be called Fiction if you like. Also yes, many categories could be combined together, but we want to keep the choice simple and easy. Think of it this way, a Sci-Fi show where YOU don't give a rats ass about the science in it is no different then a fantasy (by the definition of Sci-fi you would have to have the main plot circle "the consequences of science" which hardly ever happens in anime). Similarly a Romance where you could care less about the actual romance is not that different from a drama. Also it helps filter out some shows, ie. people might be less inclined to vote some two cent romance (which lets face it pretty much every anime has it) in something like a comedy show that merely involves: boy meets girl, meets panties, kiss after 26 episodes (or as some have mentioned some shipping fest).

Again, the light shines at both ends of the tunnel; so vote or flipping a coin is pretty much the best option here. Since vote empowers the community, vote it is.

broken270 2011-09-30 17:36

Movie and OVA should split since they are two separate things. OP and ED should be their separate groups as well for same reason. Please remove Worst character.

Kameruka 2011-09-30 18:07

Remove "worst character" dubious 'award' but add "worst anime everybody watched" and "best anime nobody watched" just like what Gamespot did every year. Actually its helpful because we can we people just DON'T want to listen to what critics said.

Pocari_Sweat 2011-09-30 21:13

Voted for Version B (extended), Adding OP/ED Soundtrack category, Adding Character Design category, Adding Supporting Character category, removing Worst Character category.

I also agree with Kamekura that the "Worst anime everyone watched" and "Best anime nobody watched" should be added. It shows what AS people think what animes are overrated and underrated respectively.

Kudryavka 2011-09-30 22:52

I like Extended best because it offeres the most choices.

Kinda on the fence if Worst Character should stay.

OP/ED should be separate from OST choices because they often aren't really similar in composition. Op/ED are usually Pop or rock, while OSTs are usually lounge or of the barely there, soothing type.

Belial13 2011-10-01 02:34

In theory you can have 1000 categories, no one is forcing anyone to vote in all of them (I for example almost never vote for romance / slice of life / drama / fanservice / sports / visual / soundtrack categories , but that does not mean i would remove all of them)

so for my needs i guess:

Minimalistic but do NOT put fantasy / sci-fi in the same category, sure sometimes they can overlap especially when a series starts out as fantasy and end up sci-fi like Utawarerumono or Scrapped Princess, but for me these are two very different categories ... you would essentially put Claymore / Berserk in the same category as GitS / Planetes witch makes no sense

And adding a Supporting Character (sometimes a supporting character is "better" then a main character) and OP/ED (because i don't listen to a soundtrack 99.9% of the time so you can remove it for all i care, but sometimes i like an anime OP/ED) seems like a good idea to me


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