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Malyn 2006-08-11 21:32

Spare Parts
 
One question about the spare parts. Is it that easy to repair a MS / Gundam ?

In SEED, I don't remember which Ep it was, but I remember Duel's right arm being destroyed by Strike's beam (right after it changed its pack from Aile to Launcher). Then a few Eps after Duel has a brain new arm.

The problem is, it was the first time ZAFT see this kind of technology and yet they managed to replace the broken one quite rapidly. It was supposed to be the newest technology (with the phase shift armor) after all. I don't remember seing ZAFT taking any spare parts from Heliopolis, so it would mean that Earth technology, be it the latest one, can easily be duplicated.

And in SEED Astray v03, we see a fight between Gai and Miguel (both in their custumed Ginn) and Miguel's MS getting damaged. It is said that it took place a few months before SEED starts, so they could have repaired it and Miguel could have used it against Kira. But where was it? No spare parts?

*EDIT* It is the same Chaos and it's two funnels (don't know if it is the right name) being destroyed by Athrun and then replaced once on Earth

Vallen Chaos Valiant 2006-08-11 22:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malyn
One question about the spare parts. Is it that easy to repair a MS / Gundam ?

In SEED, I don't remember which Ep it was, but I remember Duel's right arm being destroyed by Strike's beam (right after it changed its pack from Aile to Launcher). Then a few Eps after Duel has a brain new arm.

The problem is, it was the first time ZAFT see this kind of technology and yet they managed to replace the broken one quite rapidly. It was supposed to be the newest technology (with the phase shift armor) after all. I don't remember seing ZAFT taking any spare parts from Heliopolis, so it would mean that Earth technology, be it the latest one, can easily be duplicated.

And in SEED Astray v03, we see a fight between Gai and Miguel (both in their custumed Ginn) and Miguel's MS getting damaged. It is said that it took place a few months before SEED starts, so they could have repaired it and Miguel could have used it against Kira. But where was it? No spare parts?

*EDIT* It is the same Chaos and it's two funnels (don't know if it is the right name) being destroyed by Athrun and then replaced once on Earth

Unfortunately, the only time in CE they bothered to offer explanations for such incidences was for Strike Gundam. At the start of GS, Archangel had on-board enough spare parts for Strike Gundam to be able to literally build two extra Strikes out of them. (And they did, hence the second Strike as well as Rouge)

I was also reminded of the beginning of Zeta Gundam, when the protagonists stole three Gundam MkIIs, but they only fielded one in battle because the other two was needed as a source of spare parts.

If you want to be kind, I guess you can claim technology to duplicate items improved during GSD?

More likely though, The woman in Logos who helped Gilbert in planning the Armoury 1 Gundam jack had also supplied the spare parts to Blue Cosmos.

Tak 2006-08-11 22:11

To put it simply, no, I don't think it was technically difficult for ZAFT TO repair Duel's right arm. After all, it was ZAFT that first utilized mobile suits for war. If anything, Earth stole MS technologies from ZAFT.

Since they were in war, we can presume that technologies can easily be learned, replicated and reverse-engineered.

And just a note, the Duel was supposed to be a prototype. The first mobile suit ever produced by Earth.

Funnels were not unusual. Federation mobile armos usually had them equipped.

- Tak

shaolo 2006-08-11 22:14

Well I think that all the CE mses are made up by the same metal which make it easy to repair or to make mses unlike the other series.

Malyn 2006-08-11 22:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by shaolo
Well I think that all the CE mses are made up by the same metal which make it easy to repair or to make mses unlike the other series.

sure but it needs time to design the spare part and to produced it, cos I don't think pieces from a Ginn can fit in a Gundam. then input in it the phase shift armor in it.

R4][N_M4l{3R 2006-08-11 22:42

IIRC in the Dub, when Kira notices that the Duel has been repaired, he also says it has been "upgraded". Can't really reason with that one, seems like a plot hole.

Vallen Chaos Valiant 2006-08-11 23:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malyn
sure but it needs time to design the spare part and to produced it, cos I don't think pieces from a Ginn can fit in a Gundam. then input in it the phase shift armor in it.

It is my own (unprovable) pet theory that Coordinators had their apparent physical, mental, and technological superiority scaled back over time because Sunrise eventually decided to make the Coordinators and Naturals different in name only. (Either to make story-telling easier or to make it believable that Orb could make better stuff than ZAFT in the end.)

Thus, it was believable that ZAFT could reverse engineer Duel Gundam in a short period of time, because they were still "1337" then, so to speak. The capabilities of the original coordinator cast were thus far above the coordinators who were introduced later in the story.

...I just realised that I could treat coordinators like Vampires of popular media in my theory.:D

Athrun and Kira would be the "ancient ones", the original day-walkers.

While the grunt coordinators getting blown up as of late would be the pathetic "Buffy vampires", or those in "Blade". They look good in sunglasses and carry guns, but are a far-cry from the ancients.

...As a friend pointed out, I can't prove any of this. I can't prove Coordinators were suppose to have physical advantages over most Naturals, and that's why they were able to fight against the whole world with only the population the size of South Korea. And I can't prove Fukuda changed his mind later on and make the differences purely cosmetic.

All I can say, is if Coordinators were in fact more resourceful back in the days of early CE, it could explain how soon Duel got repaired with no easy access to spare parts.

X207 2006-08-12 08:29

coordinators dont suck ppls blood. i see the coordinators simply as smart ppl who hav been genetically altered at birth, if any comparioson could be made it could be like the smart humans ie davinci, einstein etc

Vallen Chaos Valiant 2006-08-12 09:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by X207
coordinators dont suck ppls blood. i see the coordinators simply as smart ppl who hav been genetically altered at birth, if any comparioson could be made it could be like the smart humans ie davinci, einstein etc

You are missing my point.
I am not comparing coordinators to naturals. I am comparing coordinators at the start of GS to the coordinators in GSD and beyond.

It is my personal opinion (feel free to disagree) that coordinators written into the story later on in the CE saga, like most in Destiny, had been downgraded from what the coordinators were suppose to be when the whole story started.

I use vampires as a comparison, because there is a similar type of "downgrading" that happens for them in movies and TV shows.

Traditionally in the past, all vampires in movies are so lethal, even the slaying of a single one would have taken an entire movie/TV season to accomplish.

But as popular media changed, there is a tendency to tell tales of legions of weaker vampires instead of a lone, near-indestructible Count in a derelict castle.
Sure, there is always a boss at the end. But overall the average modern vampire race is portrayed as weak and easy to kill for anyone who knows how.

It is easier story-wise to portray small groups of heroes wiping out a small army of domb vampires who act like humans, than to believably tell a story whereby the heroes were able to out-smart and overpower a scant few intelligent and centuries-old "Originals".

That's why I make comparisons between vampires and coordinators; it's my personal opinion that they were both nerfed in power over time to make story-writing easier.

(As for why Athrun, Lacus and Kira are so good? That's because you can't believably scaling them back from the heights they were at before, no more than believing that Dracula could be killed permanently just because someone cut his head off.)

Once again, I know I can't prove any of this. So feel free to make fun of them.

Skyfall 2006-08-12 13:37

So true VCV, the coordinators have been scaled down, save for the Athrun & Kira.

In GS when Kira is brought in after the 'reentry' in Strike, when AA first went to Earh, the doctor even tels the gang that a normal human would not surivive this, but Kira was more or less ok, the doctor even told that a coordinators body functions quite differentially.

Later Kazui(or whatever his name was ) questions wether the Earth has a chance against people like these. In Azraels flashbacks we see him and about 4 or so boys trying to beat up a coordinator, but they cant even lay a finger on him. We see coordinator children yawning while some proffesors explain some stuff. Andy can tell by simply looking at the way Strike is being piloted that its not a Natural in there.


But in the end of GSD it really seemed that it means nothing to be a coordinator, unless you are Athrun / Kira. The vampire thing is a perfect analogy :)

RX-78GP04G Gerbera 2006-08-12 15:29

reply
 
In terms of UC eras, given the time and supplies and/or the type of MS being repaired, it can vary from "easy" to "difficult".

Like things like the Methuss were deemed (by MAHQ) "easy to repair" given its simplistic frame and transformation and such. Obviously, things earlier than like the severely damaged Zephranthys must've taken some time to repair, even with the resources of Anaheim Electronics, given how trashed it was. Things like GM and Zaku I/II, Rick Dom and such (may vary on the type) were probably easy to repair and maintain as well.

But I would guess that things like the, at the time (beginning of ZZ) because of supplies and such, Zeta and Double Zeta must've been pretty difficult in repairing at first. (hence, why they had to use a Zaku II head for Zeta XD). God, it must be hell to be able to maintain something like the giant MS like the Psyco Gundam, Psyco Gundam Mark II, Quin Mantha and also Mobile Armors as well.

In terms of CE...who knows...

Anh_Minh 2006-08-12 15:50

Nice theory, VCV.

Explanation: at the beginning of GS, the coordinators were hanging on for dear life. They were desperate, and it inspired them to feats of technology and valor. (And, in Lacus' case, entertainment.) Each one of them not only fought like twenty, they also thought and worked like twenty.

And then they almost obliterated the Naturals. They've grown complacent. "What, the Naturals are at it again? OK, I'll try to squeeze some "kicking their butts" time in between my next golf games..."

cloudedge 2006-08-12 16:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh
Nice theory, VCV.

Explanation: at the beginning of GS, the coordinators were hanging on for dear life. They were desperate, and it inspired them to feats of technology and valor. (And, in Lacus' case, entertainment.) Each one of them not only fought like twenty, they also thought and worked like twenty.

And then they almost obliterated the Naturals. They've grown complacent. "What, the Naturals are at it again? OK, I'll try to squeeze some "kicking their butts" time in between my next golf games..."

*nod nod* agree in this theory.
Remember the explaination that Kira offered to Cagalli when Cagalli ask him about Coordinators.
He basically said coordinator's were no different from Naturals, that sure they had greater "potential" but it still requires hard work to acquire those skill. I guess he was also trying to imply that he didn't just fight well because he was a coordinator, but that he had to work hard on Strike, tweaking its OS to its finest. A good contrast between Kira and Yzak was given in the Desert Arc, where Kira could rewrite his OS to adjust to the sand, while Yzak and Dearka just felt frustrated. (And possibly never think of rewriting the OS, because they're never as intimiate with their Gundam (or its OS), as Kira was... >.> that sounded wrong..)

By the same logic, in the beginning of GS, Coordinator was trying to strive as a race, to break free from the Natural... they're the underdog, so to speak... And so they work themselves harder to overthrow the Natural...

The second generation came at a more "peaceful" time where ZAFT and PLANTs are already independent. Hence they don't have to strive as hard.

All of us has the "potential" to become doctor/laywer/engineer... but not all of us will have the will or desire to advance so far... Coordinator are people with higher potential, but that doesn't automatically make them superior (at least intectually), unless they're willing to put in the effort to train.

Skyfall 2006-08-12 17:25

Cloudedge, that actually might be the case, but this does not aply to Kira - he is the ultimate coordinator, and he is automaticaly at the maximum potential of anything he does, as stated by Rau. Athrun had worked hard to to become as good as he is, Kira gets in to a MS and is automaticaly as good as him - both are at the top, however it takes 0 effort from Kira to get there.

This might be the case with rest of the coordinators, that they have to try hard to be better, but i dont know.. i think soldiers of ZAFt would put quite an effort in to winning , ne ? :heh:

cloudedge 2006-08-12 17:45

No, you said it yourself, Kira has the maximum potential... but no matter how much potential if you don't explore it, it's unless.

Much like our brain, which we only use no more than 10%... so logic dictates that all of us could potentially be 10x better than what we are (intellectually)

Kira had the best potential of many things, but unless he's willing to initiate an effort to train, he is no different from a natural. (his effort may be less than what other's has to put)

And in fact, if you look at Kira's character, he really doesn't want to be all that different from natural... he's really reluctant to exercise those potential that he had unless he absolutely necessary has to... (unlike the first coordinator Glen? I forgot his name.. who seems to strive to excel at everything).

srb 2006-08-12 18:17

They had all the Data for Duel by then, and had probably analyzed the frame and the phase shift technology. Ordering a spare arm together with the Duel-designed Assault Shroud probably wasn't a big deal. If they actually received supplies, that is, I don't remember if they do or if the AS was conjured out of the surrounding vacuum.

Quote:

Much like our brain, which we only use no more than 10%... so logic dictates that all of us could potentially be 10x better than what we are (intellectually)
Urban legend.


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