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-   -   Guilty Crown - General Character Discussion Thread (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=109718)

karice67 2012-01-17 20:20

This is a thread dedicated to discussions about the characters in Guilty Crown and their relationships with one another.

As such, please share with us more than a one-liner about so-and-so being your most or least favourite character, or what you think of a certain relationship (i.e., it's non-existent / uninteresting etc etc). We want to know why you think that way.

The relationships in question can be ones of 'friendship', 'romance', 'antagonism', 'opposition' etc etc, as long as they are supportable by evidence in the show.
However, I'd like to emphasize that this thread is not meant for shipping of any sort ( ♂x♀ , ♀x♀ , ♂x♂ ). Shipping that gets out of hand is likely to descend into flame wars, and will obscure other meaningful discussions.
Finally, if you do need to touch on anything that has yet to be revealed in the anime, be it from Japanese spoilers or just speculation, please remember your
Spoiler for just in case:


And without further ado, let the discussions begin!

Flawfinder 2012-01-17 23:59

Most people know that I don't really like any of the characters due to being either unlikable or forgettable. It's like the cast of The Social Network.

My favorite character though would have to be Dan Eagleman. While he's mostly an American stereotype, he is just so fun to watch due to his energy and optimism. Scarface comes close, but he needed to be a bit more comical in order to work (And no, you can make comedic characters threatening. Gaston from Beauty and The Beast is a prime example of that).

My least favorite character would have to be Haruka Ouma. Like Shu (and other characters), she suffers from the "trying to do a certain type of character, but failing to do it naturally" syndrome that practically all the characters (particularly Shu, Gai, and Inori) have. Her sluttiness at home being so far away from her professional position at work really hurts me. I don't know. Maybe it's because it feels like somebody thought, "hot (step)mothers who are professional at work and slutty at home are funny, so let's put that into Guilty Crown". Too much of a difference between home and work, people! If you're going to do that kind of character, you need to explore that characteristic (like Paranoia Agent). And I doubt it will be explored in the ten episodes to follow, because Guilty Crown is a show aimed for teenagers, and I don't see that kind of exploration done in teenage anime (maybe Toradora, but that's a bit of a stretch).

As for the relationships, I find them incredibly underdeveloped. The only one that was kind of developed was Shu and Souta (I think that's his name). The others just raise questions that will probably be covered later (like why Hare likes Shu). However, it doesn't change the fact that certain scenes throughout the episodes up to this point failed because they required you to care about the relationship. I didn't care about the cliffhanger in Episode 3 because Shu and Yahiro's relationship wasn't developed. The reveal in Episode 5 failed because Inori and Shu barely interacted in any meaningful way. Episode 12? Shu and Gai's present relationship wasn't done very well, so why should I care about their past relationship?

I could discuss the other characters in detail, but I've talked about them a lot already, and this isn't a thread for hating characters, so I think I'll end there. But just to make it clear, the reason I don't like most of the characters and their relationships is mostly because they don't feel natural to me. They feel VERY forced. Like they act a certain way because it says so in the script rather than because it's their character.

Edit: Okay, the latest episode formed a decent relationship between Ayase and Shu. Now I have a reason to actually care if something happens to their bond. But oh my god, I am getting sick of characters who complain about people not understanding them while never attempting to let them understand.

Cosmic Eagle 2012-01-22 10:35

Mana and Segai.....Latter is obvious. Mana has perhaps the most story, impact and well....characterization in the whole show so far....

djmaca 2012-01-22 22:08

Voted for Shu, because contrary to popular belief, to which most seems to have fell for it right off the bat(hah!), Shu is supposed to be incompetent... And evolving.

Evolving for the better actually. This show seems to be about Shu's gradual change. Change lampshaded, it seems, by the Void Genome's evolution. Of course it will feel forced for some: the show is forcing Shu to change.

@Flaw

When you feel that any relationship is underdeveloped I think that's because it is nothing more than a very simple relationship. Simple and clear though: Shu and Mana rescued Gai and took him in. Gai became Shu's bestfriend. Mana tries to incest Shu, Gai finds out about Mana being infected and intercepts, and gets shot by himself. Gai knows the root of the problem and leaves Shu to do something about it by himself. Years later, they met again.

Flawfinder 2012-01-22 23:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by djmaca (Post 3963168)
Evolving for the better actually. This show seems to be about Shu's gradual change. Change lampshaded, it seems, by the Void Genome's evolution. Of course it will feel forced for some: the show is forcing Shu to change.

Yeah, I'm not a huge fan of the forced/auto-pilot changing. Especially when it takes so long to do and it's not done in an interesting (or even natural) way (like Future Diary). Of course, giving Shu some better dialogue instead of portraying him (very unsubtly) as a loser probably would have helped (his dialogue in Episode 3 still haunts me to this day). *

Quote:

When you feel that any relationship is underdeveloped I think that's because it is nothing more than a very simple relationship. Simple and clear though: Shu and Mana rescued Gai and took him in. Gai became Shu's bestfriend. Mana tries to incest Shu, Gai finds out about Mana being infected and intercepts, and gets shot by himself. Gai knows the root of the problem and leaves Shu to do something about it by himself. Years later, they met again.
When it comes to that past relationship, it's fine for the most part. The present? Not so much. I think Boku Wa Tomodachi said it best: relationships in the past and in the present are different things, even when they're between the same people. Especially when they haven't seen each other in so long. Their present relationship is so rushed and too simple that I can't get invested into their (much better) past relationship. And that applies for all the other relationships. And that's a big problem when a huge crux of your anime relies on relationships (especially the voids).

* Seriously, who wrote the dialogue for that scene with Shu and Souta discussing how Inori is doll-like/CG and the follow-up scene to Shu complaining about how his feelings can get hurt? Please tell me the subbers got it wrong, because those are some of the worst lines I've ever seen. :D

Prince of Chips 2012-01-27 21:37

Ayase: No explanation needed

Mana because of:
Spoiler for EP 12:

blakstealth 2012-01-29 20:10

@Prince:

Spoiler:

LoveMeKags 2012-02-01 14:01

After finally watching episode one (which I avoided for multiple reasons), I have to agree based on that episode that not only are relationships underdeveloped and character growth rejected but they're avoided completely.

An example: Shu meets Inori in his house(?), they eat; but they don't really communicate. She isn't listening to him. But when he tries to communicate afterward, he doesn't try hard enough. Then we jump right to "take it to Gai." Then, after it is revealed (at the time) that she's a criminal and is taken away, Shu immediately decides to take her precious robot to Gai because he wants to be stronger (or reliable). All within that short amount of time without much thought on the consequences of the actions. He doesn't even know a thing about her. At most, I'm inclined to say he has a crush on her, considering he's a fan of hers.

Overall, the characters seem underdeveloped to me. Regardless, I like Inori's character a bit for the quiet and straight-to-the-point demeanor she has. I could do without Shu. But Gai is a sweet character.

I hope to see more as I watch the rest of the episodes. But I doubt my opinion will change about this aspect or Shu in overall rating. For now, I'll just leave it up in the air.

Runty 2012-02-07 02:09

Segai gives me such a huge Kefka vibe. Think about it: he looks like he's from a creepy circus, he's got an ultra-high IQ, he's sick and twisted to the extreme, and he's downright EVIL! Tell me that doesn't remind you of Kefka from FFVI.

Also, anytime you see Tsugumi is a win moment. :D

Oh, and on a side note, Daryl also gives me some Zuko (Avatar: TLA) vibes.

DarkyPwnz 2012-02-16 12:00

Hare reminds me of Shirley from Code Geass,too bad they are both dead through. I like Haruka,she tries to cheer her son up but she is serious whenever it is needed. Shu is just a loser with no redeeming qualities except the Void Genome he got just because he was lucky.

konart 2012-02-16 14:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkyPwnz (Post 4009193)
Hare reminds me of Shirley from Code Geass,too bad they are both dead through. I like Haruka,she tries to cheer her son up but she is serious whenever it is needed. Shu is just a loser with no redeeming qualities except the Void Genome he got just because he was lucky.

You still haven't seen the last 3-4 episodes, am I right? :heh:

DarkyPwnz 2012-02-16 15:02

Well,I couldn't find 17 anywhere but as far as I remember in the last 3-4 episodes she wasn't ever at home. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Edit:

Another reason I like her is that she is a female version of Shu who hasn't failed in everything she has ever done in her life.

konart 2012-02-16 15:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkyPwnz (Post 4009375)
Well,I couldn't find 17 anywhere but as far as I remember in the last 3-4 episodes she wasn't ever at home. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Edit:

Another reason I like her is that she is a female version of Shu who hasn't failed in everything she has ever done in her life.

Yeah, she was in the lab, monitoring ghosts and driving Shu to insanity :heh:

Xaturas 2012-02-16 22:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by konart (Post 4009464)
Yeah, she was in the lab, monitoring ghosts and driving Shu to insanity :heh:

Nothing to add. Haruka was all cheery cheery in home while in work she was planning how to back-stab Shu. Especially Evident in the second part of GC.

Ledgem 2012-03-17 19:31

It's been over a month since the last posts were made, so perhaps people's views have changed. Still, I think they're a bit off. Then again, my family was involved in the science profession growing up, and I engaged in it as well. The fact that Haruka was barely home didn't make her seem like a bad parent to me: it seemed like reality for most of us in the sciences. This aspect of the series connected with me.

Regarding Haruka's intentions, I did not get the impression that she was ever plotting against him. She was trying to carry out Shu's father's will with the void genome. It was a complete accident that Shu got wrapped up in it. Obviously it changed his life; it also put a lot of pressure on him. Haruka could probably figure that much from within the organization, given that Shu was being targeted so frequently and the void genome was such a big deal. And so, when...
Spoiler for Shu's power:


Shu seems to get hated on a lot, but I like him a lot as a character. He's very human throughout the entire series, and seeing his growth and reactions was pretty inspirational. I get the impression that people stopped watching this series at two major segments: in the very beginning, when Shu seems to express a lot of back-and-forth thinking about joining the Undertakers, and shortly after the halfway point of the series,
Spoiler for Shu personality shift:


I also found it very well-done how the series handled the situations that Shu was placed into. In the beginning, Shu accuses Gai of using people as tools; midway through the beginning, Gai basically reveals how he feels about being the leader. In the second half of the series, Shu is accused of using people as tools, and expresses somewhat similar sentiments as Gai about being a leader. Seeing it go full-circle like that was really nicely done.

Triple_R 2012-03-17 19:43

Very well-said, Ledgem. I largely agree.

Well, except I will admit that Haruka came across to me as a bit of a pandering character earlier on, when she didn't seem to serve any purpose in the story other than being a "hot MILF". :heh:

Spoiler for Haruka Spoilers, Episode 19-centric:


As for Shu...

Spoiler for Major Shu spoilers from 2nd half of anime:


Still, Shu's overall characterization is one that I'm fine with.

Ledgem 2012-03-17 20:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triple_R (Post 4057810)
Well, except I will admit that Haruka came across to me as a bit of a pandering character earlier on, when she didn't seem to serve any purpose in the story other than being a "hot MILF". :heh:

I was a bit bothered by the blatant fanservice that surrounded her, but figured that her true significance was something that would be coming up in the future - particularly since it seemed as if some of the characters within GHQ knew her. As a result, I wasn't too bothered by how she came across at first.


Quote:

Spoiler for Major Shu spoilers from 2nd half of anime:

I was doing a pretty good job of pacing myself with this series, watching no more than one episode a day (and usually it was more like 2-3 per week), but when I hit this arc I watched it all in one sitting. I just couldn't put it down :heh:

It may be that I watched it in a relatively short period of time and didn't have too much time to analyze it, but I felt that it was sufficiently done. Going into it a bit...
Spoiler for Motivations:


As for what happened after...
Spoiler for Betrayal:


While we're talking about characters, I'd like to bring up Kuhouin Arisa, who had some development that was painful to me:
Spoiler for Arisa's development:

Triple_R 2012-03-17 21:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ledgem (Post 4057874)

I was doing a pretty good job of pacing myself with this series, watching no more than one episode a day (and usually it was more like 2-3 per week), but when I hit this arc I watched it all in one sitting. I just couldn't put it down :heh:

It certainly was very intense and suspenseful. One thing I'll admit is that Guilty Crown is the anime I've looked forward to the most each week since it started airing (followed closely by Shana III). It just hits a lot of the right chords for the sci-fi and action-drama lover in me.


Quote:


It may be that I watched it in a relatively short period of time and didn't have too much time to analyze it, but I felt that it was sufficiently done. Going into it a bit...
Spoiler for Motivations:


As for what happened after...
Spoiler for Betrayal:

This is all extremely well-put, and I largely agree with it. More detailed thoughts in spoiler space below

Spoiler for Major Guilty Crown 2nd Half Spoilers:



Quote:

While we're talking about characters, I'd like to bring up Kuhouin Arisa, who had some development that was painful to me:
Spoiler for Arisa's development:

Yeah, I agree with you on Airsa. In fact, I have a question here...

Spoiler for Arisa question, very spoilerrifc:


__________________________________________________ _



Now, it occurs to me that I probably should take some time to talk about my own favorite GC characters.

Based on the first half alone, they were Gai, Hare, and Segai.

Gai provided a much-needed "cool protagonist" during the first half, when Shu was still gradually rounding into shape. I really enjoyed Gai's style and theatrics in the first half. But I think I probably prefer Shu over him at this point in the anime.

Now, as for Hare and Segai...

Spoiler for MAJOR Guilty Crown Spoilers:


Now Shu completes the three characters I voted for in the poll (along with Hare and Segai), due to how he's now surpassed Gai, imo. And it's rather fitting that he's done that for me, since it helps make for a nice overarching character arc, I think.

Flawfinder 2012-03-17 22:05

Yeah, my views have changed of the characters since I last posted. Here's what they are currently:

I think it's safe to conclude that I hate this cast of characters and have not seen a group this unlikeable since The Social Network, mostly for the reason that I find them either boring, half-assed, or downright miscast. Mostly though, it's because the characters are just slaves to the writers. And I mean they're REALLY tools of the writers. The concept behind them is fine, but the execution is just plain horrible.

Spoiler for Shu:


Spoiler for Inori and Gai:


Spoiler for Other characters:


In the end, I'm kind of amazed I hate this cast so much. I will say though that if the show had been a little better, I would have said that the tolerable characters could have saved the anime for me. But unfortunately, the writers won't give them their independence. :heh:

Edit: And yes, I agree with Triple_R that the characters have their roles to fill and half of them do fill them fine (That serial killer kid who barely does anything is NOT one of them. And don't get me started on that Daath kid). The problem is, there's not much to them besides those roles. I ask myself with characters, would I want to see stories about their daily lives. The answer is "no", of course. And while I do agree with Ledgem's analysis (although I didn't care about Hare's admittedly well-done scene because I hated her), it's one of those things that is good when written, but when watching it, I just go "eh". It wasn't bad, but it didn't leave much of an impact.

Ledgem 2012-03-17 23:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triple_R (Post 4057959)
Spoiler for Major Guilty Crown 2nd Half Spoilers:

I like Souta well enough. He did something stupid, and anger against him was warranted at the time. I'm glad that it's largely resolved.



Quote:

Yeah, I agree with you on Airsa. In fact, I have a question here...

Spoiler for Arisa question, very spoilerrifc:

I could easily go back and re-watch that segment, but I just saw it this morning and will choose to be a bit lazy instead. I think my memory should suffice:
Spoiler for Arisa sequence of events:


Quote:

Gai provided a much-needed "cool protagonist" during the first half, when Shu was still gradually rounding into shape. I really enjoyed Gai's style and theatrics in the first half. But I think I probably prefer Shu over him at this point in the anime.
I thought that Gai represented some good food for thought. When Shu disagreed with him and his policies, I found myself torn between the two. What Shu said made sense, yet it also seemed too idealistic. At the same time, Gai sent out a ton of mixed signals as to how he regarded others. Did he really care for others, or were they just pawns to him?
He said enough things and took enough actions that I could believe either.

However, what I enjoyed most about Gai came at the midpoint of the series:
Spoiler for Gai's past:


I'd love to reply to more parts of your post, but I also wanted to make a reply to Flawnalyst's post and I'm getting sleepy... so moving on:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flawnalyst (Post 4057974)
I think it's safe to conclude that I hate this cast of characters and have not seen a group this unlikeable since The Social Network, mostly for the reason that I find them either boring, half-assed, or downright miscast. Mostly though, it's because the characters are just slaves to the writers. And I mean they're REALLY tools of the writers. The concept behind them is fine, but the execution is just plain horrible.

I really enjoyed the characters, so I'm sorry that you feel that way. Just as we don't all enjoy the same foods or find them equally tasty, how we connect with and interpret the characters will differ from person to person. I don't think it would be possible for anyone to drastically alter your views on the characters, but I'd like to reply to some of your points:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flawnalyst (Post 4057974)
In the end, Shu is a wimp that is the victim of poor writing and I hate him for being such an utter tool of the plot.

I didn't participate in discussions about this series, but I know that a lot of people got frustrated with Shu's "wimpyness." I found it to be endearing. He was somewhat indecisive and lacked confidence, but he wasn't so freaked out that he panicked or didn't do anything.
Spoiler for Shu:


I guess it depends on where you're at in your own life. I recently had my confidence shaken, and frequently come to doubt myself. Shu was a character that I could strongly identify with, and who I found to be somewhat inspirational. I'm sure that if I were to watch this series during one of the times in my life where I felt as if I could take on the entire world with one hand tied behind my back, Shu would probably be incredibly frustrating to watch.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flawnalyst (Post 4057974)
Spoiler for Inori and Gai:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but:
Spoiler for Gai:


I didn't really feel that Inori was like a robot. She fell into the "emotionless girl"-type of character, but truthfully I think that she was unusual for it. Compare her with the archetype of that genre, Rei Ayanami from Evangelion. Rei was almost entirely emotionless throughout the series (the moments where she wasn't were really special), and she didn't really question anything. On the other hand, Inori questioned a good many things. She felt emotions, and questioned what some of them meant. She pursued her feelings. She's not a perfect character, but meh :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flawnalyst (Post 4057974)
Spoiler for Other characters:

What's wrong with acting one way at home, and acting differently elsewhere - particularly when we're talking the difference between family and a professional environment? I don't exactly go running around my apartment in my underwear, rubbing myself on objects and people (my wife, on the other hand... :naughty: just kidding! She'd probably get upset if I really said what she does at home, but suffice it to say that I doubt that anyone who works with her would even be able to imagine it if they heard (reading that back over, I realize that it makes it sound really bad... don't read too much into it)), but my demeanor is quite different. I guess there are some people out there who behave the same way no matter where they are, and this part of the series would have been difficult to understand if so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flawnalyst (Post 4057974)
I will say though that if the show had been a little better, I would have said that the tolerable characters could have saved the anime for me.

It really goes to show how important the characters are to a show. If you don't connect with the characters, I don't think that anything - not the music, artwork, or story - can really redeem the series and make it have a great impact.


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