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-   -   Are those big summons worth the chakra they cost? (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=42144)

Tomislav 2007-01-25 10:04

Are those big summons worth the chakra they cost?
 
Large summons like Gamabunta, Manda and Katzuyu require a "Kage" level amount of chakra to be summoned and (apart from Katsuyu) they show a pretty tough personality. Kabuto says that if Manda would know that Oro cannot make signs with his hands, he would probably eat the both of them. And Jiraiya as well states that Gamabunta is not totally under his control.

On the other side, those large summons looks like they are not as effective as one might think on the battlefield. So I'm asking: in your opinion, are those characters (which I love, especially Gamabunta) worth summoning?

cheese no koma 2007-01-25 10:18

During a war, a big summon should be able to hold off an army of low-level shinobi, so yeah i think they're worth it.

Chains of Heaven 2007-01-25 10:31

against many low level oppenets it may cause terror and fear.But against one person it'll take %85 of your chakra and all you have to do is to rely on your summon and pray he wont be beaten up.still those things are not invincible and i believe some dispel jutsu can send them back (like sakura did to kabuto's sleeping jutsu..but a more improved dispel needed)

Bakaaa 2007-01-25 11:15

true but summons got their own shakra which i suppose is quite high allowing them to use high level justsus as gamabunta oil or water cannon

Rahan 2007-01-25 11:21

According to how Oro and Kabuto wet their pants when they see Tsunade and Jiraiya doing the seals for the Kuchiyose no Jutsu (IIRC, Kabuto taking a scared face when he recognizes the seals, then rushing to Oro who yells at him to hurry up calling Manda), I guess even him isn't that confident against Bunta and the slug.

Also, Enma didn't have any trouble holding his ground against both Shodaime and Nidaime before his transformation.

I agree they are underused when they are called though, but it is because it's a show about ninjas, not about oil-throwing frogs fighting against giant snakes.

Uchiha_Gaara 2007-01-25 12:42

@Rahan
Enma isn't considered a big summon, I think...

On topic: I think that for 1 on 1 fights it's not worth the efort to be calling such unreliable summons but during an invasion, full scale war or fight between giant beasts (like the Kyubi attack on Konoha) it's very usefull.
Look what those giant snakes did during the Konoha invasion! They were a major part of the plan and destroyed a great part of the vilage!

In situations that don't require a lot of control over the summons (war, invasions) it's worth it !

yuchan 2007-01-25 14:19

Like the others said, against 1 strong opponent like a akatsuki member or sannin, not so much. But against an army, very much. I think the 3 big summons the sannin summon could very easily wreak havoc on a small village. It'd take more than a couple explosive tags or fire jutsu to take them them. I know Katsuyu had that poison gas that would definitely destory many really fast. And Gamabunta and Manda could just use their bodies to wreak havoc.

Uchiha_Gaara 2007-01-25 16:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by yuchan (Post 811505)
It'd take more than a couple explosive tags or fire jutsu to take them them.

Actualy it would take a lot more. On the Konoha invasion they fired several Katon: Gokakyu no Jutsu and lots of explosive tags just on one of the 3 snakes and it didn't do a thing !

Ryukage 2007-01-25 17:26

Think about it this way. Without Gamabunta. Yondaime probably wouldn't of been able to handle the Kyuubi on his own. So.. The cost of a villageful or people..no.. A COUNTRY. I'd say it's pretty damn worthit to have these big summons..

Slayerx 2007-01-25 17:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daking (Post 811278)
against many low level oppenets it may cause terror and fear.But against one person it'll take %85 of your chakra and all you have to do is to rely on your summon and prey he wont be beaten up.still those things are not invincible and i believe some dispel jutsu can send them back (like sakura did to kabuto's sleeping jutsu..but a more improved dispel needed)

Sakura was dispelling a sleep genjutsu... basically using genjutsu to counter genjutsu... so far there is absolutly no sign that a summoning jutsu can be dispelled

Quote:

Enma isn't considered a big summon, I think...
i wouldn't be so sure of that... considering he is the moneky king and all, he is quite possibly the strongest of monkey summons. While he may not be large in size, he probably has overall strength ability and so forth (like enourmous chakra pool and speed... he did fight well against the hokages) comparable to the literally big summons, and thus may very well cost just as much to summon... but of this we can't be certain

amOKchen 2007-01-26 02:36

In my opinnion thoose summons are pretty darn strong!

One thing though that can't slip my mind... Gai's turtle summoning, I wonder how weak it would be lol! (let's hide in shell!)

ein 2007-01-26 03:27

Enma is NOT a BIG/large summon. He's only a little larger than a regular human being.

big != strong

chaz017 2007-01-26 05:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by ein (Post 812239)
Enma is NOT a BIG/large summon. He's only a little larger than a regular human being.

big != strong


True, he isn't big in size but he is still an extremely high level summon. As the saying goes...it's not the size that matters. Only in this case it's actully true.

As for whether or not these high level summons are useful I'd say it's pretty obvious that they are. I agree with almost everyone that they very useful in large scale battles. However, I have to disagree with those who said that in 1 vs 1 battles they aren't. I don't know the statistics on exactly how much chakra they take to summon(a post above said 85% but I'm not sure if that's accurate) but at this point the only thing I have seen to answer one of these summons is another summon. If you had the ability to summon say Gamabunta or Manda and your opponent had no summon I would say your at a distinct advantage.

Hentai Guy 2007-01-26 05:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by chaz017 (Post 812291)
True, he isn't big in size but he is still an extremely high level summon. As the saying goes...it's not the size that matters. Only in this case it's actully true.

As for whether or not these high level summons are useful I'd say it's pretty obvious that they are. I agree with almost everyone that they very useful in large scale battles. However, I have to disagree with those who said that in 1 vs 1 battles they aren't. I don't know the statistics on exactly how much chakra they take to summon(a post above said 85% but I'm not sure if that's accurate) but at this point the only thing I have seen to answer one of these summons is another summon. If you had the ability to summon say Gamabunta or Manda and your opponent had no summon I would say your at a distinct advantage.

I'd especially agree on the one-on-one point. As someone noted, Oro freaked out when he knew Gambunta and Katsuyu were being summoned. Also, Oro did the time Enma was summoned, telling the dead Hokages they must kill the 3rd before he could finish.

Look at summoning in the series...has it EVER been a bad idea (aside from when you mess up, or manage to piss off your summon)? Bunta has always been useful (saving Naruto from falling to death, fighting the Shukaku, fighting Manda, etc)...hell, look at Temari's Kamatari...that thing was awesome! The only summons that really havn't done much is Manda...who did some fighting and then got stabbed in the head, and the Doki...who did some fighting and then lost. Every other summon (with the exclusion of Gamatatsu and Ninkame) has either contributed to a victory, saved a character's life, or prevented an enemy from accomplishing his goal (at least for a time).

fullmetalMonkey 2007-01-26 23:49

well maybe agansti a low level shinobi but like a army of junine of hight rank ninja or in a battle aganist a single ninja unless they used gaint summon first it seems like a waste of charka

Ichimaru 2007-01-26 23:57

there is always taijutu to back you up if you learnt any, that doesnt require chakra, but only stamina.

Hentai Guy 2007-01-27 01:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ichimaru (Post 813161)
there is always taijutu to back you up if you learnt any, that doesnt require chakra, but only stamina.

Eh...not always...Rock Lee and Guy use chakra in their taijutsu, Sasuke makes note of it when he fights Lee before the Chuunin exams.

Mr. Johnny 5 2007-01-27 03:00

Those huge summonings are definetly worth it...i think the snakes already proved it during the invasion. Gamabunta if i am correct is the strongest and biggest frog summoning.

And this other frog crushed that huge snake instantly...while jounins & chuunins couldnt stop them with all their attempts.

Then if you can remember the fight of Gaara & Naruto....if that battle took place near or inside Konoha....then Konoha would've been done for. Such a battle destroys nearly everything...(which is why Temari was on the move the entire time)

EoT 2007-01-27 06:00

Personally, I would only use a summon if I knew the other opponent did not have one and I was in a situation where if I didn't use it I would die or I would use it in the situation where mine was stronger than the other oponents.

Most of the time, we have seen them been used recklessly in the Sannin arc and so on.

Slayerx 2007-01-27 12:18

Ya when it comes down to it its hard to say the summonings are not worth it... i mean, everytime someone used one of those big summons they either gained a huge advantage or evened out the fight...

Invasion of kohona: though not a boss summon, the snakes rampaged and could not be stopped by the jounins and chunins... one frog summon and the things was taken down

Oro vs Sarutobi: Oro summoned the two hokages to fight and they were so strong that oro was able to sit back and watch while the two of them on their own kicked sarutobi's ass... what did sarutobi do? he summoned Enma and the battle suddenly became much more even

Naruto vs Garra: Garra brings out his demon, which has power similar to that of a big summon... Naruto uses gamabunta in order to fight back

Sannin fight: All of the sannins at the same times brought out their big summons... none of them even considered taken on the other's big summon by themselves... Why? most likely because they knew the jutsus in their arrsenal wouldn't be enough to take on the might of the big summons; thus the chakra was much better spent on big summons then on jutsus

So ya... i think they are definatly worth the chakra, especially the boss summons... those who used boss summons either gained a huge advantage in a fight, or evened the odds in a fight where they were clearly getting(or going to get) their ass kicked


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