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-   -   Code Geass - Spoilers & Speculation (old) (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=39115)

xris 2006-11-21 19:29

Code Geass - Spoilers & Speculation (old)
 
The purpose of this thread is to allow free discussion of theories and speculation of the Code Geass anime series, but be warned since it may contain unmarked spoilers. Having a central location may help focus the discussion instead of spreading speculation over the various episode discussion threads.

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EragonJeriel 2006-11-21 21:42

AH so this thread was created, yes. Let me have the honor of having the first reply..so uhh...
Let me Speculate a scene from the last episode.....
The war has ended, Japan is free.
Suzaku and euph( kira and lacus)and nanaly(sight recovered) are standing on a hill facing the sea in front of a tombstone. On the tombstone .. Lelouch
So he dies in his quest to pwn britainnia, and the others live happily ever after...
*Wait, is that a scene from gsd?*
I know. totally random huh. But it would proably be something like this, based on people guess that lelouch wont win which i agree on. Read it more over in the morality thread.

Li Jianliang 2006-11-21 22:45

...
 
I see three possible endings for Code Geass:

Britannia is destroyed, Lelouch is a tragic hero, Suzaku and/or Nanaly dies.

Britannia is destroyed, Lelouch dies, Suzaku and/or Nanaly lives.

Britannia peacefully withdraws from Japan, everyone lives.

aardvark 2006-11-21 22:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Li Jianliang (Post 746692)
I see three possible endings for Code Geass:

Britannia is destroyed, Lelouch is a tragic hero, Suzaku and/or Nanaly dies.

Britannia is destroyed, Lelouch dies, Suzaku and/or Nanaly lives.

Britannia peacefully withdraws from Japan, everyone lives.

I'd bet more on a co-existant Brittania/Japan.

Sonhex 2006-11-22 06:54

Thanks to xris for creating the thread. I originally posted this theory in Generic Discussion:

After ep 6 we have more evidence that the Emperor has his powerbase on the planet Jupiter. WTF, I hear you cry. Well take a look...

Spoiler for OP:


In ep 6 we actually see the Emperor there:

Spoiler for ep6:


There's also evidence from ep 1 that the power of Geass maybe linked to Jupiter:

Spoiler for ep1:


So my theory is that the power behind Britannia, possessed by the Emperor himself is the true power of C.C's people, linked to this mysterious location on Jupiter. This power may well have been stolen from C.C's people and perhaps this is why C.C may be helping Lelouch to tackle Britannia. However C.C being the least trustworthy character in the show, probably has much more involvement than that.

P.S I think Tanaguchi must have a thing for Jupiter, as it also features in Planetes predominantly.

Ragnarok
The Emperor also speaks of 'Union of Ragnarok' in ep 1. Ragnarok in Norse mythology is the 'Doom of the Gods' (Gotterdammerung) in which the gods are overthrown by aggressors lead by Loki. Loki is a trickster, a master of disguise and deception.

In Code Geass, the Emperor could be Odin, the father of the Gods. Valhalla (Odin's Hall of the Dead) could be Jupiter. With Balder (Odin's second son) being Clovis. The Emperor may have been speaking to Clovis on Jupiter in ep 6. Valhalla is the resting place of fallen warriors. Also in Norse legend Loki kills Balder by use of trickery.

Lelouch = Loki?

Shiroth 2006-11-22 07:45

I was starting to link Jupiter to the Geass power thanks to episode 06, though you Sonhex have made everything much more clear in my head. I wouldn't be shocked at all that everything you're saying is right - or pretty close to it.

evil|plushie 2006-11-22 07:46

I thought Ragnarok wasn't so much the death of the gods but the renewal of the world. This is what I vaguely remember of the myth, Loki leads the giants on the gods. Thor and Odin die but one of Odin's sons (name starts with a V, can't remember which one') kills the wolf, Fenrir, that killed Odin and then becomes the new king of the gods and a new world is born from the ashes of the old. Although before that, there's lot of death, chaos and mayhem.

So yeah, Lelouch may be Loki or he may be the son that will become the new king and lead the world into prosperity.

EragonJeriel 2006-11-22 08:05

Is the king in ep 1 actually the real king? If i turned the king of brit around the would probably look like that. But then why would lelouch see him during the contract..hmm...
C.C is probably the hottest among her race i bet, would she turn out to be a princess?

Vallen Chaos Valiant 2006-11-22 08:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by evil|plushie (Post 746890)
So yeah, Lelouch may be Loki or he may be the son that will become the new king and lead the world into prosperity.

Somehow, I couldn't link the name "Lelouch" with "prosperity".

Look at it this way; he is his father's son, and I have trouble believing Lulu could break free of that.

Sonhex 2006-11-22 08:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by evil|plushie (Post 746890)
I thought Ragnarok wasn't so much the death of the gods but the renewal of the world. This is what I vaguely remember of the myth, Loki leads the giants on the gods. Thor and Odin die but one of Odin's sons (name starts with a V, can't remember which one') kills the wolf, Fenrir, that killed Odin and then becomes the new king of the gods and a new world is born from the ashes of the old. Although before that, there's lot of death, chaos and mayhem...

Vidar you're thinking of, yeah he avenged Odin's death by killing Fenrir. The world was reborn after Ragnarok, some gods survived most were slain, Vidar was one of the rulers after the rebirth. Lelouch doesn't really fit this role. Another of the Emperor's sons, yet to be introduced maybe...

Quote:

Originally Posted by EragonJeriel (Post 746898)
Is the king in ep 1 actually the real king? If i turned the king of brit around the would probably look like that. But then why would lelouch see him during the contract..hmm...

He's the Emperor of Britannia. I think his appearance in that scene in ep 1 was from C.C's perspective rather than Lelouch's. Otherwise Lelouch would have seen Jupiter and we have no evidence he's ever been in space.

Deathkillz 2006-11-22 12:20

oh wow nice analysis Sonhex :) but its still mind boggling to think that there is a technology thats so advance that it can take you to jupiter...
so C.C is a different race (well duh) but from the mass of people with the "V" mark on their bodies it seems that C.C could be from an advanced alien race...
how did the Emperor get there? where has all the others gone? maybe there was a war where the Emperor destroyed all of C.C's people besides her?
or could it be that the Emperor is one of their kind and has come to take over earth as well? (that is an unlikely theory tho)

Renegade334 2006-11-22 16:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonhex
Vidar you're thinking of, yeah he avenged Odin's death by killing Fenrir. The world was reborn after Ragnarok, some gods survived most were slain, Vidar was one of the rulers after the rebirth. Lelouch doesn't really fit this role. Another of the Emperor's sons, yet to be introduced maybe...

Possibly but beware of comparisons with European mythology and lore - Japanese often have a quick propensity to use it to their convenience without giving it much further thought (reminisces an Evangelion staff member's interview in which the said person stated that they often used the Christian cross "because it looked cool") - there was already a debate about whether there were likenesses with Lelouch and Suzaku and the Knights of the Round Table and I'm not sure Taniguchi has gone as far as build his series entirely around these separate stories.

For me, the battle of Ragnarok is simply an allusion to a mighty battle, a mother of all wars (AKA the Twilight of the Gods - Ragnarok, indeed) coming up soon...possibly as a result of the Emperor's egging on his successors and subjects to fight for 'progress' and whatnot. A final showdown in which either way things would change drastically.

Quote:

so C.C is a different race (well duh) but from the mass of people with the "V" mark on their bodies it seems that C.C could be from an advanced alien race...
Race, maybe. Species? I dunno but I think not. In one of the US Newtype scans, the Power of Geass was specifically said to be 'linked to the very existence of humankind'.

Perhaps C.C.'s people were born on Earth and emigrated to Jupiter (perhaps leaving some of them who eventually gave birth to the first, non Geass-capable human beings) but right now there's not much to confirm or deny this - but at any rate, this whole lost civilization thing is giving off people-of-Atlantis-with-tech-mixed-with-magic vibes.

Quote:

how did the Emperor get there? where has all the others gone? maybe there was a war where the Emperor destroyed all of C.C's people besides her?
or could it be that the Emperor is one of their kind and has come to take over earth as well? (that is an unlikely theory tho)
C.C. was seen in a picture featuring an old WWI-era Mark I tank - which means that people like here were at least there in 1914-1918, provided that the world's timeline is roughly similar to that of the real world and technological progress kept going at the same pace as ours (before, of course, the arrival of the Knightmare Frames and whatnot...but anyway, war is widely known for being an accelerator for science, knowledge and technology).

So I guess she got caught by Britannia and the Emperor realized the gold mine he was holding between his hands. I suppose he then found a way to implement the knowledge gained from that strange race and use it to take control of C.C.'s people - unless they've gone extinct or they are in hiding and the Emperor merely used what they left behind). At any rate, he's using them for his own devices, no doubt about this.

Sonhex 2006-11-23 07:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renegade334 (Post 747164)
...
For me, the battle of Ragnarok is simply an allusion to a mighty battle, a mother of all wars (AKA the Twilight of the Gods - Ragnarok, indeed) coming up soon...possibly as a result of the Emperor's egging on his successors and subjects to fight for 'progress' and whatnot. A final showdown in which either way things would change drastically...

I agree, I think Taniguchi et al are just taking various mythological ideas (Norse, Arthurian, Celtic) and mixing them around. I mention Celtic because Geass is possibly based on the concept of geas, which is a form of taboo or curse bound by penalty in Irish mythology.

In regards to the possible technology the Emperor may have gained from C.C's people, the screenshot I posted (quick link) shows a conspicuous pink crystal and the Lancelot's experimental core has a nice pink crystal powering it. Lloyd is clearly a part of a much wider experiment of which Cornelia is privvy too, so I'm wondering if it involves the use of these crystals as a power source.

One thing that does concern me is that all these clues about Jupiter, alien races and mysterious powers may derail the taught and engrossing 'real world' political and moral conflicts already established. If this all ends up in a huge space battle with Knighmare Frames engaging in the clouds of Jupiter it may seem a bit overblown by comparison to the tense atmosphere of these early episodes...

quina 2006-11-25 16:07

Something just popped up in my mind.

Time is relative, does time in Jupiter flows slower than on Earth? Could that be the reason why CC didn't grow old? She might have return to Jupiter (captured).

Emperor doesn't seems he have aged a single day since 7 years ago as well... that might very be because he is staying on Jupiter.

Anyway the thought I mentioned was just random. A more likely theory is that CC is some random race from Jupiter, emperor wants to "borrow" their power, so he captured them. etc.

myopius 2006-11-25 17:12

Time doesn't flow slower on Jupiter, though they probably have longer days than us (I think... it's bigger so it takes more time for it to rotate, right? or does it rotate faster because it's bigger?) and that could influence the biology of any inhabitants.

Sonhex, that's a fascinating connection you've found. Anyway, I agree with most of what people have speculated, about how the Geass and perhaps other technology is derived from C.C's civilization. I don't see it becoming the "real" plot later in the series, however; it's just a feature which complicates the plot as it stands, from my perspective. Of course, it's intriguing.

I'm not sure what to think of how much suffering and "personal" death this series is capable of. Lelouch killed Clovis, directly and personally. But, it wasn't shown. And realistically, there were many more casualties in certain parts than we were shown, from what I sense I can recall. It's clear the stakes are life and death as far as the plot is concerned, but what they're able to show can be very important in respect to that, too; for instance, if they're hesitant to show deaths, but they don't feel a main character's death should be shown indirectly, then perhaps they would be hesitant to kill off Lelouch. Of course it's not that simple. But, what with the chase in episode 6, it's still unclear just how serious this series will become, to me.

I've never seen GS or GSD (except the first 2 episodes of GSD since people kept comparing it to this show, but I wasn't very interested, probably in most part because it seemed like I should have watched GS to know what was taking place) but I'm not sure that this series carries the same themes (I assume the themes in those show is that unassailable*differences will result in tragedies between friends).

*This may not be the correct word, I looked it up to verify the definition but I'm still shaky about using it.

monstratboy 2006-11-26 16:16

Speculation. Might the voice C-2 speaks to in episode 7 and 8 be ...... C-1??

Renegade334 2006-11-26 16:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by monstratboy (Post 750850)
Speculation. Might the voice C-2 speaks to in episode 7 and 8 be ...... C-1??

C2 = C^2 = C.C. (her official name in the credits)
Also, in Evangelion, there's a bomb called the N2 - but it doesn't mean 'Bomb Model Number 2'. In fact, 'N2' stands for 'N^2' and 'non-nuclear'. Thus, N.N.
It's the same thing here. C.C. = 'C2' or should I say, 'C-square'.
...
Anyway, there are two possibilities for C.C.'s invisible interlocutor...
-- 1°) someone from her civilization.
Spoiler for shadowy character:

monstratboy 2006-11-26 18:49

Quote:

C2 = C^2 = C.C. (her official name in the credits)
Also, in Evangelion, there's a bomb called the N2 - but it doesn't mean 'Bomb Model Number 2'. In fact, 'N2' stands for 'N^2' and 'non-nuclear'. Thus, N.N.
It's the same thing here. C.C. = 'C2' or should I say, 'C-square'.
So are you saying its not possible that the one speaking to C.C. is a duplicate of C.C. named C.? And N2 amd C.C. don't seem the same 2 me.

W-General 2006-11-26 19:28

Some scraps of Newtype spoilers I read
Spoiler:

Renegade334 2006-11-27 02:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by monstratboy (Post 750975)
So are you saying its not possible that the one speaking to C.C. is a duplicate of C.C. named C.? And N2 amd C.C. don't seem the same 2 me.

You completely missed the reasoning here. -_-
N.N. = N^2 = N2
C.C. = C^2 = C2

Besides, for all we might know, 'C.C.' might be the initials of a name she (obviously) doesn't want to disclose. Heck, she was free a long time ago before she got captured by Britannia, as that flashback to Lelouch and Suzaku's past, as well as that picture with a WWI tank in the background, can prove. Which means that she might have had a normal life and a name of her own, instead of a moniker thought up by Britannia - like a number tag, etc.
'C2' is just the way you pronounce the name 'C.C.' Just watch the credits. It's all there.
Quote:

Originally Posted by W-General
Kallen will get a new Knightmare Frame. It'll be red.

It's the
Spoiler:
I dunno how Zero is going to get it or who created it, but I at the very least expect it to be on par with Lancelot (even if it'd lack that mysterious crystal power plant linked with C.C.'s civilization), at least for the healthy sake of downgrading that overpowered Gary Sue of a mech.


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