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peter2004 2005-12-31 22:11

Ichigo's hollow powers
 
:heh: Since the episode discussion threads are being flooded with theories about this, I think it's time it got a thread of it's own to relieve some pressure. Please feel free to add more theories and dismiss or validate other theories.

So far the main theories are:

1. He got it from the pit when he almost died/turned in to a hollow.
2. Rukia trasfered it to him when she gave him shinigami powers.
3. He is a reincarnation of Kaien which was turned in to a hollow before he died.
4. His own shinigami were a hollow hybrid to begin with and got unlocked along with his shinigami powers in the pit.
5. He inherited it from his mother and/or father.
6. Urahara advertedly put Ichigo in the pit knowing it would make him into a hybrid hollow.
7. The hougyoku affected Ichigo's own shinigamai powers when he was around Rukia not when she transferred her powers.
8. A combination of 3 and 5. One of Ichigo's ancestors is the reincarnation of Kaien.
9. A modification of 1. The hollow Ichigo turned up to stop him from becoming a full hollow so he wouldn't lose his host.
10. An extension of 4. The hollow couldn't take over because Rukia's powers where somehow surpressing him.

My theory:
The hougyoku within Rukia didn't affect Ichigo directly in the shinigami transfer. Since they were Rukia's powers they might have gotten immune to the hougyoku or something. But maybe Ichigo's own hidden powers were more susceptible and when he spent time with Rukia they gor more and more corrupted. Much like the way Ichigo leaked powers to others he might have absorbed the hollow powers from Rukia. So in the pit when he almost died the hollow came out and saved him, like it has done numerous times since then.

Optional addon to my theory:
Rukia was also very close to Kaien and spent alot of time with him. And if Ichigo is the reincarnation of Kaien or somehow otherwise connected to him, this might have some significance as well. Maybe because the soul got exposed in both the spirit world and the real world it had some kind of extra influence.

NoSanninWa 2006-01-01 01:45

Oh dear. I don't want to ban anyone, so listen up.

Here's the deal for everyone to cope with if they have either read the manga or heard about what happens after the coming filler arc: If you bring up anything that hasn't yet been mentioned in the anime, you had better use a spoiler tag. This particular spoiler won't be mentioned until after the filler arc, so you'll have to keep your lips zipped for a long time.

It will be tempting to use your spoiler knowlege to debate a particular point, so don't even think about debating it. You know what I mean. For any anime-only watchers reading this, don't worry about it too much if manga readers seem antsy about a particular point. They don't really know the answer, but some of them think that something is a lot more important than it might turn out to be.

Now here's a tutorial for using spoilers:

[spoiler=Bleach manga chapter 1234]
Finally we know the truth! Ichigo's inner hollow manifested as a result of eating his dad's cooking.
[/spoiler]


Will create this:
Spoiler for Bleach manga chapter 1234:

eLcHaKeTeRo 2006-01-01 06:57

i think that we are missing the bigger picture here........how in the hell did Urahara inbed the Hougyoku in Rukia's soul with/out her rembering it ?........thats buggin the crap out of me......

Quote:

Originally Posted by peter2004
My theory:
The hougyoku within Rukia didn't affect Ichigo directly in the shinigami transfer. Since they were Rukia's powers they might have gotten immune to the hougyoku or something. But maybe Ichigo's own hidden powers were more susceptible and when he spent time with Rukia they gor more and more corrupted. Much like the way Ichigo leaked powers to others he might have absorbed the hollow powers from Rukia. So in the pit when he almost died the hollow came out and saved him, like it has done numerous times since then.

i beg to differ....i think that it did have something to do with everyone else's powers...it could be a catalyst of some sort for spirit power......but then again ichigo was able to break free from Rukia's binding spell before he even became a shinigami...


and i stopped reading the manga 'cuz i was getting way ahead and i didnt like it...i likke to see averything in the anime.....but i still love the manga

eLcHaKeTeRo 2006-01-01 08:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Small One
:confused: Were is your problem? There are dozens of possibilies how this could have happened: He could have done it while she was sleeping. Or he could possess a memory altering technology.
And the most simple, and probably correct, solution: Do you remember the time, whe you were still an infant? Rukia was abandoned, when she was a baby, so Urahara probably did it at this time... however, this is off-topic in this thread.



Not to the real topic:
What exactly is the point of this thread? What do you want to know?
Are you asking, how he got this inner hollow, or are you asking why?

There shouldn't be a question on the when: He obviously gained it, during the time in Urahara's pit. He didn't show any sign of a hollow before.

I have a new theory: Up to this time, Ichigo was a normal human with sprit powers, but before throwing him into the pit, Urahara killed him and turned him into a spirit, to become a Shinigami. Now as we know since the first chapter/episode, Ichigo has a huge amount of spirit power, and we also know from Aizen's explanation, that Shinigamis and Hollows are limited in their power.
My guess is, that Ichigo's natural spirit power was too much to fit into a normal Shinigami or Hollow, so his soul searched for a way to fit all its powers into a new vessel, so it created this split personality.



sleeping?.........LMAO.......but u do bring up a good point as to when she was abandoned.....and im only asking the question because im sure im goin to enjoy the answer......

but how do u know that one body can only hold so much spirt power?.....i dont think thats the case here though....

gangsta905_04 2006-01-01 12:30

For Anime Watchers and NoSanninWa,

This was discussed in episode 61, or 62 of Bleach. May i remind you...the Gigai that Urahara offered Rukia?

eLcHaKeTeRo 2006-01-01 13:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by gangsta905_04
For Anime Watchers and NoSanninWa,

This was discussed in episode 61, or 62 of Bleach. May i remind you...the Gigai that Urahara offered Rukia?

is this guy dense?..........you cant hide hougyoku in the gigai.....c'mon buddy the rest of the class is page on 39........

NoSanninWa 2006-01-02 02:59

That's not what gangsta905_04 means. He is saying that when Uruhara put Rukia into that gigai, he could have put the Hougyoku into Rukia's soul. She might not have noticed anything since he was already operating on her.

This theory suggests that the Hougyoku was put into Rukia AFTER she left Soul Society, instead of before she left, as everyone else believes. Since Aizen implies that she had the Hougyoku before she went AWOL (remember that he was looking for her), then it is not likely to be correct.

hellsfire 2006-01-02 05:03

The thing is people keep saying that Rukia could have given the Hollow powers to Ichigo when she transfered her powers BUT I recall hearing that rukia got the (forget the word) when she got the fox body. Didn't Aizen say that Urahara (sorry if i got name wrong my memory often fails me with names so lets say Shop keeper) tricked her when she lost her powers and didn't want to be kind but use her to hide the ( dont remember word) in her body.


My theroy is that he got it passed down from his Mothers side or something. Because he has em for a while after he is sent in pit (witch might also be how but i dougt it i think it just pulled it out a bit more) you see his soul slayer whats his name talking to the hollow version of Ichigo. Saying something along these lines "He will be your's dont worry."

Sorry if things have been explained other wise im only at episode 62 (its where lunar is)

P.S : i did best that i can with grammer :) im not that great of a speller lol. Its not really spelling thats my problem but it's making sentences...

NoSanninWa 2006-01-02 05:12

Sorry, but I don't understand how or why you think that he inherited being a hollow from his Mother? Do you think that his mother was actually a hollow? This is something that seems to contradict the show since his mother was eaten by a hollow and they have never been shown to prey on their own kind.

eLcHaKeTeRo 2006-01-02 07:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by hellsfire
The thing is people keep saying that Rukia could have given the Hollow powers to Ichigo when she transfered her powers BUT I recall hearing that rukia got the (forget the word) when she got the fox body. Didn't Aizen say that Urahara (sorry if i got name wrong my memory often fails me with names so lets say Shop keeper) tricked her when she lost her powers and didn't want to be kind but use her to hide the ( dont remember word) in her body.


My theroy is that he got it passed down from his Mothers side or something. Because he has em for a while after he is sent in pit (witch might also be how but i dougt it i think it just pulled it out a bit more) you see his soul slayer whats his name talking to the hollow version of Ichigo. Saying something along these lines "He will be your's dont worry."

Sorry if things have been explained other wise im only at episode 62 (its where lunar is)

P.S : i did best that i can with grammer :) im not that great of a speller lol. Its not really spelling thats my problem but it's making sentences...



....i just watched this episode again....and i think it has to be directly linked to the time when he got his shinigami powers back.......because even zangetsu is aware
of the other personality......i could say all sorts of crazy thing but i would just make a fool out of myself...

....and he said to him "train him well, his power will be mine one day"...

-EDIT-
...even ur corrections need corrections.....lol...im not trying to instigate....its just funny....

hellsfire 2006-01-02 14:39

NoSanninWa : Sorry but I don't understand how or why you think that he inherited being a hollow from his Mother? Do you think that his mother was actually a hollow? This is something that seems to contradict the show since his mother was eaten by a hollow and they have never been shown to prey on their own kind.


response : Well it can't be from his father's side of the family. He and the little girl are the only ones who can't see ghosts in the family.

eLcHaKeTeRo : ...and he said to him "train him well, his power will be mine one day"...

response : Yea thats what i meant his soul slayer is aware of the hollow form of him and say's -^

P.S: can someone tell me how to do the quotes i don't remember 0_o

Grees 2006-01-02 14:56

There's a quote button, use it. On the reply screen you'll see the code for quoting.

hellsfire 2006-01-02 14:57

I see I see. Thanks =]

Ziv 2006-01-02 14:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by hellsfire
NoSanninWa : Sorry but I don't understand how or why you think that he inherited being a hollow from his Mother? Do you think that his mother was actually a hollow? This is something that seems to contradict the show since his mother was eaten by a hollow and they have never been shown to prey on their own kind.


response : Well it can't be from his father's side of the family. He and the little girl are the only ones who can't see ghosts in the family.

eLcHaKeTeRo : ...and he said to him "train him well, his power will be mine one day"...

response : Yea thats what i meant his soul slayer is aware of the hollow form of him and say's -^

P.S: can someone tell me how to do the quotes i don't remember 0_o

his soul slayer isn't just aware of his hollow self. it's fused with his hollow. Don't you remember how in ichigo's mind, hollow ichigo particalizes and gets sucked into zangetsu as he's saying "train him well, his power will be mine one day"?

Soluzar 2006-01-02 18:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ziv
his soul slayer isn't just aware of his hollow self. it's fused with his hollow. Don't you remember how in ichigo's mind, hollow ichigo particalizes and gets sucked into zangetsu as he's saying "train him well, his power will be mine one day"?

I found that part very hard to swallow. It has been shown that Zangetsu cares for Ichigo, and wants him to succeed, and be happy. Why then would Zangetsu betray Ichigo to his "inner hollow"?

Chikara 2006-01-02 19:30

I think someone infused a hollow inside Ichigo, so that in the future it would take over and became a very very powerful soldier against the shinigami.

eLcHaKeTeRo 2006-01-03 01:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbruns
Ururu is teh hawt. I hope ichigo taps that some day when its revealed how he got his soul

Spoiler for for a kinda innapropriate question:



Quote:

Originally Posted by chikara
I think someone infused a hollow inside Ichigo, so that in the future it would take over and became a very very powerful soldier against the shinigami.

why woudl you think that......i dont think that Ichigo's sole purpouse in life is to go to war against the shinigami of SS

Quote:

Originally Posted by soluzar
I found that part very hard to swallow. It has been shown that Zangetsu cares for Ichigo, and wants him to succeed, and be happy. Why then would Zangetsu betray Ichigo to his "inner hollow"?

how exactly is Zangetsu betrying Ichigo, i dont get that part

Quote:

Originally Posted by ziv
his soul slayer isn't just aware of his hollow self. it's fused with his hollow. Don't you remember how in ichigo's mind, hollow ichigo particalizes and gets sucked into zangetsu as he's saying "train him well, his power will be mine one day"?

yeah, that kinda did freak me out a little, i dont even want to begin speculating because ill give myseld a headache

NoSanninWa 2006-01-03 06:37

I'm not sure why you think that this was a betrayal by Zangetsu, even if you assume that Zangetsu is opposed to hollow-Ichigo. Obviously it is good for Ichigo to become stronger, even if hollow-Ichigo also wants it.

This is one thing that both Ichigo and hollow-Ichigo can equally benefit from. It has no bearing on who gets that strength in the end.

Grees 2006-01-03 07:47

Perceive it as betrayal isnt half that weird, since Ichigo obviously suffers from multiple personality disorder (all death gods do, except for Kenpachi, who actually wants to be a nut like the others, but cant), Zangetsu is a personality on his own telling Ichi what to do and stuff, but hollow ichigo just want to take over and take care of business himself.

1.0.7. 2006-01-03 07:48

we must note though..that ichigo's hollow isn't some mindless ghost on crack.. on what we can gather.. he knows what he's doing..
furthermore, it can't be that it just came out of uruhara's training
for one thing, he seems to be very well acquinted with zangetsu. if zangetsu has been ichigo's zanpuktou since forever (remember, the training was just suppose to release zangetsu), it also must be that this hollow has been in him since then?
also, the hollow said "he's strong you know" and that one day ichigo's power will be his.. this seems to be that this guy is a seperate entity and has been residing within ichigo for quite some time.


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