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remase2 2006-03-20 21:36

Building A Computer
 
i am thinking about building a computer, never done it and i would like to know what mother boards are better intel or amd.
Also what is a good price range to look for a motherboard.

ImperialPanda 2006-03-20 21:43

"intel" and "amd" are not mobos.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=build+a+computer

To get a general feel for prices http://pricewatch.com

Skip the first few generics tho.

Ledgem 2006-03-21 00:01

If you want recommendations on hardware, let us know your general price range, as well as what you want to use the computer for.

Danj 2006-03-21 05:21

Assuming that by "mother boards" you meant "processor" and by "better" you meant "higher performance", the latest word on the street is that the upcoming Intel chip codenamed Conroe will be "better" than any of AMD's offerings.

However, I agree with the other posters in saying that it'd be much easier to recommend stuff if you provide a price range and some idea of what you want it for.

remase2 2006-03-21 07:12

my price range is 150-250 and yeah i meant processors and i was checking out both motherboards and processors at newegg

RaistlinMajere 2006-03-21 22:58

I recommend not doing this. It's one of those "if you need to ask..." type things. You'll need to do a lot of research before you should even attempt it.

Hyperion 2006-03-22 02:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by remase2
my price range is 150-250 and yeah i meant processors and i was checking out both motherboards and processors at newegg

now is that price for the whole comp, or just for your motherboard?

Icehellion 2006-03-22 21:04

for building a computer w/o monitor your looking @ least $1000 USD

CPU: 64 bit dual core
motherboard look for one pci x1 (gigabit ethernet) and pc x16 (vid card)

also, DO NOT GO CHEAP ON THE CASE, I learned the hard way. bought one for $30 with a 550 W power supply, that freaking case gave me homicidal urges. the freaking pci opening didn't fit all the cards. I had to get a plier to "loosen it up", it had a cheap ass locking mechanism for said pci. I had to cut one of the mounts on my vid card because it got in the way of the lock. motherboard mount was freaking soft that it kept bending when trying to secure that mobo to it, finally got pissed and got me a (i think overpriced) antec case, now that was solid!!!! All the screws and cards fit nice and snug.

GundamZZ 2006-03-23 00:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Icehellion
for building a computer w/o monitor your looking @ least $1000 USD

CPU: 64 bit dual core
motherboard look for one pci x1 (gigabit ethernet) and pc x16 (vid card)

That's too expensive for me. I don't go for high end PC, becuase they're gonna obsolete in a year. My budget for building one system is $500.

Quote:

also, DO NOT GO CHEAP ON THE CASE, I learned the hard way. bought one for $30 with a 550 W power supply, that freaking case gave me homicidal urges. the freaking pci opening didn't fit all the cards. I had to get a plier to "loosen it up", it had a cheap ass locking mechanism for said pci. I had to cut one of the mounts on my vid card because it got in the way of the lock. motherboard mount was freaking soft that it kept bending when trying to secure that mobo to it, finally got pissed and got me a (i think overpriced) antec case, now that was solid!!!! All the screws and cards fit nice and snug.
I go for the cheap case all the time, and I never have problem. I got one server case for $60, and I'm sill regret about it. Anyway, the average cost for my cases is $25-$30. Later, I build system for other people with smaller case. They want to carry case more easily. Those cases are small and expensive, not to mention the heat problem. Once, the cpu fan was too large for the case. All I had to do was to return it and got smaller one.

Lexander 2006-03-23 11:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by remase2
my price range is 150-250 and yeah i meant processors and i was checking out both motherboards and processors at newegg

Here are my recommendations:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811129150
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813130038

http://www.newegg.com/product/Produc...82E16819103603
+
http://www.newegg.com/product/Produc...82E16814102681

And here's some plenty of ram for very cheap, with very nice timings.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231047

RaistlinMajere 2006-03-24 12:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Icehellion
CPU: 64 bit dual core

also, DO NOT GO CHEAP ON THE CASE, I learned the hard way. bought one for $30 with a 550 W power supply

No need for 95% of people to bother with dual core. And I'd be MUCH more concerned about the fact that you actually used a power supply that came with a case than the case itself.

TougeSil80 2006-03-24 12:56

You can get a chepa case, just don't use the psu that came with it. I got my case for $19 A/R and it works fine, everything fits.

Lexander 2006-03-24 13:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaistlinMajere
No need for 95% of people to bother with dual core. And I'd be MUCH more concerned about the fact that you actually used a power supply that came with a case than the case itself.

So true ... I have a dualcore and I never see it go above 30% use on either of the cores. It goes up to 40ish on each core when quake 4 is on ... but that's the most stress my computer ever gets.

I could have waited a good 6 months to get this chip.

So what I got is:

1) high scores in pointless synthetic benchmarks
2) about twice the processing I'll ever need

I am running the x2 3800+ at 2.7, but I realized it's something I could have done with a single core at only half the price. I just don't need that second core.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TougeSil80
You can get a chepa case, just don't use the psu that came with it. I got my case for $19 A/R and it works fine, everything fits.

A dare devil I see. :D

Dudes. You don't have to spend big money to get a reliable psu. Your mobo, graphics or memery could fry if the psu doesn't supply steady power. It's like paying a bit more for warranty.

Shadowlord 2006-03-24 20:36

Quote:

i am thinking about building a computer, never done it and i would like to know what mother boards are better intel or amd.
Also what is a good price range to look for a motherboard.
It all depends on what you want in a computer. Are you looking for basic performance good enough for email and very light gaming or do you want a midrange or even high end computer?

As for which is better, Intel or AMD, that also depends on what you are doing.

For Single Core CPU's ONLY


If you are planning on doing alot of gaming then you will have better results with an AMD system. If you want to do audio/video encoding or other multimedia work you will have a better experience with an intel CPU (that includes hyperthreading)


For Dual Core CPU's ONLY

Its a bit different when dual core processers are concerned. For both gaming and encoding AMD based CPU's (Opteron and X2) are a better choice performance wise. They run cooler and take less time to achieve results almost all the time.

It would really help if you mentioned exactly what parts you want advice on as well as your price range for ENTIRE computer, not just 1 or 2 parts. For instance, depending on the money I could recommend a computer like this;

AMD Sempron 64 2800+ 800MHz HT Socket 754 Processor - Retail $74.00
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819104245

ASRock K8NF4G-SATA2 Micro ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail $58.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813157084

G.SKILL Value DDR Series 512MB 184-Pin DDR SDRAM System Memory – Retail $32.63
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231026

LG Black IDE 16X DVD±R DVD Burner Model GSA-4167B BK – OEM $37.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827136063

Leadtek Geforce 7300GS PX7300GS TDH 128MB Low Profile Video Card – Retail $64.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814122238

HITACHI Deskstar 7K80 80GB 3.5" SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive $50.00
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822145082

Antec LifeStyle SONATA II Piano Black Computer Case – Retail $94.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811129155


$413.59


Or for more money one like this;

AMD Athlon 64 3500+ 1GHz HT Socket 939 Processor – Retail $201.00
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819103603

DFI nF4 SLI Infinity Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 SLI ATX $107.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813136164

SAMSUNG SpinPoint P Series 250GB 3.5" SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive – OEM $84.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822152025

eVGA Geforce 7600GT 256-P2-N553-AX Video Card – Retail $189.00
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814130283

G.SKILL 1GB (2 x 512MB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM System Memory – Retail $63.25
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231030

Antec LifeStyle SONATA II Piano Black Computer Case – Retail $94.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811129155

LG Black IDE 16X DVD±R DVD Burner Model GSA-4167B BK $37.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827136063


$779.21


Both are complete computers but the second is drastically better. More information is needed from you before any complete recommendations can be made.

sophismata 2006-03-25 00:15

Building a computer is not something to be undertaken lightheartedly, especially if you're not sure what type of parts you'll ultimately need. AMD/Intel don't make motherboards, they make CPU's.

You'll be dealing with hundreds of dollars worth of equipment, and even a simple failure to discharge static can fry most of it.

That said, remember the following:

If you buy a chip by itself, you will need a heatsink and fan for it. Use thermal paste, not heatsink tape. Use good thermal paste. Don't use too much, you want as thin a layer as possible to conduct heat the most effectively.

Make sure your MB matches your chipset.

Use a decent PSU; one of the most common mistakes made by people (although not those building their own systems) is getting an underpowered PSU for their components.

If you want the system for gaming, don't bother with a dual core. Many games don't even take advantage of the dual chips.

If you want good chip efficiency, go with AMD. If you're not confident with chips and heat dispersement, go with Intel.

Under NO CIRCUMSTANCES build the computer near carpet, with wollen or cotton clothes, or anything else that is likely to cause static.

Use compressed air to clean components, or a lint-free cloth. Avoid tissues, and blowing on things.

Make sure your MB matches your chipset. This is worth repeating, believe me.

Don't have the computer or components plugged in while putting it together. Kinda obvious, but you'd be surprised.

Remember that not everything comes with the right (or enough of the right) cables - you want to make sure you'll have everything you need before you sit down to begin.

The MB does not affix directly to the case; their is a gap between the MB and the case for airflow.

Fans blow cool air onto the heatsinks, they don't blow hot air away from the heatsinks.

Shadowlord 2006-03-25 04:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by sophismata
The MB does not affix directly to the case; their is a gap between the MB and the case for airflow.

Fans blow cool air onto the heatsinks, they don't blow hot air away from the heatsinks.

While your right that the motherboard should not be attached directly to the case, that is more because the motherboard would short circuit if it were directly connected rather than heat dissipation. Also fans should be blowing AND sucking (excuse the sexual inuendo please) A properly constructed case should have fans pushing as much fresh air in as they are out.

The most common (and arguable best arrangment) for this is intake fans in the front blowing colder air in while fanse at the back/top/side sucking hot air out. Basically air should enter one side and exit out the other (usually front to back)

As for dual core not good for gaming, while its true that it wont necessarily help with games, it helps immeasurably with multitasking. I can run a virus scan, download with bittorrent, encode in h.264 all while playing FEAR without problems, something impossible on a single core setup. I cannot even begin to explain how beneficial Dual Core CPU's are, they arent just for servers/encoders they are for EVERYONE. IMO if you are spending $200+ on a new CPU you would be foolish to not pickup a dual core CPU.

Let me make on more defending statment before I move on. I have yet to be able to bring my dual core CPU to its knees ( a lowly 3800+) and I ran simultaneously:

Maya7.0 - Had an entire scene filled, 980k polygons
3DS Max - rendering short animation, 300 frames at 15 fps 640x480
Photoshop CS2 - 70MB image open saving as targa
Virus Scan - Complete Scan of hard drive
Burning a DVD - full dvd at 12x write
Azureus - 6 torrents @ over 500KB/s
UT 2004 server with 16 connections
Guild Wars - AFK @ Lions Arch
FEAR - playing the demo (no full version at the time)
I also had a bunch of other programs running but none of them especially demanding.

My CPU wasnt at its limit yet, what WAS at its limit was my Hard Drive and Memory, especially hard drive. I definitely reached its max I/O's and it was struggling. I was also using about 3.8 GB's of memory and almost 3GB of Page File.

If I were running a setup with hard drives that could do more I/O operations I am sure that that my gaming experience would have been more pleasant. In short more than 2 CPU's = t3h win

sophismata 2006-03-26 04:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowlord
While your right that the motherboard should not be attached directly to the case, that is more because the motherboard would short circuit if it were directly connected rather than heat dissipation.

Quite right, my mistake.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowlord
Also fans should be blowing AND sucking (excuse the sexual inuendo please) A properly constructed case should have fans pushing as much fresh air in as they are out.

Yes, but I was referring, specifically, to one-fan scenarios, like than fan over your CPU or GPU.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowlord
As for dual core not good for gaming, while its true that it wont necessarily help with games, it helps immeasurably with multitasking. I can run a virus scan, download with bittorrent, encode in h.264 all while playing FEAR without problems, something impossible on a single core setup. I cannot even begin to explain how beneficial Dual Core CPU's are, they arent just for servers/encoders they are for EVERYONE. IMO if you are spending $200+ on a new CPU you would be foolish to not pickup a dual core CPU.

In general, yes, but for 'hard-core' gaming a high-end CPU is better, because you can eek that much more performance from it. Most games don't take advantage of dual-core properly... yet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowlord
Let me make on more defending statment before I move on. I have yet to be able to bring my dual core CPU to its knees ( a lowly 3800+) and I ran simultaneously:

Maya7.0 - Had an entire scene filled, 980k polygons
3DS Max - rendering short animation, 300 frames at 15 fps 640x480
Photoshop CS2 - 70MB image open saving as targa
Virus Scan - Complete Scan of hard drive
Burning a DVD - full dvd at 12x write
Azureus - 6 torrents @ over 500KB/s
UT 2004 server with 16 connections
Guild Wars - AFK @ Lions Arch
FEAR - playing the demo (no full version at the time)
I also had a bunch of other programs running but none of them especially demanding.


That's impressive, and worrying. My MBP's got 40% on both cores from the kernal alone.

Anyway, to put my point simply, if a game or app only uses the one core, it's better to have a single 3.2 GHz core than two 2.0 GHz cores. Of course, this should change shortly.

Lexander 2006-03-27 14:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by sophismata
Anyway, to put my point simply, if a game or app only uses the one core, it's better to have a single 3.2 GHz core than two 2.0 GHz cores. Of course, this should change shortly.

Good luck finiding any AMD clocked at 3.2 stock.

Unless you ment an Intel chip, which at 3.2 would certainly get outperformed by a 2.0 dualcore even on 1 core (in game play).

Ending 2006-03-27 17:11

And remember: if you screw up, the whole thing will go like KABLOOIE -straight to face. :naughty:

TheFluff 2006-03-27 18:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lexander
So true ... I have a dualcore and I never see it go above 30% use on either of the cores. It goes up to 40ish on each core when quake 4 is on ... but that's the most stress my computer ever gets.

I could have waited a good 6 months to get this chip.

So what I got is:

1) high scores in pointless synthetic benchmarks
2) about twice the processing I'll ever need

I am running the x2 3800+ at 2.7, but I realized it's something I could have done with a single core at only half the price. I just don't need that second core.

VIDEO ENCODING.
I have the same processor as you have, but not OC'ed (yet). Gaming usually uses 100% of one core (not that I game often...). Encoding stuff, however... x264 uses 70-90% total with 2 threads (more doesn't raise the CPU usage or improve performance). Lossless to XviD uses 100% of one core plus one or a few extra on the other, which means you can do two at a time, or run one encode and do something else CPU-intensive (like encoding audio or something) at the same time. Avisynth script with filtering -> XviD can easily go past 70% total usage, as well.

Dual-core isn't for everyone though - for most people, the CPU waits for the human MUCH, MUCH more than the human waits for the CPU, and even more so with dual-core. However, if you're someone who likes to do CPU-intensive stuff and actually use the computer in the meantime, dual-core is for you.


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