Hyouka - Episodes 1-3 Discussion / Poll
Welcome to the discussion thread for Hyouka, Episodes 1-3.
Impressions from the General thread
Spoiler for Episode 1:
Spoiler for Episode 2:
Spoiler for Episode 3:
Looking back on it, I now just realized that out of all the shows premiering this season, Hyou-Ka somehow ended up being the one I wrote about most on AS. It's funny, since I'm quite sure there are a lot of other shows that I consider to be better written and like a lot more on a personal level, but I just couldn't help but be drawn in by this anime.
I guess it has to do with it's visual aspect. Yes, this is show is nicely animated, but I think I only realized that it wasn't the high level of animation that caught my eye, but also the level of detail, care and attention given to every scene in each episode. There was a noticeable amount of effort placed into the planning and creation of this show, and I couldn't help but admired it all before getting mesmerized much like Oreki had been :p
I suppose if I were to rank them, I'd give all three episode an 8. I'm not a believer in the 3rd episode myth (I think the whole thing is starting to get out of hand recently), and I honestly think that the show had displayed it's main strong points from the get go, but due to the story not having an interesting introduction as well as presenting rather inane puzzle solving and trying to make them look more interesting than they really are, it took sometime time before we got to the more interesting bits. Thankfully, the anime team had done a superb job in making up for that weakness, and we ended up with stronger opening episodes than what should have been. Hopefully the writing can match up to the same level of effort the anime staff had shown, now that we got away from puzzle solving into something more crucial to the core cast. I remain optimistic that it does, since we did get to see some interesting things in the presentation of the cast (a huge part of that had more to do with the visuals carrying it over, but the dialogue helped too) and the interactions between the two leads.
8/10 for the first three episodes sounds about right to me as well.
However, I have to disagree with you, Arabesque, on the 3-Episode rule and on this show displaying its main strong points from the very first episode.
I'm a big believer in the 3-episode Rule, and sure enough, it was the third episode of this anime that truly sold me on it. And I think that it wasn't until the third episode that one of the main strong points of this show was displayed: Overarching mysteries tying directly and personally into the main cast of the show.
Up until the third episode, the only mysteries we really had were small episodic ones, and many viewers found them inane, as you did. No matter how good the animation and attention to visual detail is, this is still billed as a Mystery anime (not just a straight-up Slice of Life) and so some people watching this show were hoping for good mysteries, so I don't see how that could be considered anything less than one of the main strength of the show (since going by Episodes 3 and 4, it may in fact have that strength after all).
Mind you, the visual strengths of the show were displayed well from the very first episode, and three of the four main cast members received good introductions in the first episode. But that's just the good foundational work for what the show is actually about, imo.
I'm a believer in 3-Episode Rule (although I could easily extend it to 5).
So far what I got in Hyouka is an SoL-Mystery. Slice of Mystery, per se. You can say that I was already sold on the Slice of Life feeling that Hyouka had. Note that it was supposed to be a novel, yet they have adapted it into an anime. (and 21 eps too, unusually.) And the mere fact that it was a 2001 (or so) series intrigues me.
If it already existed since around 2005, it would already have the capacity to be adapted. I see shows like Haruhi, Negima! and the like get adapted, but why not this particular series. My bet is that it was a full pledged novel, something that only gets noticed when it had something to do with otaku culture somehow or is utterly famous... to otakus.
My hypothesis: Hyouka's Ep 1 - 3 was a risk, an experiment, and a marginal divider. These episodes provided a risk, being setting off anger by some KyoAni fags here and there. It was an experiment, because people often view mystery anime as thrilling, and often having wierd murders and stuff, something people already have gotten used to. Heck, it reminded me of Konata's conversation with Kagami (Lucky Star reference) about mystery animes. In it, Konata asked why mystery protagonists in anime didn't solved normal cases? (ie. finding a lost relative, searching for a husband that's been cheating on a wife) Their answer: it isn't interesting. Hyouka's answer: this.
Hyouka's key is in the characters. Why should I even go here now, when KyoAni is merely famous (or merely TOO famous) for such a characterization. Oreki is a Holmes-In-Lax-Mode monochrome guy who suddenly finds the rose of his life in an eccentric girl called Eru. Trust me, it's often more than that.
I believe that the coming episodes will have more to do with the characters, and Ep 1 already bought me from the start. Ep 2 mere expounded my interest by making quick and realistic mysteries that are actually interesting. And Ep3 is more like a beginner in a good arc.
Overall, a grand hit or miss, but mostly hit if you're a K-ON / Lucky Star fan.
My thought on the subject of slow early episodes:
Sorry about the late reply, but I've been sort of busy IRL
I don't think you are wrong with the bold part. Certainly, for an anime billed as a mystery (or at least, having mystery solving as a crucial part of it's narrative and the character story arcs) this is an important point that the first few episode failed to deliver in a satisfying manner (I had described it as puzzle solving that you might find in the early parts of a Professor Layton game). So yes, we did finally get what was the first tangible hint to something more mystery-like than what we had already (even though we didn't get into that until the 4th episode actually, and the 3rd episode was still a rather trivial puzzle as well) but yes, we did get our first look into what amounted to something bigger.
That said, the impression I got from you was that you had already been waiting for this to show up, a final piece to make you more sold on to the show. I know that I'm pretty similar in how I viewed this show. I already had more than enough reasons to like this show and be sold on it, as you put it. The visual aspect was top notch, the attention to details in it as well as the animation mesmerizing and fluid and the imaginative quality to the flashbacks and Oreki's daydreams shows a lot of care was placed into not only the production, but also how do these visuals tie into the story and how much do they tell us about the lead and the story without the usage of any additional dialogue.
By the time episode 3 rolled along, we had already got the push we needed to be sold on the trip fully, the promise of a larger mystery in store.
But that wasn't the episode that was meant to tie things together. That wasn't the conclusion the story was heading towards for this arc, nor was it paced so we'd be satisfied by what we got in that episode. The finale of this first arc was on episode 5, the episode where everything was meant to be revealed, where all the hints we had gotten via either the visuals (e.g. The female Librarian), dialogue (about Eru's ''family circumstances'') or the red hearings about the case (was the Uncle dishonored? etc.) and where we were meant to be truly sold on this anime.
The way Hyouka had been structured for this first arc was that we got about 4 episodes where the show gradually got more and more involving (intentionally) and where we were meant to be thinking about the mystery before the 5th final episode capped it off. we might have been sold on the show prior to that, but it wasn't designed to have it's third episode being the ''one'' where it was intended to change peoples thoughts about the series, or that it was of a completely different quality from the first 2 (it wasn't, it was in fact quite similar in that it had great visuals, and a rather trivial puzzle like the first two). Things didn't truly kick off until the 4th episode where things started coming together, and by the fifth we got our answer.
And that really my problem with the 3 episode rule: It assumes that every anime 3rd episode has to be either the ''best'' episode of the introduction or that it has an event that drastically changes how we are supposed to see the anime. The problem is that not every anime is structured like that. With this show, the first arc was separated into 5 episodes, where the 4th episode is where things started shifting gear. Other anime like Fate/Zero doesn't have it's main conflict starting until episode 4&5, and even then it took thing a while before things got going. Steins;Gate didn't truly start until until the mid way point, and if you think about it, the first 3 episodes didn't show much of what the show is really about.
That's the same here. I don't think this is the correct to view anime, since each show is paced differently, has a different time span for it's introductory episodes, and some take longer to take off, and some are quicker.
That said, what really bogs this intro down is the inane mysteries and the lack of good immediate hook. The latter is balanced by the quality of the visuals and the show gradually becoming more interesting, but the former is still a sore point to what I now think is a rather solid opener.
I have a question about episode 1.
Ok i have to admit i am a bit confused.
But like toward the end, when the main character says " I didn't refuse it", what was he referring too?
Was he saying i didn't refuse the problem/mystery ( just didn't want to go all the way to music room)
Was he talking about how he can't refuse her requests?
I was a bit confused. Could some one explain it to me :D.
Ty in advance.
I'll try and keep this spoiler free.
To start, the animation is brilliant. The eyes were done really well, especially Chitanda's.
The story isn't much to write home about but by the end of episode 3 it starts to get going. The mysteries aren't that hard to figure out it's a bit frustrating when you figue it out straight away and have to wait 5 minutes for the characters to realise the answer. I hope the mysteries become progressively harder as the series goes on but I also hope it becomes a Detective Conan, where the story is forgotten about for endless puzzles.
The music is allright. I like the opening theme, it makes me hope that Houtarou will come out of his shell and be more outgoing a cheerful by the end. The ending theme is just okay but it might grow on me.
The characters are pretty good. I really like how creative Houtarou is, he is brilliant at thinking outside the box. Chitanda is his polar oppisote but it can be a bit annoying how 'in-your-face' she is. Satoshi and Ibara aren't very developed yet but I hope to see more of them in later episodes.
All in all, I like the series and am pretty interested on where the story will go. The animation is fantastic, the story is okay but has potential, the music is nice and the characters are interesting.
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