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-   -   Arafat's dead. (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=23616)

AndrewLB 2004-11-10 23:20

Arafat's dead.
 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/3984841.stm

Well, I gotta say, fuck. He fought a good fight, and now he's dead. The guy was a huge fucking obstacle in some ways, and probably one of the best things to happen to the palestinians on the other. Not that there's many good things that have happened to the palestinians since the Israelis made off with their land.

Anyway, hopefully we'll see some more moderate people take over (Come on, someone boot Sharon), and maybe we'll survive Arafat in seeing some peace in that region.

Edit: Better use Israelis instead of Jews, since it's the Israelis who fucked up, not the Jewish people. Kinda the same thing, except without the anti-semetic shit.

hobobaggins 2004-11-10 23:34

http://cagle.slate.msn.com/working/041108/huffaker.gif sucks for ms. arafat.

now what happens?

AndrewLB 2004-11-10 23:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by hobobaggins
http://cagle.slate.msn.com/working/041108/huffaker.gif sucks for ms. arafat.

now what happens?

Probably Palestine as a whole spends several days in mourning, Israel increases their military force on the wall ten fold, and lots of people die.

??? 2004-11-10 23:39

Tributes.
 
Thats whats going to happen now , well half the world will say good riddance, the other half will mourn a great man.
Maybe there will be some progress now?

AndrewLB 2004-11-10 23:45

Not so long as Heman continues to disrupt the region.
http://andrewlb.com/temp/heman.jpg

HK anime seeker 2004-11-10 23:55

Arafat wanted to become the first primeminister of the "future" "Palestinian state". For that the world suffered as he held onto power not giving it more competent leaders. The Palestinians have suffered for the ego for this one man just because he wanted to go into the history books as the "first primeminister" of the "palastine state". Now that his death has be comfirmed there can be another step foward in History as another leader can step up and either continue his evil ways or advance the talks.

The middle east is a great mess already and its quite hard to comment on it without stepping on feet or getting roasted alive so to try not to be over cooked I say that its going to be interesting in the up comming months to come. Whether it be for better or worse.

LynnieS 2004-11-10 23:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewLB
Probably Palestine as a whole spends several days in mourning, Israel increases their military force on the wall ten fold, and lots of people die.

Need to also add (1) the infighting among the party's remaining leaders to officially take over his seat and role and (2) the arguing between his wife and the government to find and keep the money under Arafat's control for the government. There are supposed to be millions that were donated by governments and such hidden away and possibly under different names as account owners, but no one is really sure apparently. Something should be left; his wife supposedly got $100,000 a month for expenses according to an article in yesterday's newspapers.

Palestine's economy is already in the toilet from blocks placed to stop suicide bombers and retaliations from attacks. They certainly don't need this kind of nonsense, IMHO. Arafat should have started the succession plans a lot sooner. :(

Edit - Have to agree with HK Anime Seeker's statement, though. It'll be "interesting" to see how things go over the next few months to a year.

Green² 2004-11-11 00:06

http://s03.imagehost.org/0309/041028Condolences-X.gif

??? 2004-11-11 00:08

History has shown that he's not interested in peace.

if the US and or Israel decide to put a "puppet" (like Iraq) in charge after Arafat's death.....they would then say that anyone who opposes this action would be "against freedom" for the Palestinian people and thus the killings of Palestinians would continue.

Middle-east is a great mess.

Kempis Curious 2004-11-11 00:33

I guess the "Weekend at Bernie's" routine is over.... someone must have convinced the Swiss bankers that this corpse nodding his head means the billions of dollars should be transferred to someone.

It's too bad Arafat was unwilling or unable to control the radical elements of the Palestinians who ruined the Oslo agreements. Now the Israelis and Palentinians hate each other deeply... the only road to peace now is all-out warfare and the complete subjugation/extermination of one of the sides.

-k

curious

NoSanninWa 2004-11-11 02:46

You seem to think that the death of Arafat means that the warfare will get worse.

Well, I'm hopefull that with Arafat dead someone else will take over negotiations with Israel that is either more willing or better able to bring a cease-fire. This could be the beginning of peace, not its end.

TrueKnight 2004-11-11 03:11

Actually if Israel had more people like Yzhak(sp?) Rabin who actually encourage peace talk but was shot by his own radical fucking people, then yes there will be a peace talk. Of course, that goes to the Palestinians as well, to stop all the suicide bombing and such, but then again, they did those things because of the Israelis, so who's on the card?

aahhsin 2004-11-11 03:31

Oh boy... this is going to be interesting in a few months...

If Sharon doesn't let Arafat be buried in Jerulselem then there's not going to be peace talks any time soon. (I think this conflict is over, someone correct me)

Who woulda known that Arafat won a noble Peace Prize....? I certainly didn't...

I personally feel that the Palastinians do deserve a place to live, but right now it doesn't look like it's happening.

Can we blame the british for making that treaty? T.E. Lawrance? Heck that guy probably could have united the Arabs and they'll have a nice Arab state.

Fel 2004-11-11 03:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by aahhsin
Oh boy... this is going to be interesting in a few months...

If Sharon doesn't let Arafat be buried in Jerulselem then there's not going to be peace talks any time soon. (I think this conflict is over, someone correct me)

Who woulda known that Arafat won a noble Peace Prize....? I certainly didn't...

I personally feel that the Palastinians do deserve a place to live, but right now it doesn't look like it's happening.

Can we blame the british for making that treaty? T.E. Lawrance? Heck that guy probably could have united the Arabs and they'll have a nice Arab state.


Yeah, Kissinger and Teddy Bear won them too.
.....oy.

subcool 2004-11-11 04:16

hurray another terrorist dead =D
now for the rest...

lolicon 2004-11-11 05:40

Honestly, Arafat was never really anything more than a figurehead that could coax people into violent action. He was never directly involved in anything, and his entire purpose for being involved in the conflict was to make money. I believe that he was never directly concerned with the goals of the muslims, but saw it as an excellent way to make money. The israelis were more than happy to give him a little exposure, because it gave them ALOT of power to expand and solidify their military. Israel is now the de facto power in the middle-east thanks to Arafat, but without him there probably won't be a conflict. Right now, its time for the moderate muslims to take over what arafat is doing, because they smell alot of money that can be made from the situation. Their goal is a little more intellegent, attempting to turn the muslim states into an economic asset that could cripple israel. If something like that happens, then we could very well see a muslim state based solely on the financial influence the moderate muslims would have on israel.

Just an idle pondering, though... don't take it as a serious analysis.

7thMethuselah 2004-11-11 07:03

Actually you got a few of your facts wrong

Quote:

Originally Posted by lolicon
Honestly, Arafat was never really anything more than a figurehead that could coax people into violent action. He was never directly involved in anything, and his entire purpose for being involved in the conflict was to make money.

Arafat has been figthing the Israeli's since the sixtees. In short : after Israel won their independence war the Israeli's drove most of the Palestinians out of current day Israel, these refugees (which included Arafat) are up to this day (50 years later !!! ) still living in the refugee camps in the currents palestinians territories, in Jordan and In Lebanon.

Arafat fled to Egypt and joined the PLO. The PLO was an organisation that wanted to fight back and retake the Palestine lost land and homes which were taken by the Israeli military (Keep in mind that there weren't alot of jewes living in Israel before 1900, the immigration only started during the british rule and after WWII).

Because the PLO was still weak at that time, all they did was attack small installations and stuff, however Arafat was able to get a group of trained fighters together and create a small army in Jordan. Israel then invaded Jordan to crush this little army at it's border, It succeeded but in the Palestine and Arab world this battle was seen as a great succes since it was the first time someone actually was able to stand up against the Israeli Army.

As a consequence Arafat gained alot of popularity and thousands of people joined the PLO and their cause. I believe Arafat became leader of the PLO somewhere in this period (can't remember exactly).

What happens next is : This army keeps growing and growing and eventually we have a rather well equipped and trained army living in Jordan under PLO rule, keep in mind that this is an army the PLO tries to build up to fight Israel, these are NOT suicide bombers and stuff !!! However this huge army disstabilises Jordan and the king of Jordan (fearing he will be overthrown) attacks it. The PLO takes a heavy blow and flees to Lebanon.

Here Arafat rebuilds his army and starts attacking Israel from South lebanon, launching missiles and performing small raids and military operations against Israel, however he is no match for the Israeli army.

In the eighties , Israel invades Lebanon and besieges Beiroet in an effort to destroy the PLO, Arafat barely survives and flees to Lybia. Expelled from the region he seeks to free, he then travels the world to make his cause known. He won't return untill the first intifada starts.


Quote:

Originally Posted by lolicon
I believe that he was never directly concerned with the goals of the muslims, but saw it as an excellent way to make money. The israelis were more than happy to give him a little exposure, because it gave them ALOT of power to expand and solidify their military. Israel is now the de facto power in the middle-east thanks to Arafat, but without him there probably won't be a conflict.

Not entirely correct, the palestine territories have extremely poor living accomodations, along with the colonies being build into palestine territory this resulted into 1987 to the First Intifada, this were students and young people who couldn't take the situation any more and started a revolt against Israeli soldiers by throwing stones. At this time Arafat (still in Lybia) seizes the opportunity to become the spokesman for the Palestinians in negotiations with the Isreali.

Eventualy this will lead to the Oslo peace agreements in which
1. Arafat denounces terrorism
2. Arafat recognises the state Israel
3. a Palestinian State is founded

However, when the Israeli prime minister Rabin is murdered, Sharon comes to power, he has a completely different view on the situation and starts building colonies and such into palestine terrotory again (amonst other things), the result is the second Intifada, which is again started by students , not Arafat, with suicide bombers and all which still is in place today.


The situation in israel is very complex and both parties are guilty of many crimes, both Arafat and Israel. The only way to get out of the conflict is to lay down the weapons, but suicide bombers won't stop untill Israel stops using tanks and bulldozers to attack palestines. And the bulldozers and co won't stop until the bombs stop.

So someone has to stop first, but this can only happen through negotiations, Sharon however doesn't want to talk to the palestinians, hence the spiral of violence.

I hope that Arafat's death will lead to a new peace negotiation between israel and Palestine but with Sharon in power and Bush not really the peace making type I think we are gonna see alot more violence in the coming years. :sad:

Edit : PS Keep in mind this is what I remember, it may have a few errors left and right, I was too lazy to look things up

lolicon 2004-11-11 07:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by 7thMethuselah
A whole bunch of stuff here.

Excellent post. I should have at least read a wikipedia article on the situation, but that clarifies a great many things. The politics surrounding israel are extremely complex, and the balance of power there is one of the most intricate in the world. I wish there was a simple way to dissect this, but after reading a bit more about it, I don't think that anyone will be able to reliably pick the outcome of Arafats death.

subcool 2004-11-11 10:51

uhm...Isreal never fought an independence war o_O
what is now israel was a colony of Britain i believe, it was granted to them with the UN's aproval after the 2nd WW... They simply expanded their territory during the wars they fought with Egypt and their surrounding countries.

??? 2004-11-11 11:19

Israel as powerfull weapons, like in the US.

On the whole Arafat's passing is a positive development. He was a favorite excuse for Likud and Bush administrations to put off the dismantling of Israeli apartheid. Now that excuse is gone.

I wish Arafat had stayed a civil engineer, and had never contributed to the destruction of Lebanon for Palestine's sake, and the stigmatization of Palestinians and Arabs as terrorists in the minds of millions with only a very superficial grasp of modern mideastern history.

Here's hoping that Palestinians can raise up a true statesman and reformer now that Arafat is out of the way. Anticipation of some sort of violent power-struggle in his wake is curious to me- I think that speaks more to the distorted image of Palestinian society in the West, than it does to the realities of life under occupation and exile at the hands of Israel, and the realities of the legitimate Palestinian struggle for the most basic of civil rights. Palestinians have no chance at reclaiming their dignity until they overcome negative stereotypes in the USA, from whence Israeli apartheid is propped up. New leadership is an opportunity for some new clarity.


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