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Irenicus 2013-11-06 00:43

Troubleshooting Help - Motherboard or CPU death
 
Pardon, this is a cross-post from another forum. As it is a lifetech support question, I hope this isn't breaking the spirit of the rules.

Without further ado, HELP.

***

I recently built a new computer. The build at first went well, if a little difficult (bruises and cuts, and gods I hate the little front panel to motherboard thing), and I spent a few hours installing drivers on this and that, checked the idle temps which were fine, and started testing load conditions by playing a game for about an hour. In short, it was working. I did things on it.

Then the screen hung. I pressed reset. The PC turned on, off, and on again -- and then stayed on, but the monitor did not react and stayed "blank." All fans were running. Tried turning on and off a few times, the same result.

Ugh.

I went through the following troubleshooting steps:

1) Reseat RAM/GPU - no results
2) Took out CMOS battery, wait a few seconds, put back in (I assumed the whole installing a bunch of motherboard drivers from the manufacturer's website might have done the thing in) - no more turning on-off-and-on, just stays on -- but still black screen
3) Removed the GPU from the equation and ran the screen directly from the motherboard -- no good
4) Did the CMOS battery thing again; left out for a few hours this time -- no luck
5) Removed all connections except motherboard (+ cpu) and PSU itself, linking to the monitor.
6) Using my old computer, tested the RAM, monitor, and PSU. All work just fine. The PSU, moreover, is a gold Seasonic G series. It feels like it should survive an embassy siege.

The relevant culprits are therefore ASROCK Fatal1ty H87 board OR the i5 4670. Or maybe my brand new Corsair 500R case's power button is bad or something (but then it shouldn't have worked before, right?). I do not have any specialized tools to test them. I do not have another Intel board, especially not one for Haswell nor a spare CPU.

Both motherboard and CPU are bought from newegg. Both are still under 30 days.

Two side notes: When I first started the PC for the very first time, it did the on-off-and-on thing, but went on to work perfectly and never did it again despite numerous shutdowns and restarts until the black screen situation. Also, I have only gotten the aftermarket cooler just now, as of this post -- was using the Intel default cooler throughout this PC's young life. Don't tell me I should have waited... :I

P.S. No overclocking involved. Shouldn't have shocked the motherboard with my static either, given that the PC acted up when it was already working, safely guarded inside a mighty Corsair Carbide case.

***

TL;DR isolated the problem to the motherboard OR CPU.

Questions: I beg upon thy kindness -- halp. What are my options? Is there a way to test out which of the two things is the dead one, some sort of motherboard tester or something, or should I RMA both?

And if that's what I have to do (I'm thinking, if I RMA only the more likely culprit, I get to test with one "old" piece before sending it back if necessary), how do I go about RMA'ing with newegg again? Never had to do one before...

And how much do computer shops charge anyway if clients go in with "I troubleshot (?) everything except these two, plz hlp"?

0utf0xZer0 2013-11-06 05:35

I'm trying to recall if I faced this same scenario with my friends i5 rig last year. I do recall pulling the GPU and a few other parts out for testing purposes - and that it worked again when I reassembled it, despite my having reseated the GPU and RAM and checked the power connections before we started testing. I do not, however, recall if using the motherboard GPU alone worked. Still, it might be worth putting the GPU back in and seeing if it works for no apparent reason because I think it might have helped in my case.

I've also had boot issues after swapping CPUs between various Core 2 Duo/Quad motherboards. In both cases, it was due to me being dojikko and accidentally getting thermal paste on the pins during the swap. I doubt that's its a similar contact issue here as in my case they just plain didn't boot - no grace period before symptoms occured.

If you have to RMA: I have never had a faulty CPU. I've had a number of motherboards that have failed, though usually it's at least a few months in.

Irenicus 2013-11-07 00:47

Is there a high risk of motherboard frying the CPU as well, though?

sa547 2013-11-07 06:18

I think you might try to update the BIOS to the latest, as I just came from working on such a problem and fixed it.

Reverzer0 2013-11-07 07:30

Maybe similar and trying to elaborate the problem with my prev computer, psu and fan is running but no display/monitor did not react and stayed "blank." but difference is that the computer was used 2 years and 8 months. The action I did was I went where I bought the pc and apply for diagnose(cheap price). Then after 1 day the result and problem was the mobo. According to their certified technicians, the possible problems why the mobo died are Static charge/electricity caused by lightning or grounded by(improper placement of cpu), pressing the AVR off without proper shutdown and emmm i forgot the others hehe",... I have the strong feeling that that Static charge kill the computer due that day was rainy with strong lightning. Games, overclocking, or lets say software thing are out of the cause therefore your mobo maybe defective/factory defect that's why it die in an hour.

I suggest, go to the nearest computer shop with equipment/tools for diagnosing if you are not sure the exact problem of your new computer before returning the defective parts. Troubleshooting might void your warranty and the 30 days replacement.

Other cause, the ram maybe also defective! Another real story~

edited: I'm no technician but I know some common simple solution",

Irenicus 2013-11-07 23:41

The BIOS should not be a problem, really -- it worked before it died.

I'd love to go to a computer shop but, meh, I lost patience and RMA'd the motherboard. I will pray that the CPU is still okay. Like Outf0x, I found my experience with CPUs to be...sturdy isn't quite the word, so, less prone to stupid shit?

Oh, and the RAM is fine. I tried memtest on them on my old PC with no errors.

SaintessHeart 2013-11-08 10:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irenicus (Post 4900879)
I'd love to go to a computer shop but, meh, I lost patience and RMA'd the motherboard. I will pray that the CPU is still okay. Like Outf0x, I found my experience with CPUs to be...sturdy isn't quite the word, so, less prone to stupid shit?

Have you tried reading the origin of manufacture label? Usually that is the cause. :heh:

4Tran 2013-11-11 00:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irenicus (Post 4900879)
The BIOS should not be a problem, really -- it worked before it died.

I'd love to go to a computer shop but, meh, I lost patience and RMA'd the motherboard. I will pray that the CPU is still okay. Like Outf0x, I found my experience with CPUs to be...sturdy isn't quite the word, so, less prone to stupid shit?

Oh, and the RAM is fine. I tried memtest on them on my old PC with no errors.

Usually, this kind of problem is going to be from a bad mainboard. Intel has had a very good track record with CPUs for the last few years, so they'd be the least likely part to be defective. Ideally, if your motherboard was new, you should take it back to where you bought it, and see if they'll do a refund or exchange.

A couple of other points:

-Testing the RAM on a different mainboard isn't always helpful as RAM chips can be perfectly fine but not work on certain boards. It likely wasn't the problem anyways, so there's no real harm.

-If you can, one of the best testing techniques is to take the mainboard out of the case and just have the CPU and RAM installed. Plug in a testing power supply if you can, and only have the monitor and keyboard hooked up. This way you can eliminate all of the less likely sources of the problem in one fell swoop.

Irenicus 2013-11-11 02:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Tran (Post 4904525)
-If you can, one of the best testing techniques is to take the mainboard out of the case and just have the CPU and RAM installed. Plug in a testing power supply if you can, and only have the monitor and keyboard hooked up. This way you can eliminate all of the less likely sources of the problem in one fell swoop.

During troubleshooting, I did just that, and it didn't POST/no beeps (though I wasn't sure if the motherboard had a working speaker in the first place).

The RAM point is well taken. Unfortunately, I don't have other test beds around to figure out other possibilities -- I can't test compatibility with a "dead" motherboard obviously, but it should not be a problem given how long DDR3 has been around, how commoditized the memory market is, and how both are common brands.

If and when I get a new motherboard I can test once and for all and see if it was the CPU's fault after all and not, as I currently assume, the motherboard.

It's frustrating really because for the few hours that the PC was working I was all like, "FAST, SWOOSH, POWAA," albeit that was mostly the SSD's responsiveness.

SaintessHeart 2013-11-13 11:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irenicus (Post 4904614)
During troubleshooting, I did just that, and it didn't POST/no beeps (though I wasn't sure if the motherboard had a working speaker in the first place).

The RAM point is well taken. Unfortunately, I don't have other test beds around to figure out other possibilities -- I can't test compatibility with a "dead" motherboard obviously, but it should not be a problem given how long DDR3 has been around, how commoditized the memory market is, and how both are common brands.

If and when I get a new motherboard I can test once and for all and see if it was the CPU's fault after all and not, as I currently assume, the motherboard.

It's frustrating really because for the few hours that the PC was working I was all like, "FAST, SWOOSH, POWAA," albeit that was mostly the SSD's responsiveness.

One moment, is the screen's power button still flashing or is it still without an image?

Have you tried another monitor?

Irenicus 2013-11-13 18:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart (Post 4907183)
One moment, is the screen's power button still flashing or is it still without an image?

Have you tried another monitor?

Monitor is fine. I'm using it currently with my old computer. A sweet little LG IPS, the wave of cheap IPS monitors (finally) trickling down from high volumes of smartphone production is the best computer parts trend in 2013.

When the PC broke -- like, a week ago, after a few hours of life -- the screen hung, and reset results in no signal. The first thing I tested was the monitor.

(If you're wondering, Video Card was also removed as a factor as I tested on both the card and through the onboard link.)

Reverzer0 2013-11-14 07:12

How's your troubleshooting? Before, I Also tried removing the ram and video card and replace a borrowed one but nothing happen, still dead. I'm planning to claim the cpu tomorrow but i'm thinking what board should I avail?! Ashrock or Biostar? I haven't tried both of them which is better.

Flower 2013-11-14 12:52

Are asrock and biostar you only available choices reverzer0?

4Tran 2013-11-14 13:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverzer0 (Post 4907971)
How's your troubleshooting? Before, I Also tried removing the ram and video card and replace a borrowed one but nothing happen, still dead. I'm planning to claim the cpu tomorrow but i'm thinking what board should I avail?! Ashrock or Biostar? I haven't tried both of them which is better.

I have to agree with Flower. You don't really want to skimp on your mainboard, and Asrock and Biostar don't have the best reputation. I'd spend the extra money and get a Gigabyte or MSI or (if you must) Asus instead.

I haven't worked with their newer offerings too much, but I seem to recall having less grief with Asrock boards.

Reverzer0 2013-11-14 18:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flower (Post 4908214)
Are asrock and biostar you only available choices reverzer0?

Unlucky, they only have ashrock and that biostar I saw it from the other shop. Specifically, I'm looking a board with am3 or am3+ socket for amd. They also offer me a quotation to change the processor, motherboard with fm2 socket and ram. this changes spend me too much.


Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Tran (Post 4908242)
I have to agree with Flower. You don't really want to skimp on your mainboard, and Asrock and Biostar don't have the best reputation. I'd spend the extra money and get a Gigabyte or MSI or (if you must) Asus instead.

I haven't worked with their newer offerings too much, but I seem to recall having less grief with Asrock boards.

Yup I will ask later in the stores if these boards have am3 or am3+ socket",

sa547 2013-11-14 22:53

Quote:

Asrock and Biostar don't have the best reputation
I'm using an ASRock motherboard right now and for more than a year, and so does my friend who runs an internet cafe operation and they're pretty solid (unlike ten years ago). However I avoid Biostars because I tried their products in the past and weren't reliable due to quality issues.

If you want to, ASUS or Gigabyte mobos are also reliable and very popular.

@Irenicus: what's the full specs of your rig right now?

Irenicus 2013-11-14 23:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverzer0 (Post 4907971)
How's your troubleshooting? Before, I Also tried removing the ram and video card and replace a borrowed one but nothing happen, still dead. I'm planning to claim the cpu tomorrow but i'm thinking what board should I avail?! Ashrock or Biostar? I haven't tried both of them which is better.

Received motherboard today. Will have time to install it on Saturday morning, Pacific Time.

Praying to the old gods that my CPU isn't broken, because the rest of the stuff should be fine.

Oh, and the broken motherboard? An ASRock. :(

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverzer0
Unlucky, they only have ashrock and that biostar I saw it from the other shop. Specifically, I'm looking a board with am3 or am3+ socket for amd. They also offer me a quotation to change the processor, motherboard with fm2 socket and ram. this changes spend me too much.

The FM2 socket is only if you're looking for APUs. They are nice little chips that don't take too much power to game, especially for laptops, but they cannot really outclass your old graphics card (unless it's really quite old) and a Phenom II. No point shifting if you already have a Phenom II.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sa547
@Irenicus: what's the full specs of your rig right now?

Off the top of my head:

CPU: Intel i5-4670 -- not K, I don't overclock.
Motherboard: the dead one was an ASRock Fatal1ty something H87. Very well equipped for an H87 board (as opposed to Z87), except it broke. :I
RAM: G-Skill Ares, 8GB, 1600 Mhz. Standard stuff.
Drives: Samsung EVO...250? GB. Around that. Loved it the few hours I was using it. INSTANTANEOUSITY /not word
Also Seagate Barracuda 2TB 7200 RPM.
Optical: Asus DVD-RW something. Basic fare.
Case: Corsair Carbide "holy cow it's huge" 500R
Monitor: LG IPS 224VP-N, a 21.5" 1080 IPS screen.
Power Supply: Seasonic G-series 650w

Running a Windows 7 Pro because screw Metro. I intend to put a Cooler Master Hyper EVO 212 aftermarket for the CPU for the reinstall. The failhard Intel stock heatsink made me bleed taking it off, and that's after I literally had one plastic socket stuck in so hard I had to break the thing to get the rest off first. Now I can't even RMA if it is the CPU that is broken...unless I complain really hard somewhere if I have to, I suppose.

I imagine I terrified some people now, but don't worry -- the CPU was not in contact with the heatsink when I waged a bloody siege to remove it. The heatsink was already gently loosened off from the CPU, which sat safely guarded in the CPU socket.

What else did I miss, hm...

That's it, I think.

Edit: Oh, right, I missed The Big One (literally...this is my first "modern" giant graphics card...these engineers are mad):
Video: Asus R280X. The one everyone says is the best R280X. Can't afford the R290X, yo.

sa547 2013-11-14 23:35

Okay, I got the picture. How long you were using the Fatal1ty (what an irony) board?

It's a long shot that a new board be killed even with the best power protection available, so more likely a glitched board, which should be eligible for an RMA.

@Reverzer0: I'm afraid that the AM3+ processors and boards are being cut back a bit in favor of the APUs, as the latter is becoming popular because it's a cheaper option for casual gaming (i.e. most East Asian MMOs and shooters, as well as DotA) and first-time PC buyers without having to fuss over what video card to buy.

Irenicus 2013-11-14 23:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by sa547 (Post 4908750)
Okay, I got the picture. How long you were using the Fatal1ty (what an irony) board?

It's a long shot that a new board be killed even with the best power protection available, so more likely a glitched board, which should be eligible for an RMA.

I used it for a few hours. It was working excellently for a few hours after installation and then it stopped working and I started the troubleshooting and, ergo, my original post.

I did not suspect a bad power attack because Las Vegas power is relatively clean, there were no strange weather going on, there was a basic power strip between the wall and the Seasonic, and there was, well, the mighty Seasonic [tested working afterwards] between the strip and the motherboard, which should have regulated anything less than the wrath of Zeus himself.

And if it was working safely inside the case for the first few hours, it could not have been my striking awesomeness that shocked it during installation.

So it goes. :heh:

As replacement, I bought a Gigabyte H87 board which is now in my possession. I will be installing on Saturday (work and all). As for RMA'ing, frankly, newegg is horribad at RMA. Never again, Amazon4lyfe. I'm trying, though.

Flower 2013-11-15 00:10

Ooo... a gigabyte board, eh? Nice! :D

Here's hoping the installation process goes smoothly...


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