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-   -   Schwarzesmarken - Novel Discussion (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=112155)

Silvance 2012-05-09 01:11

Schwarzesmarken - Novel Discussion
 
Schwarzesmarken (シュヴァルツェスマーケン) is another side-story of the Muv-Luv series, but the events takes place in 1983. Like Total Eclipse, Schwarzesmarken is also a light novel, and its being serialized in Tech Gian.

Dynamic tag cannot be rendered. (PrintableThread)


Quote:

Originally Posted by ML Wiki
The East German Army 666th TSF Squadron "Schwarzesmarken" (Black Marks) are a special-forces unit tasked with assaulting BETA forces through unconventional tactics; specifically, they target Lux and Magnus Lux to deny the BETA the advantage of ranged firepower. Their orders are given the topmost priority, such that it is common practice for the 666th to ignore allied distress calls that will result in deviation from their original mission, even if only for a short moment.

The 666th Squadron mostly operates MiG-21s, with their squadron commander Irisdina Bernhard piloting an MiG-21PF.

The first chapter has been translated, and released today by a kind soul, Mister V which is also why this is a good time to have a nice discussion with the rest of you.

As for the translated chapters, you can read it here.

Any thoughts? Come and share them.

EagleBlue 2012-05-09 01:19

Who translated and where is the translation?

Did read the OP well enough. Is it true that's the only chapter they can?

delorean2200 2012-05-09 04:56

Muv-Luv certainly changed a lot of things for me, in the past i wasn't interested thouching manga, let alone a light novel... Yet the moment i saw this i read it all XD (well first chapter :P), interesting story hope he translates it all.

Kleeyook 2012-05-09 10:35

...

I just simply got tired of multiple versions of Muv-Luv.

I wish Shirogane would become the strongest ever pilot, but then there's Hibiki who seems to be even more badass as well as Ikaruga. Shirogane seems to be really badass in Alternative but he's not invincible.

I want more Shirogane! Give him more badass scenes! I don't want other new casts!

Silvance 2012-05-09 14:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by EagleBlue (Post 4151856)
Who translated and where is the translation?

Did read the OP well enough. Is it true that's the only chapter they can?

Quote:

Originally Posted by delorean2200 (Post 4152020)
Muv-Luv certainly changed a lot of things for me, in the past i wasn't interested thouching manga, let alone a light novel... Yet the moment i saw this i read it all XD (well first chapter :P), interesting story hope he translates it all.

Only one chapter so far. He plans to translate the rest once he gets his hands on the other books. They're not cheap after all. I tried to purchase them from Amazon.co.jp, but the shipping was twice the cost of the item so I had to cancel. ;_;



Quote:

Originally Posted by Kleeyook (Post 4152372)
...

I just simply got tired of multiple versions of Muv-Luv.

I wish Shirogane would become the strongest ever pilot, but then there's Hibiki who seems to be even more badass as well as Ikaruga. Shirogane seems to be really badass in Alternative but he's not invincible.

I want more Shirogane! Give him more badass scenes! I don't want other new casts!

Takeru already had his share of suffering and adventure. His story is done, and I don't see what is so abominable about the new cast that you'd want to discard them. No one is invincible in Muv-Luv universe which is why it's thrilling and leaves the readers at the edge of their seats. If you really want more Takeru or the old cast, you can always read Altered Fable. :heh:

From the way I see it, you seem to detest the fact that there are other pilots, who can compete with Takeru or even surpass him. The new casts are interesting, and likable far beyond than what you make it out to be, and they all have more than enough combat experience which explains their competency in the application of violence and tactics. I think it makes sense why they're good pilots, and leaders on their own right. :eyebrow:

Question, did you really read the other side-stories or were they based from secondhand information? Really, it's hard NOT to like them at all especially Hibiki and the rest of the Wardogs. In any case, I apologize if I sounded offensive to you. I still respect your opinion just so you know.


Anyway, back on topic.

Wow. I felt bad for the infantries. They finally thought back up had arrived, but they just flew past them. Hunting the laser class is a dangerous job especially with very few units on the field WITH poor visibility. The suspense was killing me. Man, Theo complaining like that reminded me of Takeru in Alternative where he kept saying how things should be done. It felt nostalgic in a good way. lol.

So far, I can't help but like Irisdina. A strict, collected, and sharp leader with a good sense of humor. I laughed so hard when Irisdina asked for Theo instead of Walter, and when she said the operation was easier because she doesn't have to worry about her sense of directions. That was just pure gold.

And yeah, Gretel is just bitter, but I can help to think she may have a soft spot for Theo. :heh:

EagleBlue 2012-05-09 14:59

In Muvluv, being in a mech just sucks less. Although if you're in an Orbital Driver going to a hive that sucks more.

I find that Schwarzesmarken is good. Feels like Warhammer 40k in the Muvluv Universe. It's even got commissars and infantry that gets slaughtered by aliens.

Timsel 2012-05-09 15:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silvance (Post 4152751)

Wow. I felt bad for the infantries. They finally thought back up had arrived, but they just flew past them.

It seems insane to withstand even ko-gata BETA with unprotected infantrymen and we must highly appreciate bravery of poor oberst Klaudia and her company. Of course Germans are perfect soldiers.
But as a genuine Russian I somewhat feel a pity that Ychida Hiroki didn`t show us BETA fighting with the tanks that were in the second line.
Japanese are fond of Giant Humanoid Robots but we think that tanks didn`t said their last word even in fantasy world :)
It seems that somebody in Age are agree:

http://s019.radikal.ru/i618/1205/2a/69c2f1b72608.jpg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silvance (Post 4152751)
And yeah, Gretel is just bitter, but I can help to think she may have a soft spot for Theo. :heh:

Oh, Fedor saved Gretel already so I am sure that tender bud of love is ripen in her chest (alas - not so impressive that Snow Qween has :) ).

delorean2200 2012-05-09 15:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silvance (Post 4152751)
Only one chapter so far. He plans to translate the rest once he gets his hands on the other books. They're not cheap after all. I tried to purchase them from Amazon.co.jp, but the shipping was twice the cost of the item so I had to cancel. ;_;

Ouch...





Quote:

Originally Posted by Silvance (Post 4152751)
Takeru already had his share of suffering and adventure. His story is done, and I don't see what is so abominable about the new cast that you'd want to discard them. No one is invincible in Muv-Luv universe which is why it's thrilling and leaves the readers at the edge of their seats. If you really want more Takeru or the old cast, you can always read Altered Fable. :heh:

This is how i felt as well, his story contained a certain feeling of completion/peace in that world (i don't think i ever got that feeling from any other work), there is nothing more he could have done, sure there was some feeling of regret (well not regarding him that's for sure, does who have finished it know what i'm talking about) but it was still complete.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silvance (Post 4152751)
From the way I see it, you seem to detest the fact that there are other pilots, who can compete with Takeru or even surpass him. The new casts are interesting, and likable far beyond than what you make it out to be, and they all have more than enough combat experience which explains their competency in the application of violence and tactics. I think it makes sense why they're good pilots, and leaders on their own right. :eyebrow:

Question, did you really read the other side-stories or were they based from secondhand information? Really, it's hard NOT to like them at all especially Hibiki and the rest of the Wardogs. In any case, I apologize if I sounded offensive to you. I still respect your opinion just so you know. I sincerely hope I did not offend you. :(


Indeed, they created this grand world with all this detail and history, its nice to see some different view points, personally i'm all for the side stories to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silvance (Post 4152751)
Anyway, back on topic.

Wow. I felt bad for the infantries. They finally thought back up had arrived, but they just flew past them. Hunting the laser class is a dangerous job especially with very few units on the field WITH poor visibility. The suspense was killing me. Man, Theo complaining like that reminded me of Takeru in Alternative where he kept saying how things should be done. It felt nostalgic in a good way. lol.

Well except Theo follows through with his way of thinking unlike Takeru who was more mouth then show during that time your speaking of :P, not that i like Theo's attitude that is :P.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silvance (Post 4152751)
So far, I can't help but like Irisdina. A strict, collected, and sharp leader with a good sense of humor. I laughed so hard when Irisdina asked for Theo instead of Walter, and when she said the operation was easier because she doesn't have to worry about her sense of directions. That was just pure gold.

She's my favorite as well XD, for pretty much the same reasons.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silvance (Post 4152751)
And yeah, Gretel is just bitter, but I can help to think she may have a soft spot for Theo. :heh:

It sort of felt like the other way around for me since...

Spoiler for ...:

MisterV 2012-05-09 16:50

Nice to see you're enjoying this, guys.
And yeah, whatever that first part is - wouldn't call it a chapter, size-wise it's like half a book - is the only thing we have atm. Someone over at /m/ thought they'd pick up the books, but I don't know whether/when we'd see the result of that...

delorean2200 2012-05-09 17:25

Regardless of that thanks for the hardwork in putting this together i quite enjoyed the read XD.

The only thing that felt kind of out of place was the comments regarding the things which where supposedly historically not correct according to our world and the need compare the world in muv-luv alternative/unlimited with ours saying that it was wrong in their perspective. In Muv-Luv Unlimited/Alternative (i mean here the visual novels) its being made clear with the talks between Yuuko-sensei and Takeru that although there are still some common things between the worlds there are also many differences (like political systems, tech advancements (in that world they where already more advanced then us in quite a lot of fields since they probed mars by the year 1958) and there are other differences), so to compare there way of being with ours and call it historical not correct since it is a different world where talking about feels kind of wrong.

EagleBlue 2012-05-09 17:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterV (Post 4152864)
Nice to see you're enjoying this, guys.
And yeah, whatever that first part is - wouldn't call it a chapter, size-wise it's like half a book - is the only thing we have atm. Someone over at /m/ thought they'd pick up the books, but I don't know whether/when we'd see the result of that...

Are you going to translate something else until you get the raws or will you wait? Anyways thanks for the translation and I hope that you enjoy doing that.

Timsel 2012-05-11 12:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by delorean2200 (Post 4152906)
The only thing that felt kind of out of place was the comments regarding the things which where supposedly historically not correct according to our world and the need compare the world in muv-luv alternative/unlimited with ours saying that it was wrong in their perspective.

In one aspect I agree and want to add that in MLA world not Hiroshima and Nagasaki were nuked but some German sities (Berlin I suppose? Or may be Dresden?)
Quote:

(like political systems, tech advancements (in that world they where already more advanced then us in quite a lot of fields since they probed mars by the year 1958) and there are other differences)
But in other hand MLA world isn`t advanced in other aspects - you remember how Meya was shocked by GameBoy and not in 1983 but 18 yers later?

Quote:

so to compare there way of being with ours and call it historical not correct since it is a different world where talking about feels kind of wrong.
But when I look at DDR that Uchida Hiroki pictured, I mostly see familiar things: Mpi-K, HSV mashineguns, shtrichtarn and shining long boots. And of course ridiculous informants counts from Viki, that Uchida retells us. No, this isn`t different world - this is good old 1983 with BETA, TSF and teh Drama and historical corrections could help young people to not forget that MLA based on real world and thanks to that is great.
So I think :)

Quote:

Are you going to translate something else until you get the raws or will you wait?
Now we are trying to translate short 2-page story "Manipulated victory" from Tactical Surface Fighter in Action (TSF figures promotion collection) - Mister V into English and me into Russian. The story is short but full of fort-class BETA, Mig-23 Cheburashka (I can`t understand why this plane has so strange name in MLA world, because Чебурашка is a cute little unknown to science animal with big ears, from child`s cartoon and we call this name not Mig-23 but american A-10 that have two divided turbo-jets on his sides), and last but not the least - major Beatrix Brehmer, femme fatale from Stasi. She`s so stern that all masochist can`t wait when she`ll appear and punish them.
:)

delorean2200 2012-05-12 01:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timsel (Post 4155683)
But in other hand MLA world isn`t advanced in other aspects - you remember how Meya was shocked by GameBoy and not in 1983 but 18 yers later?


That was Ayamine not Meiya :P, plus it is shown that in the Unlimited/Alternative world, they concentrated all scientific study to find ways of improving there military tech and finding new ways of countering BETA. Due to the imminent BETA threat they didn't really had much to spare on entertainment. "Our" world since its not menaced by anything had no problem and no constraints in developing entertainment tech, but for the Unlimited/Alternative world that was a luxury they couldn't afford and except for entertainment they are more evolved technology wise then us in every aspect.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Timsel (Post 4155683)
But when I look at DDR that Uchida Hiroki pictured, I mostly see familiar things: Mpi-K, HSV mashineguns, shtrichtarn and shining long boots. And of course ridiculous informants counts from Viki, that Uchida retells us. No, this isn`t different world - this is good old 1983 with BETA, TSF and teh Drama and historical corrections could help young people to not forget that MLA based on real world and thanks to that is great.
So I think :)

Now contrary to what i just said that i agree with you completely since history can be neglected and its nice to point out real events and facts using such a novel, the only thing was that it felt out of place for me was saying that the novel is wrong, imho it would be probably sound better just to make a note without saying that the novel is wrong just saying how the actual facts are.



Now i hope i don't sound like someone criticizing or complaining about the groups work, i loved it, enjoyed it and i'm really grateful for it, i just wanted to comment on that part since it felt a bit strange for me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timsel (Post 4155683)
Now we are trying to translate short 2-page story "Manipulated victory" from Tactical Surface Fighter in Action (TSF figures promotion collection) - Mister V into English and me into Russian. The story is short but full of fort-class BETA, Mig-23 Cheburashka (I can`t understand why this plane has so strange name in MLA world, because Чебурашка is a cute little unknown to science animal with big ears, from child`s cartoon and we call this name not Mig-23 but american A-10 that have two divided turbo-jets on his sides), and last but not the least - major Beatrix Brehmer, femme fatale from Stasi. She`s so stern that all masochist can`t wait when she`ll appear and punish them.
:)

Nice wish you good luck with it XD, looks like something to look forward to XD.

Mazryonh 2012-05-12 14:00

Thank you very much for posting this translation, Silvance.

The first chapter makes Irisdina look very much like a capable and competent commander in and out of her mecha (though some official art featuring her makes me wonder if she's also had a lot of practice as a seductress). Still, I'm very confused as to why Carnelian's gorgeous art took so long to be featured in an Age studio IP. Carnelian was one of their founding members, so why did it take so long for her to take the spotlight?

I'm also confused as to why so many other characters in this series (such as Sylvia Kuszaszynska, Gretel Jeckeln, and Pham Thi Ran haven't received any attention in the official art yet). Carnelian's designs are always golden.

Silvance 2012-05-12 18:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterV (Post 4152864)
Nice to see you're enjoying this, guys.

We're able to enjoy another segment of the ML series, and that's all thanks to your hard work. Again, thank you very much.

Quote:

Originally Posted by delorean2200 (Post 4152800)
Spoiler for ...:

I kinda thought of that too, but I think she's his element, so he feels more compelled to provide support. I might be wrong though. :heh:


Quote:

Originally Posted by Timsel (Post 4152781)

Yeah, it'd be nice if we get see the tanks in action in this segment even if its just for one scene. They're outdated, but they can still be useful for artillery support in a desperate situation, no? XD

Quote:

Originally Posted by delorean2200 (Post 4156462)
That was Ayamine not Meiya :P,

Actually, it can be any of the five girls depending on your choice. :heh:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mazryonh (Post 4157210)
Thank you very much for posting this translation, Silvance.

The first chapter makes Irisdina look very much like a capable and competent commander in and out of her mecha (though some official art featuring her makes me wonder if she's also had a lot of practice as a seductress). Still, I'm very confused as to why Carnelian's gorgeous art took so long to be featured in an Age studio IP. Carnelian was one of their founding members, so why did it take so long for her to take the spotlight?

I'm also confused as to why so many other characters in this series (such as Sylvia Kuszaszynska, Gretel Jeckeln, and Pham Thi Ran haven't received any attention in the official art yet). Carnelian's designs are always golden.

Oh, all I did was post the link. lol :D

The one that you should really thank is MisterV and Timsel since they seem to work on it together. :3

lol. I believe those are just for fanservice, I mean Yuzuka and Yui often have official art depicting them in an erotic manner, and they're not seductress in any manner. :heh:

As for Carnelian, I did not even know she's a founding member of Age... but yeah, I love her art a lot too. <3

Sumeragi 2012-05-12 20:00

Perfect. This is just perfect.

Mazryonh 2012-05-16 21:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silvance (Post 4157487)
I believe those are just for fanservice, I mean Yuzuka and Yui often have official art depicting them in an erotic manner, and they're not seductress in any manner. :heh:

Sure, but the problem is that an official illustration of Vol. 18 of Schwarzesmarken depicts Irisdina in a position that looks like she's doing her damndest to seduce whoever she's lying next to. I have to wonder what is actually going on in that volume . . .

Sumeragi 2012-05-16 23:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mazryonh (Post 4163708)
Sure, but the problem is that an official illustration of Vol. 18 of Schwarzesmarken depicts Irisdina in a position that looks like she's doing her damndest to seduce whoever she's lying next to. I have to wonder what is actually going on in that volume . . .

Well, if you read the very short excerpt that accompanies that illustration.....

Spoiler for Chapter 18 Excerpt:

It's so..... erotic.

*Blushes*

EagleBlue 2012-05-16 23:33

Question, does anyone have translations for the rest of the excerpts?

Sumeragi 2012-05-16 23:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by EagleBlue (Post 4163816)
Question, does anyone have translations for the rest of the excerpts?

I could do it if you want me to.


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