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hi no ken Jebus 2005-12-21 13:00

Chapter 209 [Manga] Discussion
 
First the results of the popularity poll that were mentioned last chapter.
http://img277.imageshack.us/img277/3...poll6um.th.jpg

1. Ichigo 8370
2. Hitsugaya 8321
3. Rukia 6122
4. Renji 4517
5.Ichimaru 4039
6.Byakuya 3752
7.Yoruichi 3744
8.Urahara 3676
9.Kenpachi 3001
10.Inoue 2901
11:イヅル Izuru 2873 12:雛森 Hinamori 2735 13:檜佐木 Hisagi 2317 14:浮竹 Ukitake 2298  15:雨竜 Uryuu 1742
16:砕蜂 Soi Fong 1628 17:松本 Matsumoto 1377 .18:藍染 Aizen 1266   19:やちる Yachiru 1224 20:ウルキオラ Ulquiorra 737

21:七緒 Nanao 609  22:コン Kon 601  23:雨 Ururu 566   24:花太郎 Hanatarou 545  25:東仙 Tousen 519
26:一角 Ikkaku 456  27:マユリ Mayuri 448 28:京楽 Kyouraku 445  29:一心 Isshin 440  30:茶渡 Sado 370

And for the chapter "Lift the limit"
Spoiler:


Also this is a double issue so no chapter for next week.

Gattzu 2005-12-21 13:06

Looks like an interesting chapter although nothing happends in it, well it's always good with some story:D

RX79GMCustom 2005-12-21 13:26

ikakku beat his opponent with the restricton on. so this means renj, hitsu and matsu will own:bow:

Scarlet 2005-12-21 13:29

Thanks for the summary of the chapter. I find it hard to believe that they still had their powers limited. Why would SS do that? It doesn't make any sense. They obviously know how strong these arrancar are, yet they limit there power...

I forgot how much Renji said they were limited though. I think it was 1/5?

Giovone 2005-12-21 13:57

Chapter seems interesting.

Lackadaisical 2005-12-21 14:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scarlet
Thanks for the summary of the chapter. I find it hard to believe that they still had their powers limited. Why would SS do that? It doesn't make any sense. They obviously know how strong these arrancar are, yet they limit there power...

I forgot how much Renji said they were limited though. I think it was 1/5?


There seems to be two reasons that could be possible. Obviously, shinigami can cause problems in any area they are in if their spirit power is too high. If they walk around unrestricted the damage they cause might be greater than the good they cause by defeating hollows.


First, if Soul Society has to prepare some kind of special field to protect the surrounding area from the effects of a completely unhindered VC or Captain shinigami, the field might not be something that can be in effect continuously. As such, the shinigami would have to wait until they were in need of the restriction being lifted to ask for the field to be placed. Which would be the reason why it took so long to be allowed to fight unrestricted. In bureaucratic fashion, they first had to in enough danger to need to be unrestricted and then had to wait to become unrestricted.

Secondly, if there is no way to protect an area from a VC or Captain's spirit power except through restriction, it would mean the restriction would only be removed when it was certain that they had no other way to protect the human world but to fight unrestricted, which damages the human world. Essentially, in this sense, given that their role is to protect the human world, they would only do something that damages the human world, fighting unrestricted, when the damage caused by their action was less than the damage caused by not acting unrestricted.


Was it mentioned if all shinigami are under the restriction or is it just the shinigami known to be powerful enough to effect the surrounding area through their presence?

Uruz7 2005-12-21 14:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lackadaisical
Was it mentioned if all shinigami are under the restriction or is it just the shinigami known to be powerful enough to effect the surrounding area through their presence?

I didn't pick up the manga until about halfway through the SS arc, but I remember in the anime when Renji and Byakuya come to arrest Rukia, it's mentioned that VC-level and above are restricted. May have been explained differently in manga though.

Kona 2005-12-21 15:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uruz7
I didn't pick up the manga until about halfway through the SS arc, but I remember in the anime when Renji and Byakuya come to arrest Rukia, it's mentioned that VC-level and above are restricted. May have been explained differently in manga though.

They can only use 20% of their power on earth. Would cause too much mayhem if they went all out..

eMpTy265 2005-12-21 15:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by RX79GMCustom
ikakku beat his opponent with the restricton on. so this means renj, hitsu and matsu will own:bow:

Was Ikakku seen with something like a power limiter though?

Cuz if Ikakku never showed his powers, it is possible that SS didn't give a limiter to Ikkaku.
(Since he didn't accept VC or above, he might not be required to wear a limiter)

I wonder if Ichigo's abilities were limited? Afterall he is only a replacement Shinigami...

***

(Somehow I'm starting to get DB vibes from this fight... it's almost like how you have the heroes fight with 20-tons worth of clothing, then tossing it away for the real fight...)


(At least Ichigo doesn't wait for himself to 'die' before going bankai...)

Souzouryoku 2005-12-21 15:31

Hmmm..sounds like an interesting chapter..

Well, atleast Hitsu isn't down for the count :D I was almost sure he was. Now that the power limit has been lifted, I'm sure the battles will turn around, and good guys will start winning again. Though, I think it would have been smarter of Matsumoto to also have asked for reinforcements...

I've been wondering about why the Arrancar were numbered the way they were...it makes sense. Looks like Grimjaw is uber powerful :| I am a little worried about how powerful the ones ahead of him are though. Seems like trouble for the future...

Ichigo going bankai? Wow...saw that coming from a mile away. Looks like we are getting closer to the fight I've been waiting for :D Ichigo vs. Grimjaw!! :D

Biswa 2005-12-21 16:54

At this point, i find Ikkaku's strength totally unrealistic... it seems like a weird plot hole now, no matter what. Kinda unexplainable now, i think. That would mean that Ichigo was initially very powerful, and so was Tetsumon (sp? the 7th division VC). Kinda weird...

Also I hope these guys get pushed back a bit.... too bad Ichigo doesn't get any extra release. Maybe Isshin/Vaizards will help Ichigo survive a bit. Also, with the introduction of this whole class of Arrankar stronger than them shows that Ichigo will need new training. Hope Isshin does the training. Havent seen him in a while.

Speaking of not seeing people in a while : ISHIDA! Where the hell is he? Hope he's done his training... but dunno how he'll react to this situation.

Yaktura ::. 2005-12-21 17:07

So basicly they just asked for permission to go SSJ2 :uhoh: :D

CorpMazral3 2005-12-21 17:07

Quote:

Also I hope these guys get pushed back a bit.... too bad Ichigo doesn't get any extra release. Maybe Isshin/Vaizards will help Ichigo survive a bit. Also, with the introduction of this whole class of Arrankar stronger than them shows that Ichigo will need new training. Hope Isshin does the training. Havent seen him in a while.

Speaking of not seeing people in a while : ISHIDA! Where the hell is he? Hope he's done his training... but dunno how he'll react to this situation
If isshin training is anything is anything like training with Urahara then I can't wait :D
Ishida is probably busy avoiding all of the shinigami..who have all of a sudden popped out of nowhere...he's most likely trainig though. Can't wait to see his face when he runs into ichigo :p it is bound to happen sometime.

Kona 2005-12-21 17:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biswa
At this point, i find Ikkaku's strength totally unrealistic... it seems like a weird plot hole now, no matter what. Kinda unexplainable now, i think. That would mean that Ichigo was initially very powerful, and so was Tetsumon (sp? the 7th division VC). Kinda weird....

Not really, sure he is Captain Level but he doesnt have the
Status Of Captain or Vice Captain thats why he doesnt have a limiter. And the fact that his bankai gets stronger every attack made his victory.

Suiton 2005-12-21 17:22

Ok, first post in a while...

Seemed like some people are upset with this "power up". I wouldn't think of this as a "power up" since it is a form of restriction (for a purpose too). Ironically, before this chapter, people were upset with how weak the good guys are...

Back on topic, having only 3 petals left, I think Hitsugaya may still need some help unless they go for a "most powerful attack" vs "most powerful attack" to end the fight. Or would he give us a shocker?

Souzouryoku 2005-12-21 17:25

Quote:

Not really, sure he is Captain Level but he doesnt have the
Status Of Captain or Vice Captain thats why he doesnt have a limiter. And the fact that his bankai gets stronger every attack made his victory.

Did it ever state that only Captain and Vice Captain level shinigami had a restriction on their power?

And yes, Ikkaku's strength is very "unrealistic". If he could beat his opponent (even if only by a hair)..shouldn't Hitsugaya and Matsumoto be able to defeat this guy? However, we should take into account the strength of the Arrancar...Il forte (he's the one they are fighting right? I always get them confused..) could be more powerful than the one that Ikkaku faced. However, if he wasn't..well..then that is just pathetic. And..Ichigo beat Ikkaku...which would mean that he is waay stronger than someone who is "stronger" than a captain. Very unrealistic.

Kona 2005-12-21 17:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Souzouryoku
Did it ever state that only Captain and Vice Captain level shinigami had a restriction on their power?

And yes, Ikkaku's strength is very "unrealistic". If he could beat his opponent (even if only by a hair)..shouldn't Hitsugaya and Matsumoto be able to defeat him? However, we should take into account the strength of the Arrancar...Il forte (he's the one they are fighting right? I always get them confused..) could be more powerful than the one that Ikkaku faced. However, if he wasn't..well..then that is just pathetic. And..Ichigo beat Ikkaku...which means that he is waay stronger than someone who is "stronger" than a captain. Very unrealistic.

Yes got this from another site... not gonna say who but "We return to Hitsugaya, who watches Matsumoto waiting for somesort of permission to come from the transmitter she's holding. It's the permission to cancel the limitation that Shinigami have on their reiatsu to fight in the living world; apparently Hitsugaya's been waiting for the green light to go full power. Finally, at the end of the sequence, permission is granted and Matsumoto shouts out to Hitsugaya. (Well, that shows us why the Shinigami have been more or less losing this engagement. Additionally, since Ikkaku isn't a Captain or Vice-Captain, the limitation does not apply to him => massive victory with Ryuumon Hoozukimaru.)"

Eandia 2005-12-21 17:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yaktura ::.
So basicly they just asked for permission to go SSJ2 :uhoh: :D

Come on people, don't go this way. The creator is trying to be creative and original and all you can do is try to find faults and compare.

Souzouryoku 2005-12-21 17:44

Quote:

(Well, that shows us why the Shinigami have been more or less losing this engagement. Additionally, since Ikkaku isn't a Captain or Vice-Captain, the limitation does not apply to him => massive victory with Ryuumon Hoozukimaru.)"
As long as Ikkaku isn't more powerful than Hitsugaya..I'm happy...

Quote:

Come on people, don't go this way. The creator is trying to be creative and original and all you can do is try to find faults and compare.
Grrr..agreed..I really hate when people say stuff like "this power up is soo dbz"or something like that... I'm probably repeating myself..I've said this a billion times. Bleach is very creative, but of course there are going to be things like that. Bleach is a shonen anime..which means there is going to be powerups, good guys winning almost every battle..etc..Just live with it. :D

Nightengale 2005-12-21 17:50

No offence, but this whole power limiter thing is really getting out of hand. The scenario they're in are totally different from the Rukia capture one, and they had time to wait for permission from the upper-ups while fighting enemies they themselves claim to be stronger than captains? Way unrealistic if you ask me.

And Ikkaku not having a limiter itself is a plot hole. Even when Ikkaku kept his Bankai a secret, it's already a clear fact that he's at a VC level. Just because he's not in rank, he doesn't get a limiter when he's fully as capable as the others. Nonsense.

*Sighs*

With this level of development, I think it's clear that all of the Arrankar will lose except probably Grimjoww. Then again, he's fighting the "main character"

Kubo, is it so hard to let the Shinigamis actually lose, and needing their butt saved by....someone, Ryuken, Vizards, etc. I don't particularly enjoy seeing the repetition of the shounen formula no. XX.

"Good Guys Almost Always Overcome the Odds."


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