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-   -   Negima Episode 19 Discussion / Poll (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=42706)

monir 2007-02-07 04:34

Negima Episode 19 Discussion / Poll
 
Welcome to the discussion thread for Negima, Episode 19!

Thread Guidelines
  • No telling or asking for raws.
  • Try to keep spoilers from the Manga out of the anime thread.
    If you need to reply to someone with a reference to the Manga, either PM them or use clearly marked Spoiler tags (see example below).
  • Discuss your expectations of the episode if not aired.
  • Be polite to your fellow forum members.
  • Try to keep the discussion on topic and future episode spoilers out of the thread whenever possible.

Spoiler Tag Example
[spoiler=title]Don't forget to use a title for the spoiler![/spoiler]
...becomes...
Spoiler for Your title:

eggplant 2007-02-07 04:37

Spoiler for Episode 19:

Shiroth 2007-02-07 12:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by eggplant (Post 824946)
Spoiler:

Spoiler:

TnAdct1 2007-02-07 13:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by eggplant (Post 824946)
Spoiler for Episode 19:

My point exactly.
Spoiler:

Vexx 2007-02-07 15:54

I've been watching the raws of Hidamari Sketch and:
Spoiler for doesn't reveal much of HS but...:

Its pretty clear to me at this point that Shinbo "took the money and ran" on Negima!? and it is now drifting aimlessly in the wind and may just sputter out.

The remaining win is still all these lovely little comedy bits and eyecatches... the loss to Negima fans is more strategic and the production company *ought* to be pissed. Far too much "suka" far too little action -- certainly not enough focus on the girls (which is an underlying sellpoint no matter how much Ken wants to do "shounen" whatever...). Still tagging the series as "entertaining but ultimately disappointing".
oy vey dah suka...

relentlessflame 2007-02-09 00:38

Shinbo being the Chief Director of Hidamari Sketch is more like an advisory role, seeing as the show's actual director is Ryouki Kamitsubo. Plus, I'm sort of confused for how you all imagine anime production works if you all really believe that the way a turns in its second half could have anything at all to do with one single person's supervisory role in a second production that is substantially being produced by a completely seperate team. The directoral decisions about the story for Negima!? were made probably a year ago or more. Each episode has its own episode director, storyboard artist, and art/animation supervisors. And again, most of their episode work probably began over six-to-nine months ago or more -- otherwise, how could they possibly get it to air on-time? -- and, again, they weren't at the same time working on Hidamari Sketch. On top of that, shows losing a bit of steam just before the final push aren't exactly uncommon either.

I'm not at all trying to take away your dislike, but the reasoning you're all turning to is completely baffling to me. Since when does anime production work like that? Even if they had delayed Hidamari Sketch's airing to April, this is still the episode they had planned a long time ago when they did the Series Script and Composition. Shouldn't you just say that you don't like it?

Vexx 2007-02-09 00:53

I'm trying to figure out why Shinbo blew it so bad with what should have been an easy show... allowing for pre-production work (yes, I know about preproduction) there's still an overlap. Basically I'm looking for some reason outside of "he just royally took the money and went to sleep" on the last 7 or 8 episodes after a really stellar series start.
Even the most ardent Shinbo fans are scratching their heads here (and not just on this forum).

relentlessflame 2007-02-09 01:23

Ultimately, I suppose that history and sales will judge whether Shinbo "blew it" or not, as you speculate. Maybe this is just the show Shinbo and the production team wanted to create, even if some/many (anecdotal at this point) don't like the way it's turning out? Who knows, really. Sales and ratings are still looking okay at the moment. A director presents their vision, and history decides how it'll be remembered, if at all. We'll never know all the circumstances that went into a production, or various pressures and influences that are applied. But to me, "he took the money and went to sleep" is not one of the likely options, and neither is "he's been spending his time on another show". Even the Xebec production, that was littered with fan complaints and production problems, didn't fail out of directorial malice or incompetence. It's not that simple.

In any event, on the whole, I still say this show has been a lot of fun for me. But then again, I've liked some really poor-selling shows, so I don't claim to be any sort of authority. But if I enjoy a show, the director didn't fail me, and that's all I really care about. And I still wonder if "maybe this show just isn't for me" isn't more logical than looking for reasons to blame someone else, no matter how many people and places share your feelings of disappointment. But hey, that's just my opinion, of course.

Vexx 2007-02-09 01:46

Hey, the whole forum is about opinion :)

To some extent, there's some suffering because it is being compared to his other works (TMP, PPD, etc). Allowing for the show appearing to focus on humor rather than plot or action, some Shinbo fans (I'm sidestepping Negima fans for the moment) feel it comes up stumbling for humor after the first 10ish episodes. There's a lot of moments in the show that are priceless... but as the anime group at work said last week, "what? MORE suka? ... O never mind!" and now it isn't on the lunchtime watch list.

(thinks of Yamato Nadesico Shichi Henge and the director's reliance on the same 3 'jokes' for about 10 episodes while interesting stuff lay festering)

I think whether the tide turns for me will depend on the next episode... as someone said hopefully, "maybe they got all the suka out of their system" this episode.

TnAdct1 2007-02-09 13:32

If you really want my opinion on how Negima!? could have went downhill, outside of Hidamari Sketch, there's one other thing that may have caused it: the idea of having almost all of Negi's students find out his secret (and make Pactios with him) halfway through the series run. Basically, the huge risk that SHAFT made of having all of 3-A discover Negi's secret at the end of episode 12 has ended up backfiring on them. Why do I say this? Two big reasons for this:

1. It ends up ruining the excellent plot structure that the show had from episodes 4-12 (a main plot that focuses on Negi, his Ministra Magi, and the "girl of the week"; sub-plots/short bits involving the other students);
2. When it comes to those girls who have made their Pactios in episode 14, the only ones who actualy had any real (i.e. non-Suka) action were Sayo and Ayaka, two girls that already had some major focus in the first half of the series.

As I and another person agreed on in another board, unless there's a situation where Negi needs to Pactio with several girls, the mass Pactio should have been avoided at all costs.

Vexx 2007-02-09 16:48

(adds "pactio shark-jumping" to list of probables)
The sad thing is that implies they really hadn't fleshed out the latter half of the series story-board style before they hit the jet thrusters...

ah well... I've put my knives back in the drawer to see if perhaps they pull out of their creativity slump ... since they're not doing Negima I should at least get Shinbo for my time.

relentlessflame 2007-02-09 18:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vexx (Post 827774)
The sad thing is that implies they really hadn't fleshed out the latter half of the series story-board style before they hit the jet thrusters...

But, but... Argh... I'm really bad at explaining myself. :heh: All it really implies that this is the direction they decided to take the story. There's no evidence to suggest that they didn't do their homework and plan this out from day one. The "randomness" and different storytelling angles has been part of the style all along, IMO. I just really don't get why "this is exactly the show that Shinbo wanted to create" is so impossible to consider. Why exactly are we so sure that someone must, obviously, have "screwed up"? That's what I don't for the life of me understand... :heh:

Vexx 2007-02-09 20:16

Mostly because I've seen Shinbo's other efforts ... this one just doesn't seem to be hitting the same levels???? If it was case of lacking material, then its probably the best that could be done but since he assertively dumped the source material, he's on the hook for producing something shiny like his other winning series. Of course, I assume he did what he intended... but then I intend that every design I come up with be implemented easily and be easy to maintain (whoops, splat).

I'm sounding way too negative ... I *really* liked the first 5-8 episodes, premise, "alternative", art style, wacky, .... but then like Yamato Nadesico Shichi Henge, it seemed trapped in a cul de sac (YNSH seemed trapped in the same 3 jokes for almost 9 episodes). Now YNSH has recently taken a sudden turn out of the pit of doom <shrug> perhaps Negima!? will wake up again as well.

relentlessflame 2007-02-09 22:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vexx (Post 828022)
Mostly because I've seen Shinbo's other efforts ... this one just doesn't seem to be hitting the same levels???? If it was case of lacking material, then its probably the best that could be done but since he assertively dumped the source material, he's on the hook for producing something shiny like his other winning series. Of course, I assume he did what he intended... but then I intend that every design I come up with be implemented easily and be easy to maintain (whoops, splat).

So basically you're saying "I like the director, and I like the source material, but I'm not liking the way this has been going... why not?" I think everyone can identify with that question. But don't you think blaming your mixed feelings on "objective flaws in the production process" is a bit problematic for people who like it the way it is? You're blazing straight through what it is exactly that you do and don't like, and all the way to "it must be their fault". That's quite a leap. If they really did something wrong, then shouldn't I feel the same way? Why is it that we see it differently? Pretty hard question, perhaps, but impossible to discuss unless we both admit that "maybe, at least in part, it's just me after all". Then we can find common ground. I think that's what I'm trying to say.

Vexx 2007-02-09 23:18

Fair enough - assessments are always personal though they can be somewhat objective depending on the metrics or lack of them ....

... of course if the fansub project fades into oblivion it may cease to matter :)
(wanders away for a second)
I reviewed the sub release dates ... last drop was 7jan07 and we got eps 10-13, before that there were 2 in december and 4 in November. I would guess we're about due for another drop but Mahora's been pretty quiet though a visit to their website shows they're not dead per se...

Deathkillz 2007-02-10 07:28

so i guess most of us here are saying how hard this series is failing ~ plotwise it has completely gone...as evidence for the 3 minute OP cause there isnt any material worthwhile to put into the ep ~ putting it in a bad way i nearly fell asleep ~ and still at the end im thinking..."what the hell was the point of this ep?" as clearly it didnt tell us anything new that we didnt know already ~

USCPharmacist 2007-02-10 17:01

I am sorry, but the jokes usually go over my head, I guess I have to be Japanese to understand. On the other hand, this episode is really funny in some parts, and if you just watch it as a crazy comedy it is actually not bad, like Keroro Gunsou.

Child_of_Sierra 2007-02-11 02:06

They could have just made a spin-off series based on the premise of this episode alone :heh:

I would have enjoyed it much more since it would not be so confusing (granted I am watching raws without much japanese knowledge...) and then all the randomness would not seem so out of place (or too much) whenever "something" happens.

I usually try to avoid a show whenever I realize that it was not meant for my taste but the "NEGIMA" label (nevermind that they said it would be different than the manga or previous tv series) drew me in like a moth to the flame.

So even as I cringe at the falling humor (puns are way too deep for the average non-japanese watcher) and increasing still frames (at least these are preferrable to constantly reused animation) I burn myself weekly by watching the episodes. I don't think the series is [insert deregatory comment here] since i do enjoy it half the time but its not something I would recommend to my friends... (except for the first few and this one :love:).

TnAdct1 2007-02-11 12:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Child_of_Sierra (Post 829259)
They could have just made a spin-off series based on the premise of this episode alone :heh:

Preferably, I'd go for an "alternate universe" OAV, although I don't mind a "suka universe" series in which Chupacabra Negi goes on a journey with boar piglet Asuna, seal Nodoka, koala Konoka, and Japanese crane Setsuna (with the rest being characters that they either meet on their journey, or
Spoiler for manga:

dahl_moon 2007-05-28 22:57

My interest for this series had tapered off with episode 17 raw, and I've caught up to 18 and 19. :love:ed it! Why hadn't we seen this earlier? If this was shown right after the mass-pactio, and dumped the black baron, I would have enjoyed this series ten-fold.

I'm still attempting to download the rest of the episodes, but I am stuck for the time being on an ultra-thin pipe, so who knows how long it will take to download.:heh:


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