AnimeSuki.com Forum

AnimeSuki Forum (http://forums.animesuki.com/index.php)
-   Suisei no Gargantia (http://forums.animesuki.com/forumdisplay.php?f=130)
-   -   Suisei no Gargantia - Episode 10 Discussion / Poll (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=119996)

monir 2013-06-07 23:44

Suisei no Gargantia - Episode 10 Discussion / Poll
 
Welcome to the discussion thread for Suisei no Gargantia, Episode 10.

Thread Guidelines
  • Raw requests and offers are not permitted anywhere on this forum.
  • Spoilers or hints about future events must not be posted in this thread.
    If you need to reference something that would spoil a future event, reply directly with a private message, or seek out a more appropriate thread.
  • Discuss your expectations of the episode if it has not aired yet.
  • Be polite to your fellow forum members.
  • Please try to keep the discussion on-topic.
  • Do not post multiple times in a row. Please edit your existing post if you wish to add additional thoughts.
Episode Thread Spoiler Policy
  • Any comment that discloses events, characters, plot or other information before it is revealed in the anime is expressly forbidden whether or not it is behind spoiler tags.
    Spoiler tags should still be used where appropriate.
    Please consult the AnimeSuki Spoiler Policy for more information.
  • Adding a Spoiler tag:
    Just highlight your spoiler and click the button found
    on the "Quick Reply" and "Reply to Thread" forms.
    Make sure that you include a useful title!
  • Please use the Report button if you see any inappropriate spoilers:
    Click the button found to the left of the post, just under the poster's avatar.
    Using the Report button is anonymous and helps the Moderators
    locate and deal with problems quickly.
  • Posting inappropriate spoilers may result in a ban.
    Note: Reporting a post does not mean the poster will be banned instantly.
    The Moderators will use bans if warnings are repeatedly ignored.

Renegade334 2013-06-09 08:33

Heh. Knew it.

Spoiler:

MisaoFan 2013-06-09 08:35

Spoiler for Episode 10:

ReddyRedWolf 2013-06-09 08:37

More than that..

Spoiler:

Principalities 2013-06-09 09:24

Spoiler for SPECULATION!:

bastek66 2013-06-09 09:50

I knew this episode ends with Kugel's cliffhanger
http://i.imgur.com/XapUbxxl.jpg

andyjay729 2013-06-09 12:34

And here comes the Alliance.

LLLLLET'S GET READY TO RUUUUUMBLLLLLLE!!!

Byakou 2013-06-09 12:36

The "reason" provided by the robot for Redo to keep fighting didn't make sense. Kill them because they chose to be different, sure..

oompa loompa 2013-06-09 12:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf (Post 4715231)
More than that..

Spoiler:

I thought that was really nice. So far I think this is a pretty wayward show all in all, but there are some real gems hidden in there.

Endless Knackwurst 2013-06-09 12:42

Spoiler for Episode doings!:

waffler 2013-06-09 12:45

wait what in episode 2 he murdered all those pirates who are actually human and now hes scared to murder hidaeze who arent even human anymore? what?

Kiavik 2013-06-09 12:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by waffler (Post 4715567)
wait what in episode 2 he murdered all those pirates who are actually human and now hes scared to murder hidaeze who arent even human anymore? what?

Pirates were enemies. Hideauze aren't really. Also, people change you know.

ApathyEcstasy 2013-06-09 13:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byakou (Post 4715556)
The "reason" provided by the robot for Redo to keep fighting didn't make sense. Kill them because they chose to be different, sure..

It's a little more complicated than that. It's more like kill them because their fundamental way of life is incompatible with ours.

kk2extreme 2013-06-09 13:09

I can see it now,

In next ep,

Kugel will ask Ledo to join him and they could rule earth together (and extension to solar system)

...and Ledo will refuse and se "NOOOO! I will never join you"

konart 2013-06-09 13:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiavik (Post 4715571)
Pirates were enemies. Hideauze aren't really. Also, people change you know.

Erm... no, Hideauze are enemies too. Squid, on the other hand were not. At least not yet.
But all of his "omg what I am doing?!!" really look strange. He resembles Rento from Eureka, who's just realized that there were people inside other robots :heh:

Shinji103 2013-06-09 13:27

Mmmmmeh, I couldn't really get a "feel" for the drama of this episode.

Ledo's angst was overdone and really quite unnecessary. Mostly, anyway. Sure it was traumatizing to find out the Hideauze were human, but not on that level. The Hideauze he just wiped out were peaceful and only attacked in defense of their territory, so yeah angst a bit about that because what he did was basically invade their territory and ruthlessly wipe them out for no real reason. But acting like his whole life had lost meaning was over the top.
The Hideauze in space have chosen to be humanity's enemy and would still come to wipe them out regardless of what Ledo or anyone else woud do. So there's still plenty of meaning in what he's done; he was defending his people from a hostile race who are bent on wiping them out, regardless of what race they originated from.
Ledo's a smart guy, he should have reasoned this out already. He certainly spent enough time moping around thinking about it that it should have clicked for him by now.

On the Gargantia side, it really hurts to see Amy, the doc, and everybody's anguish over Ledo wiping out the "whale-squids," but not in an empathetic way. They have no idea about the truth of the "whale-squids," yet they're moping like a great tragedy has occured. It's hard to connect to it like that. They act like they understand them or something when they know nothing about them, while Ledo is agonizing for an actually legitimate reason. (mostly legitimate, anyway) It hurts to watch, like bad drama.

And Pinion's ego is clearly getting carried away, and everyone (most everyone at least) are so encouraged by their current success that they're getting swept up in his enthusiasm.

Well it's pretty obvious what's gong to happen with Krugel next episode. Then again.......are we sure it's Krugel? We don't actually see him in the episode, and I couldn't really pick him out in those small-sized preview shots. (I miss traditional previews....) We just see a couple shots of the Galactic Alliance pilot suit (at least a couple of them are definitely Ledo), but we don't actually see the man himself.

A real twist would be that it isn't Krugel, just somebody who found his machine caliber. Or, much more likely, it's Krugel's descendant; he went in the unstable wormhole, got sent into the past, and now his legacy is being carried on. (his machine caliber's AI would most ikely sign off on his descendant being its pilot in order to carry on the Hideauze slaughter) It would make more sense in explaining how there's a whole cult worshipping his machine caliber. It seems like it's been way to short a time for a whole creepy cult to have been founded.

GreyZone 2013-06-09 14:03

What actually surprised me was that Chamber admited that the information in that "ancient" lab was actually true. Last Episode it looked like he would forever try to deny it and claim that the video was a fake, but when he said "I got to this conclusion not because I belong to the Alliance, but because of the information I analysed", I got quite relieved, that MAYBE he will not be the final antagonist after all.

Kiavik 2013-06-09 14:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by konart (Post 4715605)
Erm... no, Hideauze are enemies too. Squid, on the other hand were not. At least not yet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shinji103 (Post 4715620)
The Hideauze in space have chosen to be humanity's enemy and would still come to wipe them out regardless of what Ledo or anyone else woud do.

This is completely wrong. Hideauze aren't enemies really, they're just defending themselves. Did you guys pay attention to the flashback in episode 9? It's clear as crystal that the war was started by the Continental Union (later Galactic Alliance) because of their own ethical reasons. The so-called Hideauze just want to live in peace in space. Of course if they're attacked they WILL return fire. :heh:
But attacking their fellow humans was never their initiative.

LystAP 2013-06-09 14:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shinji103 (Post 4715620)

The Hideauze in space have chosen to be humanity's enemy and would still come to wipe them out regardless of what Ledo or anyone else woud do. So there's still plenty of meaning in what he's done; he was defending his people from a hostile race who are bent on wiping them out, regardless of what race they originated from.

Well, I don't really think it's a matter of choice at this point in the conflict. If anything, the war between humanity and the Hideauze is nothing more than a continuation of the war between the Continental Union and the Evolvers.

A interesting note by Chamber confirms that the Hideauze aren't sentient anymore, at least not on an individual level or at a level that can be easily associated with by normal humans. This goes in hand with the argument against synthetics from various sci-fi series; since they can just evolve countermeasures, the Hideauze have no reason to think at all, no limitations that require intelligence to overcome. Chamber's conclusion is logical, it isn't a matter of who started what now, humanity (as represented by the Galactic Alliance) and the Hideauze are basically two conclusions that contradict each other, and will inevitably lead to some form of conflict (whether or not that conflict can ever be peaceful is unknown).

Reminds me of the argument from this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJIQfmWx3dI), only replace "tech" with "evolutionary" countermeasures. The Hideauze may be biological beings, but they possess all the attributes of a pure synthetic race; thus it may be inevitable that they will come into conflict with their more "organic" counterparts.

At this point in time, I think they just fight each other because that's what both sides have "evolved" towards, what they've been doing for thousands of years, in the case of the Galactic Alliance, their society and outlook; in the case of the Hideauze, their combat oriented biology and aggression; both sides don't need a reason anymore, it's what they do.

MeggieMay 2013-06-09 14:15

Ok, that was different, in a good way. Probably shouldn't have been surprised that the powers that be on the ships are letting Pinon go power crazy - that's going to end poorly :rolleyes: As for Kugel, I'm not sure what side his "friends" are on. Yes, they have dead Whalesquid all over the place but they're also dressed up to look like Whalesquid. That could mean they are pro-Whalesquid, just as likely as anti. Where I'm coming from on this is if you think about other cultures like American Indians, African, or Pacific Islander from 200+ years ago, you sometimes see groups from those who dress up as the things they worship when they when they go to fight, as well as bringing totems of the spirits they follow with them (such as a bunch of dead Whalesquid who look like they've been persevered or something).

Big Disclaimer: What I'm talking about above here is informed more by modern media verse hard facts. I'm not about to claim this is a truthful or accurate portrayal of real native peoples and apologies to anyone before hand if I'm getting some of this wrong. Keep in mind that the writers of this show are most likely coming from the same Western influenced media background that I do and that is what I think is important in what I'm trying to convey. Specifically, what I got from the sequence where the Whalesquid dressed up people, with their painted up faces and expressions that looked like they might a bit crazy (or have ingested something to get into a altered state), along with their collection of dead, very embalmed looking, Whalesquid collection, reminded me of similar sequences I've seen in films where groups of natives attack the interlopers for killing something they see as sacred. From movies like 1933s King Kong to James Cameron's Avatar you get similar types of sequences that pop up in them. So how I interpreted what I was seeing was "oh great, here come the Squid Cult and it looks like Kugel has gone native and joined there side" response. Really, Kugel should have contacted Ledo long before now, seeing the MC's have better radio reception. Unless somethings wrong with Kugel Mecha (I'm not sure it's a MC actually, but even if it's not it should have a similar AI unit) but it does seem to me Kugel hasn't been looking to go home quite as much as Ledo has/had (because one would think Chamber would have picked up multiple outgoing signals). So while I wouldn't rule out that Kugel and Co are simply there to join the Whalesquid killing spree, I think it is as likely they're there to stop them from desecrating the "holy lands." I think that might also make sense from the perspective of what Chamber was saying, as well (i.e. it may show that while it would be nice to co-exist, it often isn't a option no matter how hard we want it to be).

Which takes me to Chamber in this episode. Wow! It was a really nice twist that Ledo's AI seems to really be as semi sentient/sapient as he appeared in earlier episodes (to me that is). I believe the AI when it tells us that it came to the conclusions it tells Ledo on its own. While I don't know if I 100% agree with Chambers take on how things really are and how they should proceed, Chamber is making a number valid points. I also feel reassured after his discussion that Chamber really is capable of being reasoned with and some of the things he said I'm really iffy on might be settled with some extended discussion on the subject. One thing I find a problem with Chambers argument is that they have to kill all of the Whalesquid because they're Hidiousze. I feel there is a middle path that could be found for the Whalesqiuds because as Chamber said himself, they've de-evolved from the Hidiouze that they battled in space. Maybe a 100% no-kill situation can't be reached (or maybe it can but I'm not sure that is possible either) but there is no need to waste resources on such a campaign, either, at least at this point.

The world of Gargantia was never perfect, IMO. It just seemed that way because the Gargantia itself was in a time of peace. The group with Kugel didn't just appear - they must have been hovering around that area for years. As well the pirate situation is was also going to blow up at some point. Everything hinged on a status quo that was going to get unbalanced sooner or later. To stay the same would be the stagnate but to change brings on strife between people and there may not be a way for that to ever be resolved (I feel this is part of what Chamber is trying to say with his speech). This show is really putting out a lot of deep thinking thoughts about humanity and why things are the way they are, at this point. How the show handles all of these ideas is going to make or break the ending of this show IMO.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:04.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.