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-   -   Rozen Maiden Zurückspulen - Episode 12 Discussion / Poll (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=121936)

Klashikari 2013-09-19 11:47

Rozen Maiden Zurückspulen - Episode 12 Discussion / Poll
 
Welcome to the discussion thread for Rozen Maiden Zurückspulen, Episode 12.

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blitz1/2 2013-09-19 16:01

And here I thought it was over, looks like there's more eps(?)

MCAL 2013-09-19 21:24

Well that was a great way to end things. And next week will end with a complete coda of events, which is starting to be extremely rare in this anime world.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blitz1/2 (Post 4837503)
And here I thought it was over, looks like there's more eps(?)

Just one more episode (For the coda). Kirakishiou is just the sequel hook.

Requiem-x 2013-09-19 22:16

Now, THAT was awesome. Seriously, all was done perfectly.

Spoiler for Spoiler:

ChainLegacy 2013-09-20 08:41

Fantastic episode, fantastic series. Never would have thought Rozen Maiden could produce such an incredible series as this. Really might have to check out the source material now.

Even though the episode had a tone of bittersweet hopefulness, I couldn't help but feel sad throughout it. I think all of us have some moment where we chose not to wind in our lives. Thinking about what could have been, what we could have done differently is generally a waste of time. The past is the past, but nonetheless it's hard to not think "what if..." sometimes, or at least experience feelings of regret for whatever reason.

In unwound Jun's case, his "mistake" is made far more apparent than any of ours because he sees the actual alternative path he could have taken.

Despite how apparent his mistake now is, he has learned to hope. By seeing that the decision to wind could have changed his life so drastically, he is now aware that little decisions really can change your life, such as the decision to put himself out there, make friends, take chances, and stop dwelling on the negative. Seeing his greatest mistake, though it brings him to tears in this episode, has given him the cognizance that he can control his destiny through the choices he makes.

It's a really powerful message for everyone and I am so pleasantly surprised that it was delivered from this series, which, on the surface, just seems to be a very strange premise with dolls battling each other and whatnot. I liked the old series, but this one just sets a whole new standard.

MeoTwister5 2013-09-20 10:06

Ok... I think I got a bit teary eyed when they all said goodbye to one another.

Of course, it's already the time for Big Jun to take his life into his own hands, without the dolls.

Dark Faith 2013-09-20 10:24

I think the "problem" with this particular anime was that it was called "Rozen Maiden". If the show and its characters had different names, I don't doubt that it would've experienced far more success than it did.
Don't get me wrong, Rozen Maiden Zurückspulen, was a great (and somewhat bittersweet) lesson on life, as ChainLegacy put it:

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChainLegacy (Post 4838317)
In unwound Jun's case, his "mistake" is made far more apparent than any of ours because he sees the actual alternative path he could have taken.

Despite how apparent his mistake now is, he has learned to hope. By seeing that the decision to wind could have changed his life so drastically, he is now aware that little decisions really can change your life, such as the decision to put himself out there, make friends, take chances, and stop dwelling on the negative. Seeing his greatest mistake, though it brings him to tears in this episode, has given him the cognizance that he can control his destiny through the choices he makes.

It's a really powerful message for everyone

But in terms of meeting my expectations (and I imagine, a lot of other people's too), it failed spectacularly. The Alice game and the dolls' struggles felt like a subplot compared to Jun's own issues. After 12 episodes, the status quo didn't change much, save for Souseiseki being back and Suigintou having an epiphany. Afterall, Kirakshou was defeated but she's not a goner yet, and from what I gather, all the humans/masters that she kidnapped remain MIA...save for Jun.

I didn't read the source material, but I imagine that after this episode, things would go back to "typical" Rozen Maiden. But this adaptation, for me, leaves me with a lingering sense of "Meh" for the reasons stated above.

Which is a shame, because the message conveyed in it was still very, very beautiful.

Triple_R 2013-09-20 12:03

Beautiful climax for the Rozen Maidens, and a beautiful message. ChainLegacy really sums it up perfectly. This was a very touching episode, and it was great to see the Rozen Maidens really pour their hearts out to big Jun.


However, the show should have been promoted as a classic noitaminA-esque character drama that just happened to have Rozen Maidens in it, rather than as a Rozen Maiden reboot. Perhaps a more fitting title would have been "Rozen Maiden: Jun Unwound" where Rozen Maiden is in small text, and "Jun Unwound" is in large text.

The Rozen Maidens in this show were ultimately a sweet stylish side-dish that complimented a meaty main course that was more substance than sizzle. This is in sharp contrast to the flashier and more colorful, but also lighter and more trite, original Rozen Maiden. So the way you promote this show should probably be a bit different from how the original Rozen Maiden was promoted.


With this change in promotion, and with one other change, I think this show could have been more of a commercial success. Episodes 2 and 3 should have been Episodes 1 and 2. And then the content we saw in that break-neck paced Episode 1 should have been scattered about as flashbacks from Episode 3 to 8.

This approach would make the 1st episode more reflective of what this Rozen Maiden is really like, thus attracting more viewers that are into this type of subtle but pathos-rich character drama. At the same time, spreading out those flashy flashback scenes throughout the slower middle episodes might have made them an easier watch for fans who prefer the classic Rozen Maiden.

j4c06 2013-09-20 16:45

So, with Shinku gone to the wound world, who was the doll in the play? :confused:

GDiddy 2013-09-20 20:16

I thought this was the last episode too...but I guess not.

Spoiler:


Great episode and I actually cried when Shinku said bye to Adult Jun.

Hopefully next week Big Jun gets closer to Saitou and tells off the boss.

Guido 2013-09-20 20:45

Twelfth Tale.
 
Whenever the adult Jun goes all emo mode or drowning in gloominess beholding the sight of his own helplessness then for sure the episode is going to get dragged.

Nothing new happens since this episode showcases the aftermath and conclusion of Kirashou's dissappearance. Both Jun get to meet a second time, and the adult Jun is encouraged by his younger self to put Shinku's head back on her original body.

Everyone learns new things from their departing, and we have SuiginTou strengthening her resolve to understand if there are other ways to win the Alice Game, questioning herself after learning that HinaIchigo offered willingly her Rosa Mystica to Shinku in order for the latter's body to be protected.

If anything was overly interesting in this episode that would be SuiginTou and Megu, and those two are the creme of the crop in this show. Unfortunately, judging the preview for the last episode, I do not think they'll spend much (or any for that matter) time on SuiginTou in her quest to find Megu.
That, and the tiny detail that KiraKishou might not be out of the game at all.

Let us also not forget what of HinaIchigo, if there's a remote chance for her to be returned by other means.

Guardian Enzo 2013-09-20 21:43

The irony for me is that despite the fact that they've had much less screen time in Zurückspulen, the dolls have been much more fully-realized characters. In the earlier anime versions they were like the girls in an idol group - each taking on a fake personality to play up various assigned affectations as part of the schtick. There, they seemed like dolls - in Zurückspulen they seem like people. Even with limited screen time their motivations and true natures are much more fleshed out, and as a result I find it much easier to care about them.

Triple_R 2013-09-20 21:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by j4c06 (Post 4838787)
So, with Shinku gone to the wound world, who was the doll in the play? :confused:

Yeah, I wondered that too. I expected there to be a moment where the actors froze at the sudden realization that their doll had mysteriously vanished. But apparently the Desu twins had the good sense to replace Shinku with a different doll. If you squint a bit, you can see her at 20:42 of this episode.

MeoTwister5 2013-09-20 21:49

The doll looks like the original doll for the play.

Triple_R 2013-09-20 21:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo (Post 4839028)
The irony for me is that despite the fact that they've had much less screen time in Zurückspulen, the dolls have been much more fully-realized characters. In the earlier anime versions they were like the girls in an idol group - each taking on a fake personality to play up various assigned affectations as part of the schtick. There, they seemed like dolls - in Zurückspulen they seem like people. Even with limited screen time their motivations and true natures are much more fleshed out, and as a result I find it much easier to care about them.

I have to agree with you. It's honestly amazing how Zurückspulen made me care more about Souseiseki than all of the other Rozen Maiden anime shows put together. I mean, Souseiseki had very little screen-time in this show, but it was definitely put to great use. Souseiseki came across here as this very mature, caring, practical girl who puts her twin ahead of herself.

Kanaria also came across as more thoughtful/talented here than she did in previous Rozen Maidens, and Suigintou's character made a bit more sense to me here than she did before.

Before Zurückspulen, what Suigintou made me think of was Sephiroth as a cute gothic female doll, with a huge added helping of "mustache-twirling villain". Very colorful and fun, to be sure, but not the most relatable of characters. :heh: This particular episode did more to help me understand Suigintou than any Rozen Maiden episode I watched before it.

Guardian Enzo 2013-09-20 22:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triple_R (Post 4839034)
I have to agree with you. It's honestly amazing how Zurückspulen made me care more about Souseiseki than all of the other Rozen Maiden anime shows put together. I mean, Souseiseki had very little screen-time in this show, but it was definitely put to great use. Souseiseki came across here as this very mature, caring, practical girl who puts her twin ahead of herself.

Kanaria also came across as more thoughtful/talented here than she did in previous Rozen Maidens, and Suigintou's character made a bit more sense to me here than she did before.

Before Zurückspulen, what Suigintou made me think of was Sephiroth as a cute gothic female doll, with a huge added helping of "mustache-twirling villain". Very colorful and fun, to be sure, but not the most relatable of characters. :heh: This particular episode did more to help me understand Suigintou than any Rozen Maiden episode I watched before it.

I think this effect is true for all the dolls in Zurückspulen right up to Shinku - they're all much more complex and real. But Souseiseki was the one doll I really felt stood out in the Nomad anime as an interesting and subtle creation. I think it's her character that needed to change the least in order to fit in with this adaptation.

Sugintou indeed is one that really stands out. I also had that very thought when recollecting her role in the Nomad anime - the mustachio-twirling villain, mixed with the vamping gothic ojou-sama. It's astonishing how she's transformed in Zurückspulen - she's absolutely fascinating here, an anti-hero in the best sense.

MCAL 2013-09-20 23:41

Quite surprised Suigintou is so different (worse) in the Nomad adaption. Having only read the manga (Because of Zeruckspulen actually), Suigintou had always been my favorite (Followed by Souseiseki) doll for many of the good reasons stated above. Always wanted her to win the Alice Game. I'm quite glad I never watched the previous anime series now.

StainGlass 2013-09-21 02:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by MCAL (Post 4839138)
Quite surprised Suigintou is so different (worse) in the Nomad adaption. Having only read the manga (Because of Zeruckspulen actually), Suigintou had always been my favorite (Followed by Souseiseki) doll for many of the good reasons stated above. Always wanted her to win the Alice Game. I'm quite glad I never watched the previous anime series now.

How do you know she's worse if you've never even watched it?

She's a better character to me in the Nomad series by a tenfold, but these are all matters of opinion. You need to see it to make a judgment like that.

FlareKnight 2013-09-21 02:50

This series really has been a nice way to better characterize the dolls and make them more relatable. You can feel where they are all coming from and what kinds of things they are going through. Of course this episode added onto that for Suigintou The challenge of this game being higher than she had originally believed. Not just about beating your opponents into submission though that may still have its part in the greater scheme of things.

Also have enjoyed seeing the growth and development for Jun. A relatable guy who had to face what the possibilities could have been for his life. But even though he chose a path that lead in a different direction this whole experience allowed him to grow as a person. That brief contact and adventure has opened up his future and given him the willingness and understanding to change things in his life.

ShiroiRyu 2013-09-21 12:29

Oh man ...
The first part with HinaIchigo ...
I was ... so ... oh man ... sad .


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