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-   -   Shin Sekai Yori - Episode 21 Discussion / Poll (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=118016)

Skyfall 2013-02-22 00:13

Shin Sekai Yori - Episode 21 Discussion / Poll
 
Welcome to the discussion thread for Shin Sekai Yori, Episode 21.

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NoemiChan 2013-02-22 06:22

I hope this will be exciting... Hope we have a good fight....

kuromitsu 2013-02-22 21:34

Wow, this was overall a pretty strong episode. I expected a bit more from the first part, though...

Spoiler for part A:


The second part, though, made up for everything, it was really good.

Spoiler for part B:


By the way, is it just me or is someone else also bothered by Shisei's smoke writings being in present day kanji/kana? I mean, they made a show of how the writing has mutated over 1000 years in the previous episodes, and I thought it was really neat. So the appearance of present day style writing already bothered me a little in Maria's letter but I thought whatever, just one slip-up. But by now it's been many slip-ups. Oh well, I'm just nitpicking. :heh:

SagaraSouske 2013-02-22 22:19

I still can't understand why can't anyone sacrifice themselves to kill the Akki and die.

NoemiChan 2013-02-22 22:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by SagaraSouske (Post 4565320)
I still can't understand why can't anyone sacrifice themselves to kill the Akki and die.

Survival instinct can be done in two ways:

> Fight to survive

and

> Hide to survive

Key Board 2013-02-22 23:16

Oh, so that why they were planning to keep a few villagers alive

shouldn't have seen that coming, but it is still disturbing.. and effective

Key Board 2013-02-22 23:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by SagaraSouske (Post 4565320)
I still can't understand why can't anyone sacrifice themselves to kill the Akki and die.

I think the feedback activates the moment you knowingly commit to do it

frubam 2013-02-23 00:02

Such a tense episode. I can't believe Yakomaru's foul plans! Actually, for a moment, I thought they would suggest that the queerats had impregnated a girl (>.>). Still, I have no idea when they even figured out that Maria and Mamoru had a child and that Yakomaru took it(it was the obvious conclusion, but they haven't even mentioned the possibility until Satoru said it as if it was an established fact). Judging from Inui's story, I don't know if that means Maria and Mamoru were enslaved and killed once she had the child, or that the queerats were keeping hidden tabs on them and struck the moment they let their guard down(e.g. stepped away from the child and come back to find him/her gone).

Question now is; how to stop him? Yakomaru is probably deep in hiding somewhere. I wonder if either the devilish image Saki saw in the teenage arc or maybe even some design Shuu may have implanted on her will change the tide of things?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Key Board (Post 4565410)
I think the feedback activates the moment you knowingly commit to do it

Indeed, that was my impression of it, like a virus blocker.

Entravity 2013-02-23 00:35

Finally, get detailed on Yakomaru's ultimate plan. It's kind of what I expected but not quite. Very interesting and incredibly tense as usual. The desperation by the humans is something else.

roon 2013-02-23 01:01

Even if the animation quality isn't up to par, the direction is still top-notch. Another intense episode that utilised music very well. The record player part in particular was very effective.

Bakenezumi-Akki is finally shown and looks like Mamoru, but basically with Maria's hair colour and the both of their eye colours combined. It was a somewhat underwhelming reveal more reminiscent of a western and I wish there was a little more to him than just screaming. (Random: I'm pretty sure we'd at least see the back of his hood in this scene...) I'm also curious if Squealer took Maria and Mamoru in under false pretenses, then offed them once Maria gave birth to a child. At this point, I wouldn't be surprised... and I think that's the 'best' scenario for their deaths given the situation.

Shisei's death was interesting in how the Akki made it slow and torturous compared to everyone else just getting vaporised. Adds a level of helplessness when the guy who tried to reassure everyone by saying he'd protect them gets killed in that manner. What other countermeasures are there after this?

As I've said before, Squealer is a pretty glorious magnificent bastard. That he not only knew he could do all this with just one child, but wanted to secure it with even more from the hospital. It's terribly disturbing, but just one child is obviously giving him the results and upper hand he needs.

Very curious about what Saki's parents left her. I'm also assuming the person who wants to see Saki and Satoru is Kiroumaru. I'm finally at the point where I know absolutely nothing that will come from this story (was unfortunately spoiled about Mamoru and Maria's child very early on) and it's getting tenser by the episode. Kiroumaru is the right 'man' to assassinate Squealer, so I'd desperately love to see it happen.

gameboy234 2013-02-23 01:16

What does it mean: 'Subconscious... Cantus leakage?'

creb 2013-02-23 01:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by SagaraSouske (Post 4565320)
I still can't understand why can't anyone sacrifice themselves to kill the Akki and die.

Considering how long it's taken characters within the story to realize seemingly obvious things, I suspect it will eventually occur to them, and doesn't require convoluted explanations. :heh:

Anyways, enjoying this quite a lot (loved the shot where the rat and Maria's child were a splitting image of a human and their well trained dog). At this point, my only points of suspense left are:

1) From the New World. What is that new world going to be shaped as? A queerat hegenomy? I think it unlikely a story that convinced a publisher to publish is going to end that way (though I wouldn't mind). That said, I have a hard time seeing how this resolves in the seemingly most likely conclusion of some sort of balance struck between the rats and humans. Then again, this is just a corner of Japan. It's possible, I suppose (especially considering what episode we are on), we don't ever see this actually resolve, but it ends with our heroine firmly going in whatever direction she finally decides to lead these remnants of her village that she's now in charge of, as the rats firmly go in their direction (with suitably epic mood music of course).

2) Actual fate of Maria (and pointless boy who's name I literally forget and have to look up so much that I refuse to do it again :heh:). At this point, it's very ancillary to the story and where it's going, and it's more out of morbid curiosity as to what potentially gruesome and miserable fates they may have encountered. :D

We all knew our dignified white-maned rat was going to re-appear, though I'm obviously torn over his character, due to the clash between his dignified bearing with him essentially being a slave. I suppose, much like some African American slaves who didn't rebel against their masters in the Civil War in America, things aren't quite as simple as black and white, but I'm not even fond of people who train their dogs in obedience, so....yea. :heh:

Drawing a blank on what the point of an infant rat is going to have next episode. Guess we'll have to wait and see. Are the blue eyes supposed to signify something?

That last shot in the preview of somewhere that seems quite far removed from this corner of Japan...is that insinuating Maria/Momosomething are actually still alive? At this point I'm still thinking they're dead though.

Of course, while I can't help but feel that the ending will have some uplifting elements, I would be delighted to see the show dropping its curtains on a massive underground rat society as the camera pans on breeding pens where near-feral humans (the oldest of who look to be in their teens) are kept as stock, with individuals being dragged out for birthing/feeding/labor lines and we see a glazed eyed 40+ year old Saki doing her best Princess Leia role to Squealer's Jabba the Hut, as she's rudely interrupted from the thoughts she's shared with us, the viewers, these past 20+ weeks, and brought back to the harsh reality of her present, with one last shot of the back of her scarred head where they lobotomized her to take away her cantus (assuming that's even possible). End scene. :D

ChronoReverse 2013-02-23 02:26

Well, I had posted in the previous episode thread that the plan so far didn't make sense because it couldn't even beat Japan and the rest of the world would definitely retaliate.

But Yakomaru had a plan for that which is gratifying since I like stories where the characters don't have arbitrary limitations.


Now, we know Saki is still alive when she's older and judging from her voice, at least middle aged so at least 10 years more than her current young 20's. It doesn't seem like the humans can even decide to suicide to stop a fiend (or can they?) so the question is how was the fiend from the past stopped by "luck"? This statement from Tomiko must have meaning and be related to how this current situation will be resolved.



I must say, I groaned a bit when the queerat said that because the humans treated them like animals, all the humans must be eradicated (using humans conditioned to be under their control like animals). Certainly no side is without sin, so to speak.

vansonbee 2013-02-23 02:35

Squealer is a genius! Taking babies and make them into fiends 10 years later. The rest of the world, are they build the same way as Japanese society? Brainwashing the children etc... if so, human is doom!

The death feedback is so lame, is there any hypnotic method of removing it? Here I thought Shisei does not have the death feedback, but it looks like it was untrue... Shisei crazy eyes are pretty much useless and I love the flashback of Shun. Save everyone Shun!!!!!!!!

Regarding how everyone does not sacrifice themselves to kill the fiend. I can relate, I am not brave.

ChronoReverse 2013-02-23 02:39

It might not even be possible to sacrifice yourself. Perhaps the inhibition comes as soon as you recognize the target as human. That is, it's not limited to death feedback if you do kill someone.

As an aside, how exactly was Shisei killed? Why couldn't he deflect the attacks and how is that related to the cantus leakage?

marsbar 2013-02-23 02:48

Hello, everyone! I just discovered this forum recently but am really glad to have so many people with similar interest in this anime.

My main question is, in the more than two centuries since the last appearance of akki, no one came up with any concrete plan to handle the eventuality of another akki appearing? Their best counter measure would be to monitor and control the children to kill the problem child early?

I have no theory on how the series will end, but my guess is the human will somehow find the way to eliminate this threat from Monster Rat. But even then, how will the human move forward into their "new world"? With the monster rat out of the picture, who will do their bidding? Is Saki going to lead the villages back into their old way? Or is she going to find a solution to control the "cursed" power once and for all?

I really love this series. I also looked up the author's earlier work "The 13th Personality ISOLA" -- another good story.

thundrakkon 2013-02-23 03:02

A very informative episode. However, I do have a few gripes.

1) If death feedback is in their genetics, then why is the fiend not affected by it?
2) If villagers knew they were going to die, they should have just done something to kill the fiend, even if it was self sacrifice. Shisei especially, should have done that right before his death. The monk was able to hold off death for awhile, so Shisei being infinitely stronger should have killed the fiend knowing that he will die, too.

Anyway, are Maria and Mamarou really dead? Did Sqealer cause their deaths? I'm looking forward to Kiroumaru killing Squealer... Wait... I just realized that the humans have someone who can kill the fiend... Kiroumaru to the rescue!

vansonbee 2013-02-23 03:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChronoReverse (Post 4565565)
It might not even be possible to sacrifice yourself. Perhaps the inhibition comes as soon as you recognize the target as human. That is, it's not limited to death feedback if you do kill someone.

As an aside, how exactly was Shisei killed? Why couldn't he deflect the attacks and how is that related to the cantus leakage?

Looks like the fiend use TK to forcibly crack his back.
Quote:

Originally Posted by thundrakkon (Post 4565578)
A very informative episode. However, I do have a few gripes.

1) If death feedback is in their genetics, then why is the fiend not affected by it?
2) If villagers knew they were going to die, they should have just done something to kill the fiend, even if it was self sacrifice. Shisei especially, should have done that right before his death. The monk was able to hold off death for awhile, so Shisei being infinitely stronger should have killed the fiend knowing that he will die, too.

Anyway, are Maria and Mamarou really dead? Did Sqealer cause their deaths? I'm looking forward to Kiroumaru killing Squealer... Wait... I just realized that the humans have someone who can kill the fiend... Kiroumaru to the rescue!

1) I thought it was through hypnosis. Remember Saki had to go through some bogus ritual at episode 1?
2) Like ChronoReverse stated, it could be more than just a simple feedback. If you see a human person, it tells you not to kill etc... everyone value their own lives.

Maria/Mamarou, only Squealer has the answers, Maira kid seem to be brought up ignorance of who he is.

Kazu-kun 2013-02-23 03:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChronoReverse (Post 4565554)
I must say, I groaned a bit when the queerat said that because the humans treated them like animals, all the humans must be eradicated (using humans conditioned to be under their control like animals). Certainly no side is without sin, so to speak.

Well that's pretty much besides the point. They were made slaves, so know that they have the chance it's natural they want to get rid of those who treated them like animals. Morals have nothing to do with it.

Kakkou 2013-02-23 04:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by thundrakkon (Post 4565578)
1) If death feedback is in their genetics, then why is the fiend not affected by it?
2) If villagers knew they were going to die, they should have just done something to kill the fiend, even if it was self sacrifice. Shisei especially, should have done that right before his death. The monk was able to hold off death for awhile, so Shisei being infinitely stronger should have killed the fiend knowing that he will die, too.

The thing is the death feedback and inhibition is genetic, they can't knowingly kill something they recognise as a fellow human. Fiends on the other hand are most likely unable to even process such thought anymore so it does not apply to them. I think K from Tomiko's story had a bit of rational thought left in him and suffered a little from death feedback (but not lethal), which is why he went to the hospital complaining over a sore throat, etc.

As for Maria & Mamoru's child, remember that it was raised by queerats. He could have been raised to think of queerats are humans and humans as whatever Squealer wants him to think. Heck he may not even be a fiend, just a feral child raised to slaughter those that threaten it's masters the queerats. That would explain why he's not indiscriminately killing everything in sight.


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