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-   -   General Gundam Mecha, Weapons, and Technology (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=40993)

Dan the Man 2007-01-01 04:58

General Gundam Mecha, Weapons, and Technology
 
Okay, for a long while now, I'm been confused at the function of the Moveable Frame used by MS from Zeta onward. Every reference I look at tells me that the original frames of MS were just basic ones with new armor and upgrade slapped on, or something to that extent, and the Moveable Frame, which is never explained, is better because it enables MS transformation. I've never been able to find out exactly what makes the Moveable Frame different from older MS body frames. I even have the Perfect Grade Gundam Mk. II, the first MF equipped suit and it's frame is no different from any other before it, at least as far as I can tell.

Now, the only things I've been able to figure out is that since MS around Zeta are almost completely dependent on beam weaponry, and since the power of a beam is much more powerful than a shell, there was less of a need for bulky armor on a suit, making the armor on the outside basically aesthetic. Since the armor has been lightened, the frame itself has a higher range of mobility, and, as far as I can figure, is what enables the suit to contort and alter it's shape, because there's no heavy and bulky armor limiting the range of movement. Sort of like comparing the armored Gundam Alex to it's basic form. Regardless, if anyone else knows anything else about Moveable Frame technology, please set me straight, this has been bugging me for a long while.

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The purpose of this thread is to discuss Mecha, Weapons and Technology from all of the Gundam works. Note that Gundam 00 has its own thread here: http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=72688, so this thread should stick mostly with works other than Gundam 00.

Note that because of the nature of this thread, there will be spoilers of all sorts of Gundam works. Please keep such spoilers to a minimum, and use well-titled spoiler tags whenever possible.
[spoiler=title]Don't forget to use a title to let everyone know what you're spoiling![/spoiler]

Be polite to your fellow forum members and try and keep the discussion on topic and above all, enjoy.

-4Tran

EnigmaticThief 2007-01-01 12:11

You're correct that the Movable Frame has to do with beam weapons becoming commonplace and its implications against most heavy armor.

Basically think of it this way: in the beginning mobile suits were designed around providing their pilot and the machine itself protection against most conventional weapons at the time (machineguns, bazookas, and other physical weapons) similar to how a spacesuit's most essential function is to provide a solid barrier that won't let air escape. Apogee motors, joints, and all manner of mechanics were packed into the shell of that armor to make the suit functional. Time passes and technology advances, and towards the end of the One Year War even Zeon has a MS with a beam rifle that's standard equipment, the Gelgoog.

Now that beam weapons have become standard equipment on most mobile suits, there needs to be a fundamental design change to counter that. The solution is to lose most heavy armor, and emphasise speed in order to dodge more effectively; namely, the movable frame. The movable frame reverses the previous standard for mobile suit construction. Now engineers begin at the basic structure of the mobile suit, it's "skeleton," and after that is complete design the armor that will go on top of the most essential or vulnerable spots (cockpit, knees and elbows, etc.) The armor itself is likely to be divided into several smaller pieces allowing a greater degree of freedom in regards to motion.

For an example, I'll use the Master Grade Gundam Mk. II 2.0. At first glance, it's leg seems like any other mobile suit's. However, when it bends at the knee the knee armor separates into two pieces. Keep bending it, and eventually the thigh armor separates in two, a front and back piece, that allows the lower leg to come all the way back up to the point where it's nearly touching the thigh. The front shin armor also moves up and down in time with how much the ankle is moved. So, you can see that the Movable Frame system allows for maximum coverage from minimal armor while providing encanced mobility.

j_wong00 2007-01-01 17:16

Imagine the monocoupe/semi-monocoupe frame as a mid-evil knight in full plate armor.
Highly protective, but you're not going to move very easily.

Now Imagine the movable frame as a present day S.W.A.T. member.
He's only wearing enough armor in the vitals (vest, helmet, knee/shin pads).
Not as much protection, but he can move a lot better.

Renegade334 2007-01-01 18:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by j_wong00 (Post 786069)
Imagine the monocoupe/semi-monocoupe frame as a mid-evil knight in full plate armor.
Highly protective, but you're not going to move very easily.

Did you mean 'monocoque'?[/pernickety :heh:]

Dan the Man 2007-01-01 21:09

Thanks, guys. That does help clear up my questions. It's amazing, the more you look into Gundam, the more ridiculously complex and scientific evereything gets. Then again, that's what makes it all so interesting, if you ask me.

j_wong00 2007-01-02 18:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renegade334 (Post 786108)
Did you mean 'monocoque'?[/pernickety :heh:]

Eh, close enough :p.

wavehawk 2007-01-03 00:55

The other note about the Movable Frame is that it's a hell lot easier to fix or replace parts or armor blown away or damaged in combat. The One Year War MS, as previously mentioned, have a monocoque design, meaning it was one shell covering the unit. Thus it was a pain in the ass to fix things if they were internal problems (say a burnt-out wire or a snapped pivot link). Since the Movable Frame essentially allows you to just pull off the armor and certain parts, it's a lot easier to maintain than a monocoque-type MS.

Plus, when you talk about mass-producing such MS, it's a lot easier to find and attach said replacement parts in the field (i.e. in combat zones). A damaged mobile suit can fit parts from other (similar) MS easily. In an emergency, a repair crew can more quickly and easily fix up an MS with the movable frame "endoskeleton" by removing the part that's damaged, and swapping in a replacement--possibly from another damaged MS.

4Tran 2008-10-12 03:39

Bumping thread to reflect updated title.

RAVNEN 2008-10-12 04:52

I've seen Astray Green Frame & it look cool. Any info on its feature, for example the Blue Frame can use all type of weapon. So does it have special feature???:confused:

Blaat 2008-10-12 05:27

I thought mobile suits in UC Gundam stopped being bulky sometime after CCA and not during Zeta (ZZ Gundam isn't exactly small and compact neither is The O)

Double 120% 2008-10-12 05:32

I'm glad to see that the idea of discussing General Gundam Technology I brought up in the Gundam 00 Technology thread was finally put into play.

plau 2008-10-12 10:13

Does anyone have MS Development Charts for Gundam SEED/Destiny? Thanks.

squaresphere 2008-10-12 20:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by j_wong00 (Post 786069)
Imagine the monocoupe/semi-monocoupe frame as a mid-evil knight in full plate armor.
Highly protective, but you're not going to move very easily.

This is a good analogy for Gundam design, the heavy knight armor design was discarded because of two things military reason. 1) the plentiful nature of weapons that could puncture the armor (arrows, crossbow bolts) 2)mobile enemies with weapons that attacked the less armored location, it's under armor joints etc).

So later you have more flexible armor like mail and just a breast plate being more popular, until the advent of cannons and semi-accurate guns. So armor goes out the window so mobility is key.

Now in there is emphasis on mobility but with lighter flexible materials armor is making a comeback. In CE Gundam terms it's I-fields.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wavehawk (Post 787507)
Plus, when you talk about mass-producing such MS, it's a lot easier to find and attach said replacement parts in the field (i.e. in combat zones). A damaged mobile suit can fit parts from other (similar) MS easily. In an emergency, a repair crew can more quickly and easily fix up an MS with the movable frame "endoskeleton" by removing the part that's damaged, and swapping in a replacement--possibly from another damaged MS.

in 08th gundam the whole concept of the EZ gundam was designed around making a suit with left over parts :D

darkprimus 2008-10-12 21:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by plau (Post 1982398)
Does anyone have MS Development Charts for Gundam SEED/Destiny? Thanks.

Here you go. Earth Alliance first:

and now ZAFT

plau 2008-10-12 23:41

Wow... Thanks. Thats great. I'm actually trying to create a more complete version of that. Does anyone have any idea where the Turn Delta and Stargazer would fit in? Thanks.

Paladinoras 2008-10-13 07:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by plau (Post 1983992)
Wow... Thanks. Thats great. I'm actually trying to create a more complete version of that. Does anyone have any idea where the Turn Delta and Stargazer would fit in? Thanks.

Well, I hate Turn Delta, so can;t help you with that.

But the Stargazer should fit in somewhere in the DSSD category.

plau 2008-10-13 10:43

Yea, but where did it come from... I have an extreme (near obsession) with these development charts. and i haven't been able to find many... other than the above.

RAVNEN 2008-10-13 11:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by plau (Post 1984986)
Yea, but where did it come from... I have an extreme (near obsession) with these development charts. and i haven't been able to find many... other than the above.

Well,Turn A Delta Astray was built by Lowe Guele. Pilot by Agnes Brahe,a 16 year old coordinator from Mars. Lowe Guele use some data & technology from Mars & DSSD.

So technically it belong to Mars nation.

Setona Winter(Agnes older sister) give Agnes Turn A Delta to replace the cripple Delta Astray.The Turn A have Voiture Lumiere propulsion system similar to Destiny Wing of Light and armed with beam rifle & forearm- mounted beam sabers.

It have some Victory gundam influence on its design.More info about it on MAHQ.net or Wikipedia.:D

Rising Dragon 2008-10-13 13:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by RAVNEN (Post 1985049)
Well,Turn A Delta Astray was built by Lowe Guele. Pilot by Agnes Brahe,a 16 year old coordinator from Mars. Lowe Guele use some data & technology from Mars & DSSD.

So technically it belong to Mars nation.

Setona Winter(Agnes older sister) give Agnes Turn A Delta to replace the cripple Delta Astray.The Turn A have Voiture Lumiere propulsion system similar to Destiny Wing of Light and armed with beam rifle & forearm- mounted beam sabers.

It have some Victory gundam influence on its design.More info about it on MAHQ.net or Wikipedia.:D

Its Delta Astray and Turn Delta. Not Turn A Delta, you're getting Delta and Turn A Gundam titles mixed up.

plau 2008-10-13 23:57

Any details on this mars nation? I presume Gunshell also came from there.


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