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-   -   I believe it is extremely hard to mess up Monster as a dub. (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=14369)

Psyonara 2004-05-25 15:39

I believe it is extremely hard to mess up Monster as a dub.
 
Who else thinks so?

I mean, there are no japanesy elements to get past (i.e the expressions)

so, it could translate perfectly into an english series...

unless they mess up the voices...

Yebyosh 2004-05-25 20:45

Nein, Nein. Es muß auf Deutsch sein.

:heh:

It could come off good in a Western dub.

Bandersnatch 2004-05-25 21:23

If they find new talent to do the dubs then it could be good. Im just sick of watching a dub and hearing the voice of Spike or the voice of someone from a different anime. Thats annoying as hell.

avmoghe 2004-05-25 21:29

Why even make a dub? Unless you're visually impaired, subtitles are the way to go. I've yet to find a single dub that carried across the emotions and tone of the japanese voice actors.

Melazoma 2004-05-25 22:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by avmoghe
Why even make a dub? Unless you're visually impaired, subtitles are the way to go. I've yet to find a single dub that carried across the emotions and tone of the japanese voice actors.

Therein lies the problem--people are lazy, especially the paying kind.
Working an anime-stocked(and I pushed for it, hard :) ) Blockbuster for two years has taught me that most customers prefer dubbing, be it Japanese anime or other foreign films. There were DVDs that came only with a French track(for instance, Amelie), I neglected to brief the dub-preferring customers of that fact and I caught hell because they expected a dub on a foreign film DVD. Much the same goes to anime, save a few rabid subtitlists that I can still remember :heh:
When asked why they want dubs and lose the original voices, those same customers reply "I don't want to read the subtitles."
And really, pretty much as a result of the above laziness, the best way to expand the anime market in the United States is via dubbing. Whether you like it or not, there is a steady demand for it. Laziness? Arrogance? Eh who cares as long as I get my uncut anime DVDs with the original Japanese track and subtitles :heh:

Yebyosh 2004-05-25 23:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by avmoghe
Why even make a dub? Unless you're visually impaired, subtitles are the way to go. I've yet to find a single dub that carried across the emotions and tone of the japanese voice actors.

The difficulty capturing emotional range and tone is true. However just because you have yet to encounter one doesn't mean it doesn't exist yet. For me, Saber Rider & the Star Sheriffs already did the job. But I'm not a dubbed fan. I just accept that for rare cases, a dub can come across pretty good.

In this case, Monster is not a total Japanese product. The whole story is based in Europe with European customs & traditions. The only Japanese perspective in the show is Tenma & his Japanese countrymen. It is a ridiculous argument to put it that Lunge or Johan thinks and behave like a Japanese.

As long as the Voice Actors immerse themselves in this product and "become one" with the characters, Monster (German dub) could be a better audio experience.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melazoma
"I speaketh of laziness of dub-lovers"

:heh: I won't argue against that since it does have a certain element of truth. But my support for a dubbed Monster is for a German dub (see my post). The audio experience if you want to go with the tones & inflexions would be more realistic.

Roots 2004-05-25 23:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by avmoghe
I've yet to find a single dub that carried across the emotions and tone of the japanese voice actors.

I have (just one): Princess Mononoke. In fact I like the English dub better than the Japanese dub, is that insane or what? But I watch everything else subbed, I don't really even give the dub much of a chance anymore. A lot of people seemed to agree that Cowboy Bebop's dub was good and I agree its better than the normal crap we get, but its just not good enough for me to want to listen to.

Back on subject, I agree I think a German dub of Monster would be kinda cool. I don't understand German, but I think its cool and its next on my list of languages to learn. I wish that Monster was originally voiced in German with Japanese subtitles, now THAT would be sweet :D

stpehen 2004-05-26 00:04

A dub for a series set in Europe might not have poorly pronounced Japanese names, but it has equal potential for poorly pronounced European names. Plus it doesn't have any bearing on the actual emotive talent of the actors.

That said, a dub with competent English-speaking German actors (accents and all) would be wicked.

ZeppelinJ0 2004-05-26 01:05

I agree with steph!! But I agree with everyone else too, there needs to be better VAs for Japanese shows like these. I'd be rather insulted if I put my heart in soul in to a work to have it ruined by something so trivial.

I mean take RahExephon for example... The VAs in english ARE HORRIBBBBLEEE AAUUGGGHHH... I have the .ogms from a LOONNGGG time ago, so I'm able to switch audio tracks on the fly. I mean they sound like they are totally faking the voices, it just irritates me. I mean Funimation did a nice job in their trailer of making a rather serious and complex show (FMA) look like a slightly serious kids show. ugh.

I think there should be more collaboration between the original authors and the english dubbers :)

durrem 2004-05-26 01:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psyonara
I believe it is extremely hard to mess up Monster as a dub.

I believe you're extremely underestimating the US VA's abilities to mess up a dub.

Seriously though, I'm playing Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic now and the VAs are very good. I don't understand why English Anime VAs suck so hard. I guess the anime companies are just too cheap to hire anyone with any actual talent...

weyoun6 2004-05-26 01:52

A couple of dubs I've seen have washed-out movie actors -like Castle in the sky- they need to not have TV actors but people with experiance in theater, radio, and voice acting in general. They tend not to seem very emotionally involved - even fruits basket dub, which everyone seems to like, sounds really bad to me after listening to the original track, plus they tend to use actors for more than one character.

Rhys 2004-05-26 03:36

Good dubs exist, although rare. I think the problem is that some actors don't take dubbing seriously, they just read lines and put it in a "cartoon character"'s mouth instead of actually "acting" the character.

Rather than an English dub, what I'd want to see is a German-Czecho dub and hear the names and places pronounced as they should be, even if I don't understand either language. Even better if Tenma's dubber is a German-speaking Japanese for the accent!

But perhaps it's just a dream... :(

wao 2004-05-28 06:43

Yeah, that sounds like a pretty neat idea :D It's great how Monster is based in real locations and really makes use of the various languages... Well, anyway - imagine if there was a DVD with Czech dub, German dub, Japanese dub, English dub, and then a special dub with all of them speaking in the respective languages and subtitles if you want. Whoa. That'd cost a bomb, especially for 70 episodes. :)


Still... if you got French people who are fluent in Japanese in movies like Wasabi...

Suikun 2004-05-28 14:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psyonara
Who else thinks so?

I mean, there are no japanesy elements to get past (i.e the expressions)

so, it could translate perfectly into an english series...

unless they mess up the voices...

Although it's very true that there are very few "Japanesy" things to get around, cultural differences and poorly chosen voices aren't my biggest problem with most English dubs.

My biggest problem, by and far, is the sheer number of awkard pauses or line-deliveries in an effort to lip-synch well, and often times the writing is ridiculously poor. Either they follow the Japanese script to the letter, which usually creates very, very awkard line-delivery, or the script is written so liberally that too many things are inferred from the dialogue when they shouldn't be.

Seeing on-screen translations then hearing the Japanese intonations and such produces a great result, whereas using that same on-screen translation as a script only with English voices is always awkward, but completely re-writting the script is equally as bad. Finding that balance when writing the English version of the script is usually very difficult, and not many English dubbers pull it off well (Disney is the only distributor so far who has consistently found that balance in their writing of the English dubs of anime).

Additionally, this same balance has to be applied to the voices themselves. Stay too close to what the Japanese have, and it sounds too unnatural. Become too liberal, and suddenly the voices don't match the personallity or appearance of the character. Again, I can only point to Disney as a consistent example of achieving this balance in the four Miyazaki movies they've dubbed.

In the end, dubbers need to find this balance; and the hard-core subbie fans need to realize that if the English version of something matched the Japanese version perfectly in voice tone and script, the result is usually pretty bad, and that script-rewritting and the casting of slightly different voices has to be done to make something sound natural, which in turn is why I think it's really a necessity that one throws most concern for "faithfulness to the original" out the window when watching dubs, because if you constantly compare it to the original, you'll only be disappointed, and it is almost physically impossible to get a dub that matches the original without sounding awkward and unnatural.

Faithfulness to the original and quality/natural-ness are almost contradicting features in anime dubs and it's damn near impossible to have both. Like I said, becoming too liberal or creative with the dub leads to problems as well, which is why there needs to be a definitive balance between the two.

ZeppelinJ0 2004-05-28 20:09

Quote:

Faithfulness to the original and quality/natural-ness are almost contradicting features in anime dubs and it's damn near impossible to have both. Like I said, becoming too liberal or creative with the dub leads to problems as well, which is why there needs to be a definitive balance between the two.
Well put! Don't make me use my Rah Xephon example again... If you're going to dub it, don't waste peoples time and money with half-assed acting. If scripting to the mouth movements is a problem, screw it, let it look like the spanish channel where the spanish is dubbed over english ;p

Pitar 2004-05-28 21:31

:oP those old USSR days when everything was dubbed by people that were overqualified for the positions and all the movies were dubbed so professionally that unless you knew that it was foreign, it never felt that way.

Biggest problem with dubs in U.S. is they don't find talanted people to do the dubbing. Even I can read a script but to carry over a feeling you need a good script as well as people that are GOOD at acting. U.S. takes ppl off the street ask him/her to read a couple of lines, hand him/her a 20 dollar bill and forget about the dubbing.

Ero-Sannin 2004-05-30 18:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by avmoghe
Why even make a dub? Unless you're visually impaired, subtitles are the way to go. I've yet to find a single dub that carried across the emotions and tone of the japanese voice actors.


Best Dub I have ever seen that was done soo well was on fushigu yugi,

And I seriously believe the english voices where better than the japanese,

so if they find the same dubbers who did Fushihu Yugi, it would be a really cool anime to release to all of America; since, this is one the most special anime I have ever seen.

Worst Dub I have ever seen was on Akira, god now I know why anime wasn't introduced earlier to the western world..

Fei-san 2004-06-01 07:26

Be glad you never heard swedish dubbed Beyblade/Pokémon/Sailor moon.
Aaaah the horror couldnt sleep for days.
Macross 2 dub wasnt that bad? havent seen it for like 6 years,in english of course :p

Domasai 2004-06-01 07:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psyonara
Who else thinks so?

I mean, there are no japanesy elements to get past (i.e the expressions)

so, it could translate perfectly into an english series...

unless they mess up the voices...

I can prove you wrong right now with a single 'What If...?' headline:

MONSTER IS LICENSED BY 4-KIDS ENTERTAINMENT!
In a surprising move, 4-Kids Entertainment has announced the license for MONSTER, a mystery series about a Japanese doctor searching for a murderer in Germany. When asked about the unlikely choice for the company, a high-pitch squeaky voice replied, "4-Kids has been overwhelmingly successful at bringing Japanese animation into the lives of millions of people throughout the United States. The acquisition of MONSTER is simply a sign that we're planning to alter our demographic to include young people in their early to mid teens. It really makes a lot of sense, from a standpoint of company growth. Of course the subject matter will have to be mildly edited, as most American viewers have little to no interest in Japanese doctors or Germany. They have even less interest in Japanese doctors living IN Germany. So Dr. Tanner will be searching Montana for the horrible killer behind the (mostly shown off-screen and cut for content) murders that have found their way into his previously normal American life."
..................
So, how'd I do?

Fighter Volk 2004-06-01 14:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Domasai
Of course the subject matter will have to be mildly edited, as most American viewers have little to no interest in Japanese doctors or Germany.

:heh: :heh: :heh: :heh: :heh:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Domasai
They have even less interest in Japanese doctors living IN Germany. So Dr. Tanner will be searching Montana for the horrible killer behind the (mostly shown off-screen and cut for content) murders that have found their way into his previously normal American life."

I can totally imagine that happening if 4-Kids DID license it
:heh:


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