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-   -   Hyouka - Episode 5 Discussion / Poll (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=112351)

Kairin 2012-05-18 20:54

Hyouka - Episode 5 Discussion / Poll
 
Welcome to the discussion thread for Hyouka, Episode 5.

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rulfo 2012-05-20 11:52

An excellent closure for this arc. Enjoyed it very much. Sweet development for Houtaro as well.
Very pleased with how this was handled and that last scene during the revelation was very fitting.

Also Mayaka is so animated in this episode. It seems as though she is Kigami's favorite

Oh and...

Spoiler for loli eru:

sikvod00 2012-05-20 19:48

What a great conclusion to the arc. The imagery at the end of was both sad and gruesome. Also, it looks like Houtaro is becoming less gray after all...

orion 2012-05-20 20:15

Oh man, that was sad and tragic. I would have so kicked the real leader's ass. :frustrated:

ThereminVox 2012-05-20 20:40

I am immensely satisfied with that conclusion, if only because I was sort of expecting things to get a bit supernatural. I'm also glad to see that Oreki nailed the majority of his theory, otherwise the last episode would have felt somewhat hollow.

I'm still more curious about Oreki's sister than anything else, but I guess we'll get to that in time.

Spoiler for Sekitani Jun:

trinitem 2012-05-20 20:44

Oh man, I almost thought that was actually the end with the credits rolling over the arc's epilogue.

They do a really good job with imagery I must say. That animation of the rabbits with the dog had me fixated. Case closed!

TurkeyPotPie 2012-05-20 21:02

I haven't been enthused for Hyouka thus far, but I enjoyed the ending of that arc. No supernatural foolishness and no one was murdered.

OceanBlue 2012-05-20 21:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by TurkeyPotPie (Post 4169251)
I haven't been enthused for Hyouka thus far, but I enjoyed the ending of that arc. No supernatural foolishness and no one was murdered.

Yes, exactly. I'm glad stories don't have to resort to murder to make something interesting.

The ending was a nice wrap-up to the arc. I really liked the imagery with the rabbits and the wolf. It left a really strong impact, especially with a somber story like this one. It wasn't as much the rabbit deforming and biting into the wolf as it was the rabbit looking back, eyes widening, as the other rabbits closed their eyes that really sent chills down my spine.

The pun is like something I would only think of as a child. It completely flew over my head :heh:. It was definitely a nice story, even if the specific clues being puns meant I had to just accept what they were telling me :heh:.

Also, I like the music in the series.

Hiroi Sekai 2012-05-20 22:01

I've got chills, seriously. Such a simple term deriving from a kindergartner's song that was given new meaning in a dark sense. We never think of the term "I scream" as something scary since you just start hearing an ice cream truck in your head at that point, but at its simplest roots the phrase can easily conjure up some scary imagery. Forget the sweet version, close your eyes, and link that term to an abandoned child left in the dark. Envision their setting, then read the words in your mind- at the very least I get some terrifying visions.

That's what I liked about everything so far. A concept so basic it seems pointless to debate and discover, yet it's diverse enough in its execution that it builds up to a satisfying point. While they didn't use any straight-up scary animations (aside from the rabbit being attacked, good god!), the silence and the slowly darkening atmospheres carried everything. It's one of those things that didn't need much dialog and it worked very well.

One thing that I still notice all the time: why are the girls airheaded and the guys are quick to clue in? I mean, in anime (especially harems) we do see a ton of brainless apes wandering around with dumb looks on their faces, but it does feel quite odd that the genders contrast so much here. It's always Chitanda and Ibara saying "what do you mean?" and the males stepping in with immediate answers. Hey, I like the new approach, but I just thought I'd mention that.

Finally, I can never get over how well all of this is animated overall. My favourite concepts here are the shiny eyes that show character, the transitioning storyteller animations that give flavour to an explanation, and the lighting/colouring that can immediately place characters in a daytime to sunset setting which gives everything a proper mood. Love it, can't wait to see next week's episode where they stray from the original titling gimmick and head into a new arc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OceanBlue (Post 4169275)
I really liked the imagery with the rabbits and the wolf. It left a really strong impact, especially with a somber story like this one. It wasn't as much the rabbit deforming and biting into the wolf as it was the rabbit looking back, eyes widening, as the other rabbits closed their eyes that really sent chills down my spine.

Also had to mention this; I definitely agree that the scene made me shiver entirely. The symbolism is quite powerful, and when the lone rabbit looks back to its wrack, every single member turns away, leaving one to take the blame and suffer the consequences. It's a part of the human psyche that we see so much of nowadays that it's simple to cling onto. You can scream all you want, but in this cold world we live in, it's only by chance someone will hear you.

ars89 2012-05-20 22:03

Houtarou's sister is great. So they finally solved it.

OceanBlue 2012-05-20 22:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by papermario13689 (Post 4169298)
Finally, I can never get over how well all of this is animated overall. My favourite concepts here are the shiny eyes that show character, the transitioning storyteller animations that give flavour to an explanation, and the lighting/colouring that can immediately place characters in a daytime to sunset setting which gives everything a proper mood. Love it, can't wait to see next week's episode where they stray from the original titling gimmick and head into a new arc.

I couldn't get over how active Ibara was throughout the episode. She moved as much as Satoshi did during episode 1 :heh:. There's also the extra movements and nice camera angles every episode that really add a nice touch to the show.

Something I really liked was how they showed Oreki shaking his leg. It wasn't supposed to be subtle, but it was a nice way of expressing his discomfort about the thing.

Hiroi Sekai 2012-05-20 22:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by OceanBlue (Post 4169303)
I couldn't get over how active Ibara was throughout the episode. She moved as much as Satoshi did during episode 1 :heh:. There's also the extra movements and nice camera angles ever episode that really add a nice touch to the show.

That's very true, I suppose in a way that actually half-counterbalances her actual contributions in solving the mysteries. That scene where everyone is about to hear the librarian's explanation for the first time, Ibara's stacking books away from the scene. Needless to say she could still hear them talking, but it did add a new dimension to the setting. Cool stuff.

Something I really liked was how they showed Oreki shaking his leg. It wasn't supposed to be subtle, but it was a nice way of expressing his discomfort about the thing.
Yeah, it only happened for a second, but it sure did catch Satoshi's attention and change the tone immediately. For a second I thought he was going to lash out at her for throwing BS at them, but I suppose I overthought it too much. Still, really powerful scene.

Kaoru Chujo 2012-05-20 22:22

Personally, I'm very enthusiastic about this show so far. It's risen to my second-ranked show of the season, after Sakamichi. The people, the imagery, the music, the feelings. All good.

There was animation in this episode that I considered godly. A couple of examples: when everyone was leaving the club room around 09:45, the way they were all moving in various directions picking up their things and then exiting the door. Quite a symphony of controlled motions. At around 06:45, the way Mayaka's leg is bouncing up and down so naturally, giving a second focus of movement in a still scene. KyoAni as I have liked it in the past, but not so much recently.

Great comments about the animation from papermario13689 and OceanBlue.

And Kayano Ai continues to show what a terrific seiyuu she is. Millia in Last Exile Fam, Inori in Guilty Crown, Ume in Ben-to, Muginami in Rinne no Lagrange, and Mayaka here. Range and effectiveness.

I'm certainly hoping we see/hear more of Oreki's sister, since she is played by Yukino Satsuki.

Hiroi Sekai 2012-05-20 22:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo (Post 4169320)
when everyone was leaving the club room around 09:45, the way they were all moving in various directions picking up their things and then exiting the door. Quite a symphony of controlled motions.

Shows how much I've become desensitized by one-sided animation nowadays, I didn't even really catch that. Going back, I really focused on it and now I've got a new scene to add to my "isn't this fascinating?" list.:heh:

Another part I liked: it was when we see the flashback through the years for the librarian. Starting at her current age, there's loud ticking as her age and appearance transitions down in a flash. It's not meant to showcase how she appeared in each age, but to create the gap between her current and previous lifestyles. That's another concept I like and fear thinking about; just how much do we change as we age? Sweet innocence breeds bitter cynicism, and as you move on, you often lose sight of things you treasured as children. Will I hate all of this when I'm 30? 40? It's something I don't really want to think about right now, but the concept still fascinates me.

Chaos2Frozen 2012-05-20 22:54

Now that was quite a tense episode for me :eyespin:

As it turns out Oreki didn't hold back any information last week, but it wasn't a complete mistake as I had thought, it did happen like what he had said, but what he couldn't have known was that Eru's uncle was a scapegoat, and not a willing 'Hero'.

In the end Oreki did make Chitanda cry (as expected :heh:) but those were a different kind of tears, that abit more than a little flag raise :p

novalysis 2012-05-20 23:04

Yes, I did thought of Romantic Flags being raised....especially in the closing scene.

It's a very, very strong finish to the First Arc, though I can't fathom where the show will go from here. Given it's LN source material, that is very, very refreshing.

By the way, it seems that there are quite alot of Shaft-style imitations around this season. Sakarea, Ghost Maiden of Amnesia, and Hyou-ka has some of the highest quality animated visual metaphors yet.

Are we seeing a start of a new trend here in anime, much in the way that the moe character art-style was born?

Chaos2Frozen 2012-05-20 23:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by novalysis (Post 4169376)
By the way, it seems that there are quite alot of Shaft-style imitations around this season. Sakarea, Ghost Maiden of Amnesia, and Hyou-ka has some of the highest quality animated visual metaphors yet.

Are we seeing a start of a new trend here in anime, much in the way that the moe character art-style was born?

Nope, just coincidences :p

The director for Sankarea, Shinichi Omata, worked on multiple Shaft production.

Amnesia is by the studio Silver Link, whose many staff were from Shaft originally.

Guardian Enzo 2012-05-20 23:31

The character design for Itoigawa-sensei as a 16 year-old – despite the fact that this was likely the only time we’ll see it - was absolutely lovely – expressive, vulnerable, beautiful.

The entire montage of Itoigawa-sensei’s trip down memory line was breathtaking – not just the art itself, which was admirable enough, but the idea of having Itoigawa inhabiting herself as an innocent schoolgirl, eavesdropping on the scenes from those days, peeking in windows and through doors, wanting to intervene but unable to do more than observe. It was beautiful and profound – a clever and insightful way of encapsulating the experience of remembering a long ago time full of joys and regrets. The art design for Hyouka isn’t just skillful, it’s ingenious. There’s so much creativity going into it, it’s as if there’s two different screenplays at work in the show, the written one and the visual one. And the second one is more creative and arresting than the first.

novalysis 2012-05-21 01:01

Well, it is to be expected. The material currently being animated originates from 2001. That basically predates most of the source Light Novels whose anime adaptation set the standard for what is cliche for the general genre and story type Hyouka resides in.

In other words, since Hyouka predates most of the canon of Light Novels that set the standard of what is conventional, it's very unfair to lambest it for being unoriginal, because the very definition of what counts as Original in Hyoukas story type had not even yet colaced when Hyouka was written. Now, if Hyouka was adapted from a Post 2005+ LN, or better yet, a recently published LN, then I think you have a point here. But it's a little unreasonable to tar Hyouka for being not very creative, when the modern standards of what counts as creative in Hyouka's genre had only just begun to take shape back in 2001, when Hyouka was first written.

If the Shafty style animes do sell well this season, a though proposition considering the insanely strong field out there, then I do think we can expect to see more imitators trying to convey concepts and emotions not through faces, but abstract symbolism.

Reckoner 2012-05-21 02:53

This episode posed problems for the non Japanese speaking individual as the eventual solution to the mystery, well the nuance to it at least, required an understanding of the Japanese written language and well you know, I only speak english so this point flew over my head. This isn't the show's problem of course, but appreciating the mystery is impossible for me here.

Overall I have to say that this anime has been improving little by little since its terrible start. The main character I've warmed up to a bit, but I still don't find him remarkably interesting or entertaining. I'm not really much for either of the girls in this show because one is just a grump while the other is just a spaz. But whatever, the cast is at the very least largely inoffensive, but by far this is not the strongest part of this work.

Of course where this series shines the most is its visuals, but its application of them at times is a bit uneven. A lot of the time they're caught giving unnecessary attention to detail, overloading scenes with pointless animation, but this episode they got it just right. Most of the episode was normal animation and the one scene where we went into the past is where they unleashed the creativity. That's how it's done. More meaningful visual input is appreciated rather than more motion for the sake of it.

For me these last 3 episodes were either sink or swim really, but for now Hyouka is swimming. I don't think it's anywhere with the other great series this season, but it is at the moment passable. In fact, I would even give this latest episode the thumbs up. Lets see if they can continue to build up after a very rocky and slow start.

7.5/10


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