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-   -   Senkaku/Diaoyu/Tiaoyutai/Pinnacle Islands dispute (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=114790)

RRW 2012-09-16 19:07

Senkaku/Diaoyu/Tiaoyutai/Pinnacle Islands dispute
 
http://i.imgur.com/zGuuh.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senkaku_Islands_dispute

this actually already been debated since end of WW2. the idea being that japan capture the island at WW2. when japan lose they must give back land that they capture to china. the question weather this island is part of agreement?

it was bit calm down until recent news where japan gov decide to buy the island

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news...-1226465696624

of course china would not let this happend so they send the patrol. and then japan, then taiwan.

http://ww4.hdnux.com/photos/15/12/72.../3/628x471.jpg

well so far the sea is calm.

the ground on other hand...

Dynamic tag cannot be rendered. (PrintableThread)
... Chinese people destroying japan stuff in china.

apparently it spreading to 80 city or so

more pic

http://imgur.com/a/Y7oIp/all

Domonkazu 2012-09-16 19:24

omg, I hope no one died because of this stupidity.

MakubeX2 2012-09-16 19:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by RRW (Post 4355791)
[... Chinese people destroying japan stuff in china.

apparently it spreading to 80 city or so

Like I said in the News Thread, they are hypocritical opportunist who just wants to loot just about anything for their gain in the name of being "Patriotic" while in fact they are still using Japanese exports in their home.

They can't even distinguish a Mercedes from a Mitsubishi :-
http://imageshack.us/a/img267/7127/1347801278162.jpghttp://imageshack.us/a/img507/3522/1347824207370.jpg

And some are shameless even enough to admit their agenda :-
http://imageshack.us/a/img685/9405/1347801579833.jpg

NoemiChan 2012-09-16 19:34

Funny why is China starting the land disputes... she's really making herself a bad neighbor....

She's against with Vietnam, Malaysia, Philippines, Taiwan, South Korea and Japan... Is she really trying to provoke a "just" war?!

lml99 2012-09-16 19:35

Geez.......why is it that not even the current generation can get past conflicts from over 6 decades ago? I thought young people in China were progressive! I mean, Israel and Germany don't have any problems now, and the U.S. and Russia aren't nearly as bad as this..........

MakubeX2 2012-09-16 19:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by lml99 (Post 4355843)
Geez.......why is it that not even the current generation can get past conflicts from over 6 decades ago? I thought young people in China were progressive! I mean, Israel and Germany don't have any problems now, and the U.S. and Russia aren't nearly as bad as this..........

Chances are they are not really that Patriotic. The "Anti-Japanese" banner are just a mean to achieve their own agenda.

SeijiSensei 2012-09-16 19:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by lml99 (Post 4355843)
Geez.......why is it that not even the current generation can get past conflicts from over 6 decades ago? I thought young people in China were progressive! I mean, Israel and Germany don't have any problems now, and the U.S. and Russia aren't nearly as bad as this..........

I suggest watching this now six-year-old documentary by the PBS news program FRONTLINE:

http://www.pbs.org/frontlineworld/ro...and_china.html

This program was produced after the controversy over the introduction of new history textbooks in Japan in 2005. The level of tension today is substantially worse, largely abetted and exacerbated by political forces in both countries.

http://rendezvous.blogs.nytimes.com/...sland-dispute/

The recent discussion about the Senkakus in the News Stories thread begins around here if you're interested: http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?p=4315546

KiraYamatoFan 2012-09-16 20:32

I have yet to wait after midnight to watch this PBS video (rush hours), but it should be interesting. About that article on the NY Times, one of the comments posted in response was quite interesting:

Quote:

To what end is China ratcheting up the tensions over these islands? Well, the Chinese Communist Party realizes that it has largely lost its legitimacy. It dropped Maoism and its only remaining ideology is 'get rich any way you can.' China's citizens realize that the CCP is merely a nationwide money making racket, but as long as enough people are getting richer they seem willing to tolerate it. But now with their economy slowing, what else can the CCP lean on to legitimize its existence?

Chinese nationalism is all the CCP has left. So Chinese are bombarded from cradle to grave with stories about China's aggrieved history and imbued with a sense of national victimhood. The leadership calculates that by finding an outside enemy that they can distract their own people from the injustices of their own misrule.

Patriotism, the last refuge of the scoundrel.
Thoughts?

Tom Bombadil 2012-09-16 21:12

I wrote something quite long, only to lose them because of the bad connection. But the whole point is "those idiots does not represents China".

JokerD 2012-09-16 21:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan (Post 4355907)
I have yet to wait after midnight to watch this PBS video (rush hours), but it should be interesting. About that article on the NY Times, one of the comments posted in response was quite interesting:



Thoughts?

Yes, I do think that is that case to a certain extent, the more you protest against external forces the less you protest against internal stuff. Maybe it gives China an excuse not to back down.

On the other side of the coin, this is an anime forum, given where anime comes from, I don't really think we'll find much voices sympathetic to China here :heh:
(I could be wrong)

SeijiSensei 2012-09-16 21:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan (Post 4355907)
I have yet to wait after midnight to watch this PBS video (rush hours), but it should be interesting. About that article on the NY Times, one of the comments posted in response was quite interesting:

Thoughts?

Well, as I live in the States I have no way of knowing how accurate a perception that may be. However I suggest reading this other story from the Times about how the Chinese actions in the Senkakus might be the expression of factional conflict within the CCP in advance of the leadership succession. They also suggest it might represent an expansion of the military's control over Chinese foreign policy:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/16/wo...-in-china.html

Yu Ominae 2012-09-16 21:43

Analysts are reporting from the BBC's Asia business program that Japanese businessmen could move their production facilities to Southeast Asia if the riots would get out of control.

Kyuu 2012-09-16 22:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by GenjiChan (Post 4355839)
Funny why is China starting the land disputes... she's really making herself a bad neighbor....

She's against with Vietnam, Malaysia, Philippines, Taiwan, South Korea and Japan... Is she really trying to provoke a "just" war?!

Being at the center of all that -- China would likely lose.

bhl88 2012-09-16 22:24

lol the Senkaku is close to China, but from Spratly's which is closer to the Philippines, the Chinese are trying to claim it.

Kyuu 2012-09-16 22:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhl88 (Post 4356063)
lol the Senkaku is close to China, but from Spratly's which is closer to the Philippines, the Chinese are trying to claim it.

Don't you love double-standards?:rolleyes:

Terrestrial Dream 2012-09-16 22:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by GenjiChan (Post 4355839)
Funny why is China starting the land disputes... she's really making herself a bad neighbor....

She's against with Vietnam, Malaysia, Philippines, Taiwan, South Korea and Japan... Is she really trying to provoke a "just" war?!

Well it is not like Japan is exactly a saint. Japan has territorial disputes with Korea, China, and Russia.

Anyway, should this topic include Okinotorishima as well?

Vanish 2012-09-16 22:39

My ethnicity is Chinese. I compare the raging rioters breaking anything loosely connected to Japan to raging kids who would actually throw their PC out of the window because they lost in a game, with the inability to question themselves and thus blame whatever happened on something unrelated merely in a similar spectrum. I don't mean to generalize China but come on, stop destroying yourself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Domonkazu (Post 4355817)
omg, I hope no one died because of this stupidity.

Too late... the only case I heard of was a boy trampled over by the mob but I am sure there are plenty more casualties. Heavily injured if not dead.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Bombadil (Post 4355954)
I wrote something quite long, only to lose them because of the bad connection. But the whole point is "those idiots does not represents China".

This is true but sadly it is not perceived as such by most people. The way news do their reports also don't help the viewpoint of ignorant people.

SaintessHeart 2012-09-16 22:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yu Ominae (Post 4355999)
Analysts are reporting from the BBC's Asia business program that Japanese businessmen could move their production facilities to Southeast Asia if the riots would get out of control.

The problem is with domestic market - China has a pretty large market for Japanese goods and products (and hentai), moving out of there will not only reduce their market hold, they also stand to lose alot of their production technology through know-how surrenders to the CCP when they leave.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyuu (Post 4356057)
Being at the center of all that -- China would likely lose.

Nah China will win. Have you seen the crap militaries we have here? :heh:

Even if you are talking about a modern military, the most advanced one can easily be subverted to China's cause - it isn't called a little RED dot for no apparent reason. [/sarcasm]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vanish (Post 4356091)
This is true but sadly it is not perceived as such by most people. The way news do their reports also don't help the viewpoint of ignorant people.

Due to ethnic Chinese being the largest population in the world, this is how we differentiate the assholes of our race with the moderate nice-ones. This is called being specific and there isn't anything wrong with that.

I am supposed to be considered ethnic Chinese (/w diluted Malay blood), but I don't mind those insults being thrown because due to the fact that it is those dungballs that look like us doing all these crap; more often than not gently talking to those "xenophobics" and "racists" over here and telling him that you are a local on his/her side would result in an apology.

Seitsuki 2012-09-16 22:54

I believe there's an underlying cultural problem. We get satellite TV over here from China and by far the two most popular and numerous types of programs are either set in the Warring states-Three kingdoms period, romanticising imperialism and a time when China was considered strong and at it's influential/cultural peak, or the whole WWII era with heroic resistance fighters bravely fighting the Japanese war machine with all the stereotypes you can think of. I do think that people are heavily influenced by the society and values which surround them, and patriotism and nationalism go hand in hand. Reason is cute and all but is surprisingly rare and, unfortunately, by definition the less vocal voice.

Saintess I'm curious, if asked would you refer to yourself as a Chinese or Singaporean? Judging from the similar protests in America, integration isn't something that happens quickly or easily however many generations have passed. How far does it go?

SaintessHeart 2012-09-16 23:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seitsuki (Post 4356110)
I believe there's an underlying cultural problem. We get satellite TV over here from China and by far the two most popular and numerous types of programs are either set in the Warring states-Three kingdoms period, romanticising imperialism and a time when China was considered strong and at it's influential/cultural peak, or the whole WWII era with heroic resistance fighters bravely fighting the Japanese war machine with all the stereotypes you can think of. I do think that people are heavily influenced by the society and values which surround them, and patriotism and nationalism go hand in hand. Reason is cute and all but is surprisingly rare and, unfortunately, by definition the less vocal voice.

I wish I could think that way, but I would say it is more of an indoctrination than cultural problem. It seems that they have been brainwashed into thinking that the Chinese are a superior race, and any Chinese who doesn't side with China is automatically a traitor or a foreign dog.

Quote:

Saintess I'm curious, if asked would you refer to yourself as a Chinese or Singaporean? Judging from the similar protests in America, integration isn't something that happens quickly or easily however many generations have passed. How far does it go?
Integration here is pretty into it because all of us guys serve NS - we mix with almost everyone else from another race and literally eat, sleep, bathe and suffer for 2 years together. Although there are a few isolated cases of "racism" (an all Malay gang beating up two Chinese guys for staring, all Singapore citizens), we do actually get along fine.

And like the general sentiment of HK, TW, IDN, PH and MY Chinese, we don't exactly like mainlanders because they bring their culture of hardcore darwinism here and expect us to follow as "China is a whole lot fucking bigger than your little speck on Earth".

And who would I refer myself as? I'll just quote Bruce Lee when asked if he sees himself as a Chinese or American :

Quote:

As a human being.
Though in this case I feel that blasting these greedy assholes is a duty as a human being despite being removed multiple times.


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