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-   -   Madoka Magica - Magic, Contracts, and stuff. Yeah, stuff. Timey wimey stuff. (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=116429)

B2-Lancer 2012-11-25 07:14

Madoka Magica - Magic, Contracts, and stuff. Yeah, stuff. Timey wimey stuff.
 
Just what do we know about these "contracts"? Do the anime or light novel ever explain why QB's race seems to require them, or why -- if they're so powerful, why don't they just forcibly draft girls to do their bidding? Is there an even higher power demanding QB's race to use such rules and bargains?

KoiYuki 2012-11-25 09:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by B2-Lancer (Post 4450649)
Just what do we know about these "contracts"? Do the anime or light novel ever explain why QB's race seems to require them, or why -- if they're so powerful, why don't they just forcibly draft girls to do their bidding? Is there an even higher power demanding QB's race to use such rules and bargains?

Dunno if you watched the show, so this'll be spoiler-filled if you haven't. This goes into a lot of detail about him/it: http://wiki.puella-magi.net/Kyubey

Basically, they somehow can convert emotions into energy, which is used to counter entropy (the heat death of the universe). They seem to not force anyone because they think it's more fair and mutually beneficial to do it this way (and I don't know if they CAN force anyone). There doesn't seem to be a higher power making them/it do it.

AuraTwilight 2012-11-25 13:03

Indeed, the power of the contract comes from the girl, and so it's optimal to get the girl's consent. The more the wish comes from their deepest desires and sincere emotions, the more energy that's released in the process. Drafting a girl into making a wish they don't care about is a complete waste of a contract.

And the Incubators aren't actually magical themselves, so I highly doubt they COULD force it. They don't even know how it actually works beyond how to perform it.

SPARTAN 119 2012-11-25 13:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA (Post 4386426)
http://www.crunchyroll.com/anime-new...t-magical-girl

There are power levels for Madoka (1-3). I'm guessing the numbers correspond to the loop number, with the 4th and 5th excluded because she's no longer a traditional Puella Magi by then.


As per offense, I'm assuming it only refers to magical offensive abilities, as Homura's conventional ordnance managed to kill Charlotte, who Mami's attacks failed to to defeat, implying counting her arsenal, Homura has more firepower than Mami.

B2-Lancer 2012-11-25 14:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by KoiYuki (Post 4450761)
Dunno if you watched the show, so this'll be spoiler-filled if you haven't. This goes into a lot of detail about him/it: [

Thanks for the page tip, only they don't explain it either. I'll keep looking.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight (Post 4451066)
Indeed, the power of the contract comes from the girl, and so it's optimal to get the girl's consent. The more the wish comes from their deepest desires and sincere emotions, the more energy that's released in the process. Drafting a girl into making a wish they don't care about is a complete waste of a contract.

(Oh, I'm sure there're lots of girls who'd happily be drafted blind to have any wish fulfilled!) But in the current situation, without any outside compelling or coercion, then it implies a spirited girl could break the contract without any repercussions, would that sound possible? Of all the thousands of girls thru history there MUST'VE been more than a few rebellious types who felt royally screwed and told QB to chuck it. (Can't believe they were all good mannered little girls who did as they were told!). Does QB assassinate such rebels and malcontents to keep the status quo? Or do we actually know what happens to a magic girl who simply quits fighting and retires to a peaceful life that can't feed the seed? Surely some must've tried the nun's life! It might be that shut-mouthed QB doesn't give the girls any ideas that jilting the contract is possible! Or maybe "contract" is a misnomer and what KB's really offering is a sealed no body back deal. But someone here sparked a good idea; maybe the idea of a "contact" really acts like a kind of sly subconscious key to "turn on" a girl's latent power, kind of like a sorcer needs certain key incantations to unlock powerful spells. That's an interesting concept! It could mean a girl has an ability to break the contract more than she knows! I also like the notion that QB's race might have "overlords" watching over them and the contract thing and dishing out powers as required; it always puzzled me that QB's race was able to grant Madoka god-like powers apparently beyond their own, even surprising a clueless QB at the end. How can you grant one power that you don't have yourself -- unless it's handed down from somewhere else? Plus granting any wish that potentially powerful would've been suicidal to QB's race in the hands of a less bleeding-heart shrewder girl. How could QB let that one slip by? IMHO.

KoiYuki 2012-11-25 16:06

Oh boy.. It doesn't sound like you even watched the show, which would answer pretty much all your questions.. :heh:

Spoiler for big plot spoilers:

B2-Lancer 2012-11-25 17:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by KoiYuki (Post 4451249)
Oh boy.. It doesn't sound like you even watched the show, which would answer pretty much all your questions.. :heh:

Spoiler for big plot spoilers:

Actually I stuffed all the torrent episodes on my flash drives almost a year ago. I'm just trying to fill the gaps and holes the series glosses over. I don't know about the novels tho', so maybe the answer's there.

NTFTH 2012-11-25 22:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by B2-Lancer (Post 4451166)
Thanks for the page tip, only they don't explain it either. I'll keep looking.



(Oh, I'm sure there're lots of girls who'd happily be drafted blind to have any wish fulfilled!) But in the current situation, without any outside compelling or coercion, then it implies a spirited girl could break the contract without any repercussions, would that sound possible? Of all the thousands of girls thru history there MUST'VE been more than a few rebellious types who felt royally screwed and told QB to chuck it. (Can't believe they were all good mannered little girls who did as they were told!). Does QB assassinate such rebels and malcontents to keep the status quo? Or do we actually know what happens to a magic girl who simply quits fighting and retires to a peaceful life that can't feed the seed? Surely some must've tried the nun's life! It might be that shut-mouthed QB doesn't give the girls any ideas that jilting the contract is possible! Or maybe "contract" is a misnomer and what KB's really offering is a sealed no body back deal. But someone here sparked a good idea; maybe the idea of a "contact" really acts like a kind of sly subconscious key to "turn on" a girl's latent power, kind of like a sorcer needs certain key incantations to unlock powerful spells. That's an interesting concept! It could mean a girl has an ability to break the contract more than she knows! I also like the notion that QB's race might have "overlords" watching over them and the contract thing and dishing out powers as required; it always puzzled me that QB's race was able to grant Madoka god-like powers apparently beyond their own, even surprising a clueless QB at the end. How can you grant one power that you don't have yourself -- unless it's handed down from somewhere else? Plus granting any wish that potentially powerful would've been suicidal to QB's race in the hands of a less bleeding-heart shrewder girl. How could QB let that one slip by? IMHO.

Spoiler for Kazumi Magica Spoilers:

Solace 2012-11-25 23:47

Madoka Magica - Magic, Contracts, and stuff. Yeah, stuff.
 
Figured I'd split this off into a more general discussion thread. As always, please observe the forum rules. ;) Also:

Dynamic tag cannot be rendered. (PrintableThread)

Triple_R 2012-11-26 06:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight (Post 4451066)
Indeed, the power of the contract comes from the girl, and so it's optimal to get the girl's consent. The more the wish comes from their deepest desires and sincere emotions, the more energy that's released in the process. Drafting a girl into making a wish they don't care about is a complete waste of a contract.

And the Incubators aren't actually magical themselves, so I highly doubt they COULD force it. They don't even know how it actually works beyond how to perform it.

Exactly.

In fact, I'm fond of the idea that the magical power resides within the girls themselves (and hence within humanity itself), but we just don't know how to get it out yet.

The Incubators have the technological capability for getting it out, but they need humans to manipulate their own magical power once its been extracted (along with the soul) and placed into a Soul Gem.

maximilianjenus 2012-11-26 10:37

We got evidence of magicla girls living to their late 20s (mayeb she just stopped fighting witches at some point, we don't have that data), though the one we have evidence for eventually becomes a witch too, possibly becasue of the stress of adult life.

Triple_R 2012-11-26 11:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by maximilianjenus (Post 4452178)
We got evidence of magicla girls living to their late 20s (mayeb she just stopped fighting witches at some point, we don't have that data), though the one we have evidence for eventually becomes a witch too, possibly becasue of the stress of adult life.

Suppose a really proficient Witch-killer/Grief Seed-collector managed to collect hundreds upon hundreds of Grief Seeds (I recall a game screenshot of Kyouko where she's hoarding Grief Seeds like Scrooge McDuck hoards gold coins :heh: ). With enough Grief Seeds, you could have a "lifetime supply" that could see you last 50, 60, 70 years (presuming you keep magic use down to a minimum).

Eventually (if possible), you die a natural death. Or, if the aging process is drastically different for Puella Magi, maybe you could go hunting more witches again and/or accept that you've lived a normal lifespan and commit suicide with a bullet through your Soul Gem.

This is probably the closest to "Winning!" (in a Charlie Sheen sense :p) that a Puella Magi could hope to achieve.

AuraTwilight 2012-11-26 17:54

Speaking of magic residing in humanity, doesn't Madoka exhibit signs of magic before contracting?

Not only does she dream of previous timelines, but in the episode where Sayaka makes her Magical Girl debut, Madoka throws a bucket of bleach out the window, which inexplicably cracks before the bucket makes contact with the glass.

Could this be a result of Madoka's enormous potential, or a sign that every human can do negligible magical effects?

maximilianjenus 2012-11-27 10:24

I say no, since we have not ahd had further proof of that; I am not even sure of the previous timelines thing, as the madoka universe seems to go mostly by parallel universes and not time resets; though in the latest interview gen did not say anything specific about that, just that he had not completely fleshed it out.

AuraTwilight 2012-11-27 13:34

It's basically both, honestly; either way though, Madoka dreaming of universes that aren't her own are a factual thing.

maximilianjenus 2012-11-28 10:40

True, though we can't say it was a dream per se as it was persistent memories from one universe to the other that got disregarded as dreams becasue of the time that they happen at. it's possible that everybody gets those "dreams" ocne homura reset, though I prefer it that it's only amdoka because of her karmic charge.

AuraTwilight 2012-11-28 15:33

That's entirely semantics, Max. The point is she is remembering something that is blatantly preternatural, and is thus a sign of magic. No one else in the series exhibits these dreams anytime else, and only Madoka feels any deja vu about anything.

You still haven't explained the window thing either.

KoiYuki 2012-11-28 16:29

Knowing SHAFT, the window thing might've been an animation error...

Though Madoka does remember stuff from previous timelines. In fact, in the 4th timeline, she says "Homu" when Homura shows up at her window. This couldn't have been after Homuras transferred in, because Madoka would've contracted already, so it had to be before, at a point that'd stop her from doing so.

maximilianjenus 2012-11-28 17:26

It's all very dependant how the parallel universe/system reset works, we could argue that madoka is a mahou shoujo and is already in the mahou shoujo karmic network long before homura became a mahou shoujo, so she won't be anything special magic wise.

KoiYuki 2012-11-28 18:16

...Huh? How could we argue that? Madoka couldn't be a magical girl before Homura's reset date... Not to mention, I'm not quite sure what you're even saying. :confused:


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