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-   -   Could Rock have beaten Neji? (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=4306)

Lost World 2004-01-05 12:38

Could Rock have beaten Neji?
 
In the Chuunin exams I mean...

I seriously think he could've, if Gaara hadn't gotten in the way of that. There were a few times during Gaara's fight where Neji could be seen as shocked/in awe that Rock was capable of that type of power...He obviously had no idea what type of power Rock had been saving up for their next fight.

Besides, how would Neji have been able to hit Rock if he couldn't see him?

Xyque 2004-01-05 12:46

Hard to say, Neji's eyes might have been able to pick lee up, but still, even if Neji could see Lee, there's the fact that Lee's physical power is probably the highest of all the genins, I mean, how to you block a kick that has the power of a mac truck bearing down on you?

GreyArea 2004-01-05 12:51

Who knows?

Thats why there's no point in Vs threads...

pathyfinder 2004-01-05 13:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreyArea
Who knows? Thats why there's no point in Vs threads...

So discussing a subject with fellow Naruto fans to see what their opinion is must not be point enough for some. However, it's just about as pointless to state the obvious like "who knows". Sometimes speculation(s) are fun, I would take it that they are annoying to you. :confused:

Lee could do something that most could not, open several gates to obtain true and total power potential. Neji never saw, or perhaps even knew Lee could do that. Just like Neji underestimated Naruto's ability, and that thinking helps me to think that Lee could of kicked Neji's butt pretty good. Neji learned in his fight with Naruto that he isn't the strongest and not to underestimate any one, even a "loser".

Peare 2004-01-05 13:25

I think he could have. Basically, IMO Rock could have beaten anyone there except for Gaara.

GreyArea 2004-01-05 13:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by pathyfinder
So discussing a subject with fellow Naruto fans to see what their opinion is must not be point enough for some. However, it's just about as pointless to state the obvious like "who knows". Sometimes speculation(s) are fun, I would take it that they are annoying to you. :confused:

Lee could do something that most could not, open several gates to obtain true and total power potential. Neji never saw, or perhaps even knew Lee could do that. Just like Neji underestimated Naruto's ability, and that thinking helps me to think that Lee could of kicked Neji's butt pretty good. Neji learned in his fight with Naruto that he isn't the strongest and not to underestimate any one, even a "loser".

Well, my only real problem with Vs threads (besides the fact they are against the rules, but thats another thing entirely) is that there usually isnt much of a discussion.

You usually get two groups standing on either side of the fence, throwing there own version of how the fight would go down across at each other.

No progression, and no discussion. Here's the problem:

Lets say they fought, in the preliminaries. At the start of the fight, Im pretty sure Neji would be able to keep up with Rocks speed, and slyly close some tenketsu while Lee was testing him.

Lee has to take his weights off cos he isnt getting anywhere, so now Neji has trouble keeping up with Lee. So he becomes more offensive and tries to land a few gentle fist blows.

Now.... would he be able to hit Lee? At all? Dunno. Would be be able to get him with the 64 Hands (he doesnt know Kaiten at this point, but I'd guess he does know the 64 hands of Hakke)? Would Lee do the Lotus before Neji closed all his tenketsu?

Would Neji underestimate Rock Lee (considering that he knows Lee a lot better than he knows Naruto)?

What else is there to say?

juri_miki 2004-01-05 14:39

:hmm: I am a Rock Lee fan, but why is that there are so many people going, "Yeah Rock Lee can beat everyone in the Narutoverse"? True that he was really fast, but like we all saw the situation where he had to take off those weights. Before the fight w/Gaara he never even took them off. He sure as hell didn't take them off for the Sound fight and there he was knocked out. Yes Lee is strong, but there's more to being a worthy opponent than just being able to be incredibly fast and strong and it also includes having some kind of smarts, battle smarts or whatever, which, I believe, Rock Lee lacks quite a bit of.

Maybe if Rock Lee had the chance to grow as a shinobi I believe that he would've become to the level of Gai sensei maybe even more, but I still don't believe that he would believe he's gonna be able to beat everyone.

Hunter 2004-01-05 14:54

Without the Gates, no way in hell.
With, well that depends.

If Lee's speed outmatch completely the vision of the Byakugan, Lee win.

If Neji is able to see him and to react with the Kaiten, Lee is dead meat because he don't have the eyes to see the counter and at this speed his body would have been crushed by the shock (btw only the anime say that Neji learn the Kaiten during the training's month, in the manga it's not the case).

Personally I think now that Neji is able to react to this kind of speed because
Spoiler:


In the same way he should be able to detect Lee even at the Gates's speed and thus to use the Kaiten.

Kyoji 2004-01-05 14:56

i think i'm getting confused?!?
did you just say semen?!

Kamui4356 2004-01-05 15:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyoji
i think i'm getting confused?!?
did you just say semen?!

Yup, it's a joke from the later chapters of the manga.
Spoiler:


edit: Neji vs Lee would be a close fight. If Lee goes right for the ura renge, which I suspect he would, Neji could let lee grab him, then counter with the kaiten. If Lee is smart and doesn't go right for the renge, it could go either way.

wnkryo 2004-01-05 15:13

Yes he would have beaten neji to a pulp. HAHAHA (to all you neji fans :p)

Byakugan 2004-01-05 15:14

Im not sure if he could have beaten neji probably yes but imo he could have beaten gaara had he kept knocking off the sand armor instead of finishing the combo so early also he shuld have finished it the way he finishes secondry lotus by slaming gaara (rapped up) on his head.

pathyfinder 2004-01-05 15:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sasuke Uchiha
In the Chuunin exams I mean...

I seriously think he could've, if Gaara hadn't gotten in the way of that. There were a few times during Gaara's fight where Neji could be seen as shocked/in awe that Rock was capable of that type of power...He obviously had no idea what type of power Rock had been saving up for their next fight.

Besides, how would Neji have been able to hit Rock if he couldn't see him?

Well, he doesn't exactly say "Vs." but the idea is there. I think "jr member Sasuke" here really wants to know what other fans think. If it is against the rules then report him and have the mods shut him down.

I agree that Neji really DID looked surpised by Lee's "power up" with Gaara. I don't think Neji knew Lee had it in him to do that seeing as Lee to him is just another "loser". If he never saw it he could of caught Neji.

I think the Kaiten would of shut Lee out. I don't know what Lee would of been able to do then. I don't belive Lee would of been caught by the 64 hands thing as Lee IS that fast to avoid it.

Naruto beat Neji when Neji was tired and spent and Naruto only got him with one good powered punch and he won. If Lee could of tired out Neji somehow (Neji does contain lots of chakra) and got in his rengan or something, Lee could win also.

OFFSPRiNGCo16 2004-01-05 15:51

I think with the gates its possible. Other then that Lee probably couldnt win. He even said it himself. I believe he said something along the lines that he has never beaten Neji and that the technique he was saving to use on him was the extreme lotus. Therefore, we can make the assumption without the gates, Lee has a very slim chance of winning.

Fast as light24 2004-01-05 16:02

I agree with Byakugen, if lee would have played it smart he could have beaten gaara, with that in mind, it all depends, if neji did try to hit his tenketsues, just for fun, he would probably lose....but I doubt it, I think lee would go straight for kickin his ass in the first ten seconds and not wasting time letting neji get close, prolly becasue he knows about his fighting style....so lee all the way

Vicious 2004-01-05 16:14

Yes, with the 5 Gates opened Lee could beat Neji to a pulp :)

Neji wouldn't be fast enough to evade Lee's attacks, not even the Kaiten would stop Lee's attacks. Lee's pretty much as strong and as fast as a Jounin with the 5 Gates opened :D

pathyfinder 2004-01-05 16:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hunter
Personally I think now that Neji is able to react to this kind of speed because
Spoiler:
In the same way he should be able to detect Lee even at the Gates's speed and thus to use the Kaiten.

I felt Neji's speed ability may of increased after his fight with Naruto in the exam. :) because (1) he learned not to underestimate anyone again (2) after the match and conversation with his uncle stated that he would try harder and grow (something to that affect) & (3) just simple maturity. It appears to me that these very young ninja's learn much knowledge & strength etc..., in just a match or two. :twitch:

Lee is not without fault obviously. He's no different than most ninja's in that he has limits. He knows that more than anyone, but feels that "his way" is usefull and should not be so EASILY dismissed. (as I'm sure Neji as well as others so often point out- time and time again :frustrated: )

Like Naruto he does have an element of deception. No one feels he is to be seriously taken as a worthy opponent thus he then can shock people with his speed more easily. A few could good well landed kicks and punches can work. (not on everyone) :D

Kakashi is an awesome guy as is Gai and Kabuto and the like. But Gai does feel that Lee can learn more and as these 12 year olds mature he might get some more tactical smarts about him.

G^^ra 2004-01-05 16:36

My vote goes to Rock Lee. After Naruto, Lee is the strongest genin.

GreyArea 2004-01-05 16:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by G^^ra
My vote goes to Rock Lee. After Naruto, Lee is the strongest genin.

Rock Lee disagrees with you, he said himself that Neji is the strongest.

And Hunter, you see Neji practising the Kaiten before the final Chuunin exam in the manga too, chapter 98. Although I suppose that doesnt mean he didnt know it before.

raikage 2004-01-05 18:03

Hm...Rock Lee vs Neji...

I hate to say it, but it depends...

*Assumption: Neji doesn't know Rock Lee can do the Ura Renge*

If Neji doesn't play around and finishes the fight quickly, then it goes to him.

If Neji does decide to have some fun (more likely scenario) and Rock has time to power up his Ura Renge, then he has a serious chance of winning.

Observed: Ura Renge puts the user in a state in which he feels no pain (snaps muscles off the bone, kept going)
Theory: Although the Kaiten can protect Neji from the first attack, it will not incapacitate Rock the way it would other ninjas

Observed: The Ura Renge gives the user a ridiculous amount of speed
Unknown: whether or not the Byakugan allows Neji to still see and react to said speed
Unknown: the 'cool-down' period for the Kaiten; maybe Rock can get in a hit right after completion of the first defense, maybe Neji can use another one right away
Theory: Rock will be moving too fast for Neji to be able to hit the tenketsus (which would shut down the extra chakra flowing into Rock's arms and legs, but probably kill him by forcing all that power into his torso)

Every impression in the manga shows that Neji learned the Kaiten before the finals.
There is just no way that someone could learn a level of that justu by himself without any guidance/assistance (which he didn't have).

About Rock not taking off his weights - that's because Gai told him not to. It's one of his trump cards - don't show your true speed unless it's a life-or-death situation (which Lee didn't believe it was with the Sound nins, which is him underestimating the enemy)


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