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NoSanninWa 2006-12-06 02:22

Code Geass World History & Geography Speculation
 
Code Geass takes place in a world which is notably different from our own. Of most obvious note, in this world North America is home to the Holy Empire of Britannia. In a world with so many geopolitical differences we wonder about the background to this story.

This thread is a place to share speculation on how the world political situation has reached this point. We can speculate about such questions as how did the royal family seize power and what countries are still free from the empire. It is not the plot or characters which concern us in this thread, such things can be discussed elsewhere. Here we need to discuss the background to that story.


People who have information exclusively from the manga should use spoiler tags to preserve the innocence of their fellow members from being despoiled. Here is how you use a spoiler tag:

[spoiler=Manga]
The entire world is actually inside the matrix and the Emperor is actually an Agent.
[/spoiler]


Will create this:
Spoiler for Manga:



To start this discussion, I'd like to mention some of my own hypotheses on how this world could have diverged from our own. I've thought that this might not be our future. It might instead be an alternate history: a world with a different past from our own. Perhaps in the past of this world the American Revolution failed. As a result America stayed part of Great Britain and evolved into the Holy Britannia Empire.

Another thought of possible alternate history is based on the name of the Empire. Britannia is the name used for Great Britain by the Roman Empire. It is possible that after the fall of the Roman Empire, Britannia maintained its civilization and became the core of a new empire that carried on the traditions of the old Roman Empire. Thus the Holy Britannia Empire succeeded the Holy Roman Empire.

Cal-Reflector 2006-12-06 02:36

Others have mentioned in other threads useful speculation pertinent to the subject at hand; perhaps they might repost some of them here.

What is the current extent of the empire? Is it the undisputed world leader? Does there exist other factions/allieances that stand as credible counterweights to Brittania's dominance?

The OP animation shows us that at the very least, outside of the British Isles (the situation on the European mainland is unknown), all of the Americas, from Alaska to Canda to what we call the United States down through Central America, and possibly/probably South America, is part of the British Empire.

Whether the Americas are colonies (like Japan) or an integral part of Brittania (what would've happened in leu of the American Revolution) is up for debate.

I am not sure where Brittania's capital is.

ordnance11 2006-12-06 02:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cal-Reflector (Post 759982)
Others have mentioned in other threads useful speculation pertinent to the subject at hand; perhaps they might repost some of them here.

What is the current extent of the empire? Is it the undisputed world leader? Does there exist other factions/allieances that stand as credible counterweights to Brittania's dominance?

The OP animation shows us that at the very least, outside of the British Isles (the situation on the European mainland is unknown), all of the Americas, from Alaska to Canda to what we call the United States down through Central America, and possibly/probably South America, is part of the British Empire.

Whether the Americas are colonies (like Japan) or an integral part of Brittania (what would've happened in leu of the American Revolution) is up for debate.

I am not sure where Brittania's capital is.

Well, based on the map shown when Britannia invaded Japan, they definitely hold the North American continent and Hawaii. Australia and New Zealand and possibly South Africa and India. The British Empire of this world at it's height plus, North America. The turning point would had been if the American War of Independence failed.

Now what I want to know is if the Plantagenet line survived to this present day. 1000 years under a single family. Given that the Plantagenet line were prone to fighting each other as well as against foreign enemies, I can well believe why the current Emperor is this way.

JayF 2006-12-06 03:25

Except for an Empire that carries the British namesake they don't act British. Their uniform styles are more Prussian while their more direct and brutal rule reflects (surprise!) the colonial styles of Japan and the Dutch( just ask Indonesia) The British had a tendency to employ large number of native colonial troops while nuturing a local elite to rule by proxy thus minmizing their own presence which they learned had an effect of riling up the natives so to speak.

We can also assume that unlike RL, no world sweeping ideology like commuism or a revivial of religions with militaristic pasts and traditions (the faith is front and centre of the military conquest).which would have greatly destablised an empire with mulitple ethnicities and faiths. This of course assumes that the Empire exapansion is not relatively recent (Two or three generations) and did not have a succession crisis by remote centres of military strength. (Mongol Empire, unparralled militarily but lacked central control to run the conqured lands and maintain central political unity.)

Lastly, we can assume that there is no current exisiental or substantial military threat to Britannia unlike say France and the other European powers were to Britan since we do not see any signs or mention of a frontier. (Rome had to deal with the Persians to the east, while Germania formed a deathtrap due to the Goths.)

Li Jianliang 2006-12-06 04:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cal-Reflector (Post 759982)
What is the current extent of the empire? Is it the undisputed world leader? Does there exist other factions/allieances that stand as credible counterweights to Brittania's dominance?

Britannia is in control of approximately 1/3 of the world. It also appears from the map that the 'Chinese Federation' the Emperor mentioned has control over most of the eastern Asia continent, if not the whole thing.

The Big Daddy emperor of Britannia is currently the 98th emperor, or so I've read.

Cal-Reflector 2006-12-06 04:55

If the 1/3 Land mass statement is true, what does that leave outside of Brittania rule?

East, South East, and Central Asia.
Africa.
Western and Eastern Europe...?
Russia + Mongolia.
Antarctica.
North Pole.
Greeland.

Quite a bit huh.

I think Brittania may have at least a portion of the middle east, as Cornelia was seen putting down a rebellion there.

katsumi 2006-12-06 07:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoSanninWa (Post 759974)

Another thought of possible alternate history is based on the name of the Empire. Britannia is the name used for Great Britain by the Roman Empire. It is possible that after the fall of the Roman Empire, Britannia maintained its civilization and became the core of a new empire that carried on the traditions of the old Roman Empire. Thus the Holy Britannia Empire succeeded the Holy Roman Empire.

I don't think this possibility would work out. At times of the Roman Empire there wasn't yet a thinking of "Britannians" as a nation (the idea of "nation" is still young), but rather different people (tribes?), one of them Britons. It would make more sense if the history of the CG world would have been the same as ours up until the American Revolution - seemingly failing in the CG world.
Perhaps history even was slightly the same throughout the 19th century, as it was the century were the Britains gathered their biggest strength and build up the British Empire to its greatest extend.

My speculation is that World War I & II didn't happen, or at least not in the way they happened in our world. If the Empereror hadn't mentioned the European States and, if I remember the subs correctly, the weakness of the European Union, I would have guessed there were no WW I and II at all.

Oh boy, that's confusing to write "our world" :p

Quote:

Originally Posted by ordnance11 (Post 759992)
Well, based on the map shown when Britannia invaded Japan, they definitely hold the North American continent and Hawaii. Australia and New Zealand and possibly South Africa and India. The British Empire of this world at it's height plus, North America. The turning point would had been if the American War of Independence failed.

Now what I want to know is if the Plantagenet line survived to this present day. 1000 years under a single family. Given that the Plantagenet line were prone to fighting each other as well as against foreign enemies, I can well believe why the current Emperor is this way.

If you take the American War of Independence as turning point for the CG world, there's no way the Empereror's line could still be the Plantagenet line. As far as I know the legitimate Plantagenet line became extinct by the 16th century during the reign of the Tudors. Although I'm not too sure about it, I'll have to check my history books.
And I guess a family prone to fighting each other wouldn't survive 1000 years, they'll get themselves extinct pretty fast :hmm:

JayF 2006-12-06 08:09

98 emperors? Either the line has been ruling for close to a thousand years now or the go through their soverigns like a hentai fanboy does tissues.

Sonhex 2006-12-06 08:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by ordnance11 (Post 759992)
...
Now what I want to know is if the Plantagenet line survived to this present day. 1000 years under a single family. Given that the Plantagenet line were prone to fighting each other as well as against foreign enemies, I can well believe why the current Emperor is this way.

I'm sure the details were posted elsewhere, but this image from ep 07 (Suzaku's reference book), reveals some info:

http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/6...toryih3.th.jpg

Chiefly that England moved to absolute monarchy and expanded under Henry X (possibly fictional) and Edward VI into the New World exploiting the chaos in Europe...

Cloudy 2006-12-06 09:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayF (Post 760110)
98 emperors? Either the line has been ruling for close to a thousand years now or the go through their soverigns like a hentai fanboy does tissues.

I think the previous 97 emperors isn't competitive enough to prevent being overthrown except for this current emperor due to the ''survival of the fittest'' rule that the Britanna empire is following.

Darkeyesrina 2006-12-06 12:23

Well, this is my own theory about what happen, so you are free to criticize it or give me any extra.

Most people say that the American Revolution was the turning point of the CG world, but honestly I don't think so. I think it goes a bit more behind. This is my idea/theory:

What would have happen if the actually House of Tord Line didn't die (They were the last line that used the Henry/Edward names)?

What if the Spanish/French Armada actually was able to land in England and start attacking/conquering the country while Queen Elizabeth was actually able to escape to the New World, maybe marry and give her own heir?

Now lets say that this actually happened, and that Queen Elizabeth and his descendants were actually able to live and even start planning and forming their armies to reconquer Britain and destroy their enemies using the resource of the New World.

This way the American Revolution would have never happen because they were "Exiled British" with a national pride and a dream of reconquering their country and destroying their enemies. There was no need to free themselves from the mainland because there was no mainland, they were the country now.

Of course, I pressume that it must have been a very conflicting monarch family in which maybe they had different kings/queens every month until the most powerful was able to rule for a couple of years until their sons/daughters were stronger than him.

Now during the 17th century with the French Revolution and the decadence of the Spanish Empire, the Exiled Britain would have taken the advantage to strike back to the French and the Spanish/Portugal Kingdoms when they were weaker. In one big war, Britain, could have obtained all the rest of the New World and England back.

After that, I suppose everything keep its timeline like today until WWII which I could bet that the Germans won by promising never to attack Britannia and currently the NAZI party is ruling the EEU with puppet states all over Europe. In the EEU the (German) people has equal rights and opportunities.

The Chinese Federation is most likely the current China with the same history. The only difference will be that Britannia never went to war in Europe, but did ally with China and won the war in the Pacific.

I am willing to bet that the Otoman/Turkish Empire did survive the WWI and didn't participated in WWII, but was conquered recently by Brittania.

Maybe Portugal/Brazil are still independant but are only agricultural/raw material countries without much importance.

Yet I am really wondering when the CC's people intervene with the affairs in the CG world and how many times besides the WWI photo.

Paranoia833 2006-12-06 17:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkeyesrina (Post 760315)
What would have happen if the actually House of Tord Line didn't die (They were the last line that used the Henry/Edward names)?

You mean Tudor right? If so, you're probably right.

Quote:

What if the Spanish/French Armada actually was able to land in England and start attacking/conquering the country while Queen Elizabeth was actually able to escape to the New World, maybe marry and give her own heir?
Possible, although personally I think it's more likely that Edward VI simply lived long enough to father an heir, although given that Edward VI's father is referred to as 'Henry X' it would imply that the historical difference goes even further back, possibly the War of the Roses was a lot bloodier in the Geass-verse and they went through several Henry Tudors very quickly? I'm not really sure on the America thing as the anime gives no evidence either way. That said if Edward VI is the same as ours the tone of the history book would imply that Britain prospered considerably from his reign onward. Certainly there was obviously no civil war, and whoever was reigning in place of Charles I may even have gotten away with dissolving parliament permanently (or at least keeping it firmly under his thumb)

Quote:

After that, I suppose everything keep its timeline like today until WWII which I could bet that the Germans won by promising never to attack Britannia and currently the NAZI party is ruling the EEU with puppet states all over Europe. In the EEU the (German) people has equal rights and opportunities.
Doubtful. The Emporer specifically mentioned 'mob rule' as one of his criticisms of the EU, which would imply a far more democratic society than Nazi rule post Enabling Act. Perhaps the Weimar Republic was overthrown by communism, then went democratic after the collapse of the USSR? Of course a British America might have altered the way the great depression turned out completely and that's assuming the Weimar Republic ever existed (A powerful, strictly monarchist Britain and no America would likely have altered the treaty of Versailles considerably with regards to how the future German government turned out).

Quote:

The Chinese Federation is most likely the current China with the same history. The only difference will be that Britannia never went to war in Europe, but did ally with China and won the war in the Pacific.
Quite possibly, although we can assume Japan got out of it a lot better out of the war than they did in our world, considering they were still very much independant until Lelouche's childhood.

All things considered, I myself am wondering just how much these 'aliens' (if that's what they are and not some Atlantis-like super high tech society) intervened in human affairs. Presumably the higher level of technology is due to them in some way, but I'll be damned if I can guess how.

Fun as this is, something tells me Geass is going to be deliberately vague about how precisely it differs historically, so as not to attract rants from the history fans. :p

Cal-Reflector 2006-12-06 17:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paranoia833 (Post 760661)
You mean Tudor right? If so, you're probably right.



Possible, although personally I think it's more likely that Edward VI simply lived long enough to father an heir, although given that Edward VI's father is referred to as 'Henry X' it would imply that the historical difference goes even further back, possibly the War of the Roses was a lot bloodier in the Geass-verse and they went through several Henry Tudors very quickly? I'm not really sure on the America thing as the anime gives no evidence either way. That said if Edward VI is the same as ours the tone of the history book would imply that Britain prospered considerably from his reign onward. Certainly there was obviously no civil war, and whoever was reigning in place of Charles I may even have gotten away with dissolving parliament permanently (or at least keeping it firmly under his thumb)



Doubtful. The Emporer specifically mentioned 'mob rule' as one of his criticisms of the EU, which would imply a far more democratic society than Nazi rule post Enabling Act. Perhaps the Weimar Republic was overthrown by communism, then went democratic after the collapse of the USSR? Of course a British America might have altered the way the great depression turned out completely and that's assuming the Weimar Republic ever existed (A powerful, strictly monarchist Britain and no America would likely have altered the treaty of Versailles considerably with regards to how the future German government turned out).



Quite possibly, although we can assume Japan got out of it a lot better out of the war than they did in our world, considering they were still very much independant until Lelouche's childhood.

All things considered, I myself am wondering just how much these 'aliens' (if that's what they are and not some Atlantis-like super high tech society) intervened in human affairs. Presumably the higher level of technology is due to them in some way, but I'll be damned if I can guess how.

Fun as this is, something tells me Geass is going to be deliberately vague about how precisely it differs historically, so as not to attract rants from the history fans. :p

Unless some new data turns up in the show soon, I sense the wind going out of this thread...

cyoti 2006-12-07 21:28

98 emperors so far, I wonder will we see the 100th by the time the series ends?

Cal-Reflector 2006-12-07 22:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyoti (Post 762178)
98 emperors so far, I wonder will we see the 100th by the time the series ends?

Yeah, his name will be Leulouch Brittania.

melange 2006-12-08 10:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paranoia833 (Post 760661)
Certainly there was obviously no civil war, and whoever was reigning in place of Charles I may even have gotten away with dissolving parliament permanently (or at least keeping it firmly under his thumb)

I can't help but think the Civil War itself would be a good Point of Divergence... With a royalist victory, parlimentary representation and the democratic ideals stemming from it would be nipped in the bud and absolute monarchy would be solidified. Just a thought

ZeusIrae 2006-12-09 10:14

Why only one turning point?

There could several,the civil war is one,the american revolution is another.
But even that isn't really enough.Perhaps WWI happened(we see a old pictures in ep2 with WWI tank)and ended with UK as a clear victor.With the rest of europe completely exhausted.

JediNight 2006-12-09 10:24

Where would they get the 98 Emperors from then? Some kind of delusional statement that their lineage traces back through to the Caesars of Rome maybe? Since you guys had mentioned the Holy Brittania/Holy Roman Empire thing.

Storm-and-Fire 2006-12-09 12:12

Well, I came accross a post at livejournal that featured a transcription of stuff written on Suzaku's textbook. It pretty much shows how Brittania came to be.

http://community.livejournal.com/code_geass/40650.html

LS Eden 2006-12-09 13:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cal-Reflector (Post 762248)
Yeah, his name will be Leulouch Brittania.

And who will become 99th? Schneizel? :uhoh:


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