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-   -   Fate/Zero - Speculation & Theories (for F/SN Game Players) (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=107419)

relentlessflame 2011-10-07 20:47

Fate/Zero - Speculation & Theories (for F/SN Game Players)
 
This Speculation & Theories thread is intended for people who have played the Fate/Stay Night game, but have not read the Fate/Zero light novel series. This thread allows you to speculate about what you think will happen in Fate/Zero using your knowledge of the F/SN game.

No information from the Fate/Zero source material is allowed even under spoiler tags.

All information from the Fate/Stay Night game is permissible without spoiler tags.

Vicious108 2011-10-09 00:07

So, I'm curious, out of the 4th Grail War's events that we already know will happen from the Fate/Stay Night visual novel, which one(s) are you most looking forward to see animated? Again, only stuff that was explicitly stated to have happened in the Fate/Stay Night visual novel, not stuff that requires knowledge of the actual Fate/Zero light novel.

Personally I'm really looking forward to seeing Gilgamesh being bathed with the contents of the Holy Grail and going crazy (or rather, crazier) as a result.

And then there's the obvious stuff like Kiritsugu finding Shirou, of course.

alumnox 2011-10-09 00:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Endless Twilight (Post 3799105)
So, I'm curious, out of the 4th Grail War's events that we already know will happen from the Fate/Stay Night visual novel, which one(s) are you most looking forward to see animated? Again, only stuff that was explicitly stated to have happened in the Fate/Stay Night visual novel, not stuff that requires knowledge of the actual Fate/Zero light novel.

Personally I'm really looking forward to seeing Gilgamesh being bathed with the contents of the Holy Grail and going crazy (or rather, crazier) as a result.

And then there's the obvious stuff like Kiritsugu finding Shirou, of course.


The fight between Kiritsugu and Kirei that we know already from HF route that Kiritsugu shoots Kirei in the heart (but the battle should be epic), the marriage proposal from Gilgamesh to Saber (want to see the wtf faces of everyone around), the fight between them in the river bank when saber blows the ship and later when they meet next to the grail and how Kiritsugu after seeing whats inside the grail (this will be awesome) decides to command Saber to blow it.

That's pretty much everything I can think off and as you said Gilgamesh taking a bath of evil grail juice.

DragoZERO 2011-10-09 08:40

Saber and Gil parts will be the best. Should be interesting to see how Gil's delusions start. I am also curious about the order of events in the end and I too want to see Kiritsugu command Saber to destroy the Grail.

And Rin receiving that stone from her father. She left with her mother so I guess he will go see her at some point. He isn't that bad of a guy.

Vicious108 2011-10-09 09:08

Yeah, the climatic battle between Kiritsugu & Saber vs Kotomine & Gilgamesh should indeed be all kinds of awesome. The first episode already did an excellent job in setting them up as rivals and I can't wait for their first encounter.

Speaking of Kotomine & Gilgamesh, I'm also quite interested in seeing how exactly their allegiance comes to take place. As in, if it is a pre-planned occurrence from the get-go or if it simply happens spontaneously as a result of Tokiomi's death. The end of episode 2, with how Kotomine send Assassin to his death basically, makes me think it might be the former, but we'll see.

Cherry_Lover 2011-10-09 12:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by DragoZERO (Post 3799640)
And Rin receiving that stone from her father. She left with her mother so I guess he will go see her at some point. He isn't that bad of a guy.

Didn't she get the pendant from the will?

GDB 2011-10-09 12:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherry_Lover (Post 3799881)
Didn't she get the pendant from the will?

Believe so. All she got when he left was a pat on the head and maybe a book (I recall she was holding a book, but whether he handed it to her or not...).

DragoZERO 2011-10-09 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Endless Twilight (Post 3799673)
Yeah, the climatic battle between Kiritsugu & Saber vs Kotomine & Gilgamesh should indeed be all kinds of awesome. The first episode already did an excellent job in setting them up as rivals and I can't wait for their first encounter.

Speaking of Kotomine & Gilgamesh, I'm also quite interested in seeing how exactly their allegiance comes to take place. As in, if it is a pre-planned occurrence from the get-go or if it simply happens spontaneously as a result of Tokiomi's death. The end of episode 2, with how Kotomine send Assassin to his death basically, makes me think it might be the former, but we'll see.

You'd think Kirei was Gil's master from the beginning. Did they say that he was or wasn't in the VN? I don't remember.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GDB (Post 3799900)
Believe so. All she got when he left was a pat on the head and maybe a book (I recall she was holding a book, but whether he handed it to her or not...).

Ah, well, either way he visits her so yeah.

Vicious108 2011-10-09 20:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by DragoZERO (Post 3800421)
You'd think Kirei was Gil's master from the beginning. Did they say that he was or wasn't in the VN? I don't remember.

Ah, well, either way he visits her so yeah.

The Visual Novel has hundreds of pages of dialogue so I can't be sure, but I believe all he said was that Gil was also his Servant in the last war, not really specifying whether it was from the start or not. So yeah... and it's not like Kotomine is known to have a problem with stealing a Servant from another Master, as seen with Lancer in Fate/Stay Night.

Kaiba 2011-10-09 21:26

Quote:

You'd think Kirei was Gil's master from the beginning. Did they say that he was or wasn't in the VN? I don't remember.
Kirei in his first scene states that he was the first one to lose his Servant, and that he sought his father's protection. So you know what that probably means for Assassin.

DragoZERO 2011-10-09 22:03

I guess Kirei and Gil team up after they lose their partners.

Really gotta hand it to Urobuchi for staying true to the VN.

Cherry_Lover 2011-10-10 08:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by DragoZERO (Post 3800421)
You'd think Kirei was Gil's master from the beginning. Did they say that he was or wasn't in the VN? I don't remember.

I don't think it's ever stated that Kirei was Gil's initial master, just that he's a servant from the previous war. People just assumed he'd summoned Gil, because it was the obvious conclusion given the evidence presented at the time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaiba (Post 3800497)
Kirei in his first scene states that he was the first one to lose his Servant, and that he sought his father's protection. So you know what that probably means for Assassin.

Hmm, he did?

I guess most people must have missed that one....

Vicious108 2011-10-11 10:08

Since a lot of people around here seem to remember the Visual Novel a lot better than I do, especially since I've only read through it once, I figured I'd ask something here that's been bugging me since Fate/Zero started. Is the Matous' participation in the 4th Holy Grail War through Kariya a plot point that was already established in Fate/Stay Night itself (like other 4th War details like Kotomine being the first to lose his Servant) or is it something that was first revealed in Fate/Zero and therefore something that Gen Urobuchi came up with on his own?

It seems to me like a plot point much too directly connected to the Heaven's Feel route of the Visual Novel to be something that was created afterwards for the prequel, but I don't remember it ever being mentioned in the Visual Novel, so it's piqued my curiosity. Anyone know if it was ever touched upon in F/SN?

alumnox 2011-10-11 10:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Endless Twilight (Post 3802598)
Is the Matous' participation in the 4th Holy Grail War through Kariya a plot point that was already established in Fate/Stay Night itself .

Its a little bit of both. In the FSN game they talk a little bit about the destiny of the Tohsaka during the 4th war but never in too much detail about what happened to the Tohsaka beyond that they are both dead. Later, once the side materials started to came out, Nasu expanded the information about the families and their relationship and what happened during previous wars.

Since I cant be specific about the details because this thread doesn't allows it, I can say that Nasu set up the skeleton and some specific canon events over which Urobuchi build a story.

Edit.

Btw, heavens feel is the route that Nasu and Urobuchi used to build the canon time line and events for the Fateverse just because is the one with the most information from the three families and in the one you finally get to know the real reason behind the "grail war" but Nasu said that although heavens feel is the most complete the fate route as well as UBW are equal possible endings for the 5th war.

No matter what ending happens the 5th war marks the end of the road for the grail wars as they were established. Pretty much we saw the end of the story before knowing the beginning of it.

Vicious108 2011-10-11 13:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by alumnox (Post 3802640)
Its a little bit of both. In the FSN game they talk a little bit about the destiny of the Tohsaka during the 4th war but never in too much detail about what happened to the Tohsaka beyond that they are both dead. Later, once the side materials started to came out, Nasu expanded the information about the families and their relationship and what happened during previous wars.

Since I cant be specific about the details because this thread doesn't allows it, I can say that Nasu set up the skeleton and some specific canon events over which Urobuchi build a story.

I see. Very informative, thank you.

What would these side materials be, by the way? Stuff like the videogames?

Klashikari 2011-10-11 13:42

No, side material would be things like the Visual Books and so forth. Usual stuff about few trivia, such like the fact Saber was supposed to be male, while Shirou female etc.

fertygo 2011-10-27 11:46

So this crossed in my mind, this is should be speculation thread for VN player only right?

Spoiler for dunno I should put it behind this or not:

Vicious108 2011-10-27 12:05

That's an interesting prospect, but Tokiomi had Rin and momma Tohsaka move away somewhere supposedly safe, so Kiritsugu might consider it too much of a detour to try and kidnap them.

As for the rest of the Masters... Obviously Ryunosuke is out of question and Waver doesn't seem to have any real family near Fuyuki either. So my guess on possible candidates for being kidnapped would be that one woman that appears beside Archibald and Lancer in the OP and promotional artwork. But we still don't know anything about her character, so it's obviously a really baseless guess.

Kotomine's father also occurs to me, but he's kind of the supervisor of the war, so who knows.

As for the Matous, there's one of them we're not shown to be safe and sound in F/SN from what I remember - Matou Byakuya, Shinji's father. I can't remember if he's ever stated to be dead or just absent in F/SN, so he might be eligible for Kiritsugu's kidnapping. And if he was killed by him, it'd make Shinji's grudge against Emiya...Shirou all the more fitting.

Obelisk ze Tormentor 2011-10-27 12:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Endless Twilight (Post 3827663)
That's an interesting prospect, but Tokiomi had Rin and momma Tohsaka move away somewhere supposedly safe, so Kiritsugu might consider it too much of a detour to try and kidnap them.

That is one smart move by Tokiomi. That guy sure knows tactics.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Endless Twilight (Post 3827663)
As for the Matous, there's one of them we're not shown to be safe and sound in F/SN from what I remember - Matou Byakuya, Shinji's father. I can't remember if he's ever stated to be dead or just absent in F/SN, so he might be eligible for Kiritsugu's kidnapping. And if he was killed by him, it'd make Shinji's grudge against Emiya...Shirou all the more fitting.

I actually pretty curious about this too. Still, even if Byakuya got hurt/killed by Kiritsugu, I don't think it will make Shinji less...bastard. (Shinji's fans, forgive me :heh:)

Cherry_Lover 2011-10-27 14:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor (Post 3827689)
That is one smart move by Tokiomi. That guy sure knows tactics.

It's just common sense, really. He knows his house might be a target, and he certainly knows his family could be if they are there. Plus, I doubt he wants Rin around in case she tries to get involved....

The only person who Kiritsugu could plausibly kidnap and use as a "hostage" would be Sakura, but I doubt he knows how much Kariya values her, and she'd be nigh-on impossible to extract from the Matou house in any case (plus, Kariya would see that as a positive advantage, provided Kiritsugu didn't kill her). The only person who could plausibly use that tactic would be Kotomine (due to him having Assassin), and he's working for Tokiomi, who is somewhat unlikely to attempt to hold his own daughter to ransom (hell, if he tried, Kariya would probably just say "yeah, sure, you can keep her", given that that's what he wants...).


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