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-   -   Psycho-Pass - Episode 11 Discussion / Poll (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=116891)

monir 2012-12-20 02:16

Psycho-Pass - Episode 11 Discussion / Poll
 
Welcome to the discussion thread for Psycho-Pass, Episode 11.

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MisaoFan 2012-12-20 11:40

Spoiler for Episode 11:

Bern-san 2012-12-20 12:26

Very very intense episode. When it finished I was like whaaat? already over?

Spoiler for 11:

Roger Rambo 2012-12-20 12:54

Spoiler for spoilers:

Awrya 2012-12-20 14:10

Another masterpiece.

If this was any other show, after Kogami killed the cyborg, you'd expect that they will receive help and everyone returns home save, but Urobuchi tops it with an incredible twist.

I wonder if Tsunemori and Makishima have the same kind of condition, her friends did say that her Psycho-Pass always stays clear.

Roger Rambo 2012-12-20 14:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Awrya (Post 4483120)
I wonder if Tsunemori and Makishima have the same kind of condition, her friends did say that her Psycho-Pass always stays clear.

It's certainly bears questioning. Mind, Akane and Makishima seem to be very different people. What with Akane's exceptional prosocial empathetic people skills contrasting with Makishima who...at his core is basically just a sociopathic murderer.


Mind. The idea that someone could have a healthy Psycho-Pass but still engage in sadistic behavior isn't new. We got introduced to it with the people at the robotics factory. It looks like Makishima could just be this dialed up to 11...with the self control that he's able
Spoiler for spoilers:

monir 2012-12-20 14:48

*Takes a deeeeeeep breathe*

I think I forgot to breathe at some point. I rarely give an episode 9 but I just had to break my resolve for this one. The episode did not pull any punches.

Congratulations to all of us who have correctly predicted how Makishima's crime coefficient might be read by a Dominator. The more resolute he became to kill, lower his crime coefficient number got. His number read zero when he carried it out. Good bye, Yuki.

ookamigirl 2012-12-20 14:55

The fox hunt continues..
That gun that enforcers have really is something amazing!
Kogami is the best and that's a fact.
Makishima is no quitter, he's just a psycho with a plan.
I was surprised his crime coefficient was low.
Akane was powerless and the Dominator was junk.
It's impossible, Makishima has an inborn ability to fool Sybil system.

ars89 2012-12-20 14:58

Wow Makishima's crime coefficient constantly decreasing as he got closer to killing Yuki was interesting. Seems to have broken Akane, wonder if her cc will increase. Kogami is lucky to still be in one piece though. Urobuchi really is creating a masterpiece here.

Algent 2012-12-20 15:17

I almost forgot to breathe :hyper-^v^:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger Rambo (Post 4483139)
the closer he gets to a kill, the more at peace he becomes.

Yep it seem so, it's scary. When it got to 0 I was like WTF :heh:.
Akane is foreshadowed to have the same issues with Sybil.

Aqua Knight 2012-12-20 15:42

I feel so sorry for Yuki :(
I really wanted her to live, especially when she said that Kougami was amazing...

orion 2012-12-20 16:12

But she also wanted to be a latent criminal. So maybe she contacted Makishima first and was talking about Akane and that's how she became the hostage.

I forgot to breathe after Akane fired the weapon.

I agree with Roger Rambo. Makishima is a sociopath.

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-are-the...sociopathy.htm

Roger Rambo 2012-12-20 16:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algent (Post 4483165)
Yep it seem so, it's scary. When it got to 0 I was like WTF :heh:.
Akane is foreshadowed to have the same issues with Sybil.

In a roundabout way.

Akane's problem is that Sybill takes people who she thinks of as victims or fundamentally decent people and considers them latent criminals to be killed or imprisoned. Mikishima's problem with the system...is that he's a MONSTER and the system somehow doesn't recognize him as such.

Key Board 2012-12-20 16:57

remember the Psychopath vs Sociopath discussion months ago?

See this is an exact example why the Psychopass system only works against Psychopaths but are ineffective against Sociopaths

MisaoFan 2012-12-20 17:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Key Board (Post 4483275)
remember the Psychopath vs Sociopath discussion months ago?

See this is an exact example why the Psychopass system only works against Psychopaths but are ineffective against Sociopaths

Since the system doesn't really work on Akane, does that means she's a sociopath ? I can't believe Shougo is a sociopath as well as his hue has and will always be pure white.

Kanon 2012-12-20 17:02

That was definitely a breathtaking episode.

Akane and Makishima's confrontation was incredibly tense and chilling. Now nobody will be able to argue that the Sibyl system is flawless. When an obvious murderous sociopath like Makishima is seen as an upstanding citizen by the system, you know something is seriously wrong. How many other people like him are there around, and how many people have been misjudged by the system over the years? The revelation that the Sibyl system is not 100% reliable should lead to a major upheaval... if that information is made public, that is. I have a feeling the upper brass will prevent Akane from revealing it. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if they were already aware of this and purposely withheld that information from the public, perhaps because by the time they found out about that flaw it was already too late to back out.

Makishima is becoming more and more fascinating. I think he made a good point: inspectors and enforcers are little more than puppets of Sibyl. They act like robots, always following Sibyl's judgment, never questioning it. They never truly pulled the trigger out of their own will, they were simply following instructions (they don't even have the option to override the dominator's settings, they can't shoot if the system doesn't allow them too). They never felt the weight of the lives they took, they see the criminals as nothing more than trash because Sibyl tells them so. Akane is a bad example however, since she is a complete rookie and she actually still tries to think for herself. No doubt this experience will shake her belief in the system even further.

Can't wait to see how the events of this episode have affected Akane. Her reactions in this episode were very human, so we can forget the theories about her being a psychopath. I hope the next episode will also put an end to all the theories about her being like Makishima and show that her hue is clouded. IMO, she is very much a normal person, who simply happens to be stronger will and more optimistic than most. That should change soon.

Key Board 2012-12-20 17:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisaoFan (Post 4483278)
Since the system doesn't really work on Akane, does that means she's a sociopath ? I can't believe Shougo is a sociopath as well as his hue has and will always be pure white.

The system works by detecting latent stress, aggression and violent thoughts..

Psychopaths are driven by contempt, ego and anger.

Sociopaths are people who lack conscience and empathy. Their mind operates on a different level.
They simply do not feel anything at all towards their victims.
They can kill with a smile because in their mind they are not killing someone.
It would be like like killing 10 enemy mobs for a quest in some MMORPG or a child killing a bug.

It's seems to me the Shogo is a sociopath and thus, can not be registered by the system.

Roger Rambo 2012-12-20 17:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Key Board (Post 4483275)
remember the Psychopath vs Sociopath discussion months ago?

See this is an exact example why the Psychopass system only works against Psychopaths but are ineffective against Sociopaths

I'm pretty sure quite a few of the latent criminals we've been dealing with have been Sociopaths. Rikako was able to perfectly blend in at her school, and Senguji while perhaps rather creepy, was a prominient public official who nobody suspected of being a loony psychopath. All their main issues was an inability to feel empathy for their victims. The fact that they were able to carry out planned killings like this argues against them being psychopaths. Makishima is definitely a sociopath in terms of his behavior...the only thing that off about him is probably that he doesn't biomechanically or neurologically fit the patter for what the Dominator recognizes as a Sociopath.


To me, that suggests somebody with an INCREDIBLE(Almost unnatural) amount of mental discipline and self control. Who can compartmentalize his thoughts with a clarity of mind that the system doesn't recognize him as a latent criminal.




*Besides, it wouldn't make sense for the system to not be able to recognize straight sociopaths. Maximum security prisons have plenty of interred serial killers to be studied to determine the neurological definition of a serial killer...Makishima is likely something different.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanon (Post 4483284)
That was definitely a breathtaking episode.

Akane and Makishima's confrontation was incredibly tense and chilling. Now nobody will be able to argue that the Sibyl system is flawless. When an obvious murderous sociopath like Makishima is seen as an upstanding citizen by the system, you know something is seriously wrong. How many other people like him are there around, and how many people have been misjudged by the system over the years? The revelation that the Sibyl system is not 100% reliable should lead to a major upheaval... if that information is made public, that is. I have a feeling the upper brass will prevent Akane from revealing it. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if they were already aware of this and purposely withheld that information from the public, perhaps because by the time they found out about that flaw it was already too late to back out.

I don't think anybody ever argued the Sibyl system was perfect. We've been seeing plenty of flaws in it. Mostly in it's inability to handle outlier situations. In that sense, having an extremely aneurotypical criminal register like this on scans isn't really too surprising.


Though I think you overestimate the kinda reaction to this kind of thing. Even if most people heard about this case, they'd likely just explain it by saying the dominator was probably malfunctioning. Or the system had a hiccup. Considering that the majority of the population isn't actively worried about being incorrectly read by a dominator, this kind of situation might cause a bit of a stir if it came to light, but I don't think it'd cause the kind of existential angst over their trust in the system like you're saying.

edit: Another thing to consider. If Makishima uses his Haxor hacking abilities to delete the Dominators recording of his face...then Akane's superiors will have a much easier explanation for why she wasn't able to judge Makishima. OBVIOUSLY he must have hacked the gun to keep it from working.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanon (Post 4483284)
Makishima is becoming more and more fascinating. I think he made a good point: inspectors and enforcers are little more than puppets of Sibyl. They act like robots, always following Sibyl's judgment, never questioning it. They never truly pulled the trigger out of their own will, they were simply following instructions (they don't even have the option to override the dominator's settings, they can't shoot if the system doesn't allow them too). They never felt the weight of the lives they took, they see the criminals as nothing more than trash because Sibyl tells them so. Akane is a bad example however, since she is a complete rookie and she actually still tries to think for herself. No doubt this experience will shake her belief in the system even further.

The individual observation that Makishima made isn't a bad one, but the ultimate point he's trying to work up to...is ultimately bunk because he's a pretentious mass murderer.


Yes, the Enforcers are in many ways just a component in an automated execution system, but that's not exactly an endorsement of his philosophy of "If people feel like hacking each-other to bits for shits and giggles, feel free to do so!".

Makishima is less of a revolutionary, and more of a pseudo intellectual serial killer.

Key Board 2012-12-20 17:33

well. a score of zero does indicate that he has a very particular mind set

at this rate I won't be surprised if goes into the negatives

Kanon 2012-12-20 17:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger Rambo (Post 4483325)
To me, that suggests somebody with an INCREDIBLE(Almost unnatural) amount of mental discipline and self control. Who can compartmentalize his thoughts with a clarity of mind that the system doesn't recognize him as a latent criminal.

I don't believe it has anything to do with discipline or self control since he himself stated he was born this way. His psycho pass has always been pure white. He's probably a "new" kind of sociopath, one whose makeup is completely different from regular ones. He is an abnormal among abnormals.


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