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-   -   Attack on Titan - Military Discussion - Spoilers Ahead (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=119379)

Haiprbim 2013-05-06 23:08

Hello and welcome to the Attack on Titan - Military discussion thread.

There are possible spoilers ahead, so stop now if you haven't seen it all yet.
In here, you can discuss anything related to the Military as it is seen through the series.

That includes:
  • The Garrison or "Stationary Guard" (Chūton Heidan)
  • The Recon Corps or "Scouting Legion" (Chōsa Heidan)
  • The Military Police Brigade

Spoiler for Some Basic Info.:


Keep it a nice and clean discussion; all AnimeSuki Forum Rules apply.

Raviel 2013-05-09 11:36

Based on what I've seen in both the manga and anime, I wonder how the army can even manage to keep recruitment rates up.

Given that any large-scale battle with the Titans is probably going to end with horrific losses, I have a feeling that a lot of the people who enlist do so for material/social needs (i.e. a chance to live in the inner district, a guaranteed place to sleep, food, etc).

I think this would be especially true after the fall of wall Maria, resources are more limited for humanity so there are definitely going to be people who can no longer afford basic needs for their families.

n120cky 2013-05-09 22:12

I got your point, IMHO the army recruitment can improve their caste in society, true that from time to time the quantity would be declining as the lost wall maria, but that enough for them to get assurance from the castle when their caste rose.

From what I catch the castle don't give a damn about the the human survival . . ., true now the titan have more power than the human, but I have the feeling the titan would be overwhelmed when they want to broke the center castle.

Jan-Poo 2013-05-09 23:04

Only five years have passed since the fall of wall Maria, those 250,000 people that were sent to the slaughter have probably left an army of orphans that have absolutely no where to go.

Undoubtedly there is no shortage of new recruits.

monir 2013-05-10 02:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo (Post 4673119)
Only five years have passed since the fall of wall Maria, those 250,000 people that were sent to the slaughter have probably left an army of orphans that have absolutely no where to go.

Undoubtedly there is no shortage of new recruits.

But, what about the population itself which seems to be at a steady decline? Yeah, you have orphans, but how many of them are producing their offspring? Considering the mortality rate of the corp and the amount of new recruits who need to go through years of training to fill the vacancy, I think the point is very legit at how they are keeping up with the rates of recruitment and turning them into the next generation of soldiers. I'm afraid the humanity in that world is approaching the end-game at a very quick succession every time the Giants are breaching the walls to go into the inner cities.

Raviel 2013-05-10 04:14

I don't think the population is in steady decline, they wouldn't have had 100 years of relative peace otherwise.

From what I can tell the army only suffers heavy losses during Titan breaches, beyond that I think most of the losses are suffered by the Recon Corp. I think the case of the army in SnK as whole is that most of the casualties are concentrated in one unit of the army (the Recon Corp) while the bulk of humanity's forces manage to get by despite the smaller population.

Haiprbim 2013-05-10 04:25

Adding up to posts above, I wonder how orphans give birth to new children and if the incoming is indeed big enough to cover all the dead.

Raviel 2013-05-10 04:32

I'm thinking their level of tech allows for relatively low infant mortality rates.

This is just an assumption of mine but I think that the population mostly consists of people who are about to enter or are at reproductive age, I guess you could say they had a high population growth rate prior to the Titan breaches in the wall.

Of course without any info no one can really say for sure how they keep up their recruitment stocks.

n120cky 2013-05-10 04:32

What i believe that orphans will most likely join the army, as they has nothing to lose and, they will get food and accommodation for free if they join the army, that's what I think.

yankky5 2013-05-10 05:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raviel (Post 4673482)
I don't think the population is in steady decline, they wouldn't have had 100 years of relative peace otherwise.

From what I can tell the army only suffers heavy losses during Titan breaches, beyond that I think most of the losses are suffered by the Recon Corp. I think the case of the army in SnK as whole is that most of the casualties are concentrated in one unit of the army (the Recon Corp) while the bulk of humanity's forces manage to get by despite the smaller population.

No they dont they still suffer from diseases (ep. 1), famin (ep. 2), corrupt politics (ep 5 ), etc... the titan attacks are just the icing in a whole bull crap of issues

Xero8420 2013-05-10 05:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by n120cky (Post 4673503)
What i believe that orphans will most likely join the army, as they has nothing to lose and, they will get food and accommodation for free if they join the army, that's what I think.

In other words, the new recruits in the armed forces are now a bunch of misfitting vendettas, especially for those who sought the destroy the Titans in an attempt to avenge for everything they lost, including their beloved families and relatives who were slaughtered by Titans (The Scouting Legion and the Station Guards, that is). But those who wish to join the MP... Well, they are either too afraid to fight the Titan threat or just being naive or deluded in a sole purpose to serve the King, the nobles and the government, even in such an apocalyptic times like that, which is imminent to the fate of humanity within the Walls.

As for corrupt politics... Yup. That selfish lord was an indication of corruption within the government. I wonder how would the recruits who desired to join the MP could tolerate such a bad morality like corruption?

monir 2013-05-10 05:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raviel (Post 4673482)
I don't think the population is in steady decline, they wouldn't have had 100 years of relative peace otherwise.

The population certainly is in decline. wasn't the human population almost exterminated until the giant walls were erected? The current population is counted in millions compared to billions before the Giants made their appearance. Then came the 100 years of cessation of extermination by the Giants for unknown reason. The population didn't explode in that duration because of other catalyst (limitation of land thanks to the self-confinement of those walls, food, famine, disease, etc. ) that were present in the absence of the Giants. So yes, the population has indeed been in decline, but reached a plateau during that hundred years. Now once again the curve is pointing south with the appearance of the Giants.

n120cky 2013-05-10 07:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xero8420 (Post 4673534)
In other words, the new recruits in the armed forces are now a bunch of misfitting vendettas, especially for those who sought the destroy the Titans in an attempt to avenge for everything they lost, including their beloved families and relatives who were slaughtered by Titans (The Scouting Legion and the Station Guards, that is). But those who wish to join the MP... Well, they are either too afraid to fight the Titan threat or just being naive or deluded in a sole purpose to serve the King, the nobles and the government, even in such an apocalyptic times like that, which is imminent to the fate of humanity within the Walls.

As for corrupt politics... Yup. That selfish lord was an indication of corruption within the government. I wonder how would the recruits who desired to join the MP could tolerate such a bad morality like corruption?

Well you could say that MP is one way for one to follow political route as the corps will deal with internal afair and at best will serve the castle, the choice is always at the person will he/she try to clear the corruption or just join it, AFAIK confronting a corruption tend to lead to coup d'etat, but talking about it the army here is easy to do coup d'etat because the threat ( the titans) is always there, anyway I need to clarify is the only top 10 rank rule to join MP, already from 100 years ago or only 5 years ago when Shinganshina broke?

Jan-Poo 2013-05-10 07:23

It was stated that they sent 250 thousands of people to the slaughter because they didn't have enough food for all of them.

Whether the demographic is in decline or not, the problem is that they are suffering from overpopulation in relation to the land that they have left.

Considering Eren, Armin and Mikasa weren't sent with those sacrifices, we can assume that all the children of the refugee were spared, only to be trained and enlisted in the military to fight the titans. All of those children are however still surplus children, as they only need the sons and daughters of those residing inside wall Rose to keep their demographic as it has always been in the territories included.

Naturally there's a lot of people born inside wall Rose who enlist in the military for social pressure or to get further away from the front since Wall Rose isn't safe anymore.
But let's not forget that military doesn't equal recon corps.
The vast majority is bound to join the garrison where they will only die in case of a Titan attack.

Obviously a slow demographic decline is a very minor problem when compared to a titan attack which can cause the loss of vast land with the consequently need to purge thousands of citizens at once. Strengthening their defenses is a priority. It's not like they have any other choice that would be more logical.

Anyway the mere fact that those surplus children exist, means that they don't have to worry about not having enough people recruiting, for now. As I said only five years have passed.

GundamZZ 2013-05-11 22:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo (Post 4673632)
It was stated that they sent 250 thousands of people to the slaughter because they didn't have enough food for all of them.

Whether the demographic is in decline or not, the problem is that they are suffering from overpopulation in relation to the land that they have left.


If I remember correctly, it's 1% of the population. From someone's comparison, the following geography showed the scale of Wall Seanas(250 KM). The maps of Germany and Japan are used as comparison. Wall Seanas is the core area.

Dynamic tag cannot be rendered. (PrintableThread)
It means if Wall Rose is breached, all three corps have no difference. They would have only one wall to guard. Besides Military Corp, Stationary Corp and Recon Corp, there's also Training Corp. The general managed all Corp, except Training Corp. For example, the former Head of Recon Corp quit his job and joined Training Corp. He's no longer under the general's command. His advice for the next Recon Corp Head is probably take care his hair.

Dynamic tag cannot be rendered. (PrintableThread)

ApathyEcstasy 2013-05-11 22:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by monir (Post 4673540)
The population certainly is in decline. wasn't the human population almost exterminated until the giant walls were erected? The current population is counted in millions compared to billions before the Giants made their appearance. Then came the 100 years of cessation of extermination by the Giants for unknown reason. The population didn't explode in that duration because of other catalyst (limitation of land thanks to the self-confinement of those walls, food, famine, disease, etc. ) that were present in the absence of the Giants. So yes, the population has indeed been in decline, but reached a plateau during that hundred years. Now once again the curve is pointing south with the appearance of the Giants.

You should be aware that basically all of the history from before the construction of the walls has been lost. In fact, even the history of the construction of the walls is mostly unknown as well. There is actually no factual basis for assuming that this is the last bastion of humankind. It is only the last bastion of humankind as far as the average citizen of this society knows. For all they know, the titans could be a form of biological weaponry being deployed by a foreign power that we are currently unaware of. Perhaps the weapon backfired and even the foreign power was wiped out, but there is no evidence of that.

My point is only that this society has basically no knowledge of the vast world beyond their walls. The idea of oceans are even just a myth to them. They might very well comprise only 1% of the total human population of the world, and they would have no clue that this is the case because of just how extensive their isolationism is.

Jan-Poo 2013-05-11 22:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by GundamZZ (Post 4676309)
If I remember correctly, it's 1% of the population.

No, Armin in EP2 says that the 250 thousands people that were sent to the slaughter were almost 1 fifth of the entire population. That means almost 20%.

The remaining population can be estimated to be about 1 million.

GundamZZ 2013-05-11 23:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo (Post 4676329)
No, Armin in EP2 says that the 250 thousands people that were sent to the slaughter were almost 1 fifth of the entire population. That means almost 20%.

The remaining population can be estimated to be about 1 million.

According to some Japanese webistes' estimate, the total population is 2,500,000( 総人口250万人). It's more than "about 1 million".

Jan-Poo 2013-05-11 23:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by GundamZZ (Post 4676346)
According to some Japanese webistes' estimate, the total population is 2,500,000( 総人口250万人). It's more than "about 1 million".

I'm not going to trust "some Japanese website" if it isn't official, info coming directly from the anime seems more reliable to me.

Even then it would be 10% not 1%


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