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-   -   [Manga] The nature of Orochimaru's Immortality jutsu and what it means for Sasuke (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=44731)

MysticNinjaJay 2007-03-25 12:36

[Manga] The nature of Orochimaru's Immortality jutsu and what it means for Sasuke
 
Since Orochimaru has been introduced there has been a major vocal point in the story around his immortality jutsu.

What we knew in the beginning according to the ANBU at the Chunnin exam is that Oro was believed to be dead.

Perhaps when he changed bodies he discarded the original.

Then during the battle with Sandaime he revealed his true form. Apparently when he takes a body the new body retains his physical charactistics such as his eyes and skin color but the hair and stature of the new body remains the same.

Oro then uses a jutsu to assume his original form. If he is hit too hard the skin of the jutsu peals (like the skin of a snake) like it did when Tsunade and Naruto hit him.

It was stated before that the jutsu is designed to anchor his mind to the world forever, which I take it to mean that he keeps himself alive by switching bodies, evading deth through aging.

Now with his attempt to obtain Sasuke we get a clearer picture of the ritual.

He can discard the body of his current container taking the form of a giant snake and then intoxicates his next container with venom which instigates the soul transfer jutsu.

This snake form, which Sasuke says is his "true" form and an experimentation on "his own body" implies that Oro has a biological presence in his host as well aside from his mind and soul residing there.

So he implants his mind, body and spirit into his host.

Kabuto called the dead snake a cast off skin.

My theory is that the venom once inhaled contains a virus that infects the body of the host at the cellular level allowing Oro to implant his genetic makeup into his host. He then casts a genjutsu into his host's mind and trap their soul within an alternate dimension while his mind takes over the body.

The souls of former hosts seem to travel along with him when he posseses a new host. They are permanently stuck in that alternate dimension.

When he is ready to leave his present body he tranforms the virus into the organic snake parasite and leaves the body as if casting it off like snake skin.

Since Sasuke is "in control" does that now mean that he has Oro's Immortality jutsu and the ability to possess hosts if he wishes to live forever?

It sounds reasonable although he seemed disgusted with Oro so I don't know if he would take advantage of it.

Syndicate 2007-03-25 13:09

not sure on if sasuke also knows it. Somehow i think oro might come back along the line.

Also i dunno if this technique oro performed is a jutsu that can be copyed maybe its bloodline related ??? who knows i havent put much thought in it ^^.

but since sasuke cancelled oros body transfer i'd say he knows the basics in how to perform it. only that sasuke doesnt have a venow :p

Medalist 2007-03-25 13:11

Sasuke , knows what he's doing....I have high doubts about the body transfer between oro and sasuke

tkdtiger 2007-03-25 13:48

Is Oro. dead or stuck within Sasuke? It seemed to me that in the manga Kabuto at first was like Sasuke killed Oro., but than it seemed as if Kabuto was saying that Oro. was imprisoned within Sasuke?

AvatarAlpha 2007-03-25 14:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by tkdtiger (Post 875921)
Is Oro. dead or stuck within Sasuke? It seemed to me that in the manga Kabuto at first was like Sasuke killed Oro., but than it seemed as if Kabuto was saying that Oro. was imprisoned within Sasuke?

I interpreted it as Oro being trapped within his own dimension which is not tethered to any body, thus allowing him to inhabit bodies. However, with Sharingan and sheer will Sasuke has now taken control of that dimension. It's the equivalent of Sasuke locking the dimensional door and only he has the keys to allow access. If Oro is going to escape he's going to have to figure out how to break or pick that lock, or steal the keys back. IMO Oro is not trapped within Sasuke as the transfer was never completed, theoritically I would propose that if Oro could bring any mind/body into his dimension he could transfer to a different body other than Sasuke's. Provided of course Sasuke couldn't prevent him. It just occurred to me that Oro's dimension seems to parallel the genie in the bottle... no Aladdin references please.

SpiRo 2007-03-25 15:00

If it is true that sasuke imprisoned Oro mind in himself .. then i guess Sasuke know everything that Oro know ..

but if Oro is dead .. then it is over ..

But we wont know it till something dont came up ..

tkdtiger 2007-03-25 15:06

So do you think Oro. will make another appearance?

SpiRo 2007-03-25 15:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by tkdtiger (Post 875990)
So do you think Oro. will make another appearance?

I rly dont know and i dont have any clue too ..

I would like to see Oro again becouse he is mighty fela .. i said in some other post i would like if Sasuke can summon Oro to fight by his side whenever he want ..

MysticNinjaJay 2007-03-25 23:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syndicate (Post 875887)
not sure on if sasuke also knows it. Somehow i think oro might come back along the line.

Also i dunno if this technique oro performed is a jutsu that can be copyed maybe its bloodline related ??? who knows i havent put much thought in it ^^.

but since sasuke cancelled oros body transfer i'd say he knows the basics in how to perform it. only that sasuke doesnt have a venow :p

Has anyone here watched the animated movie Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker?

If you have not don't read this post. :p


Well in it Joker implants Robin with a microchip that contains his personality and memory as well as his genetic code. When it is activated he is literally transformed into the Joker.

That's what I think Oro is able to do with his venom. Implant his genes that can form into the snake when he is ready to leave his host.

His hosts even show his physical characteristics when he uses his jutsu to appear like his original self.

As far as the Immortality jutsu is concerned, Oro is not dead and Sasuke is in control.

Oro was likely subdued by the demonic creatures Sasuke created and is likely asleep within that alternate dimension looking like his former containers.

Since he is spiritually connected to his containers (Oro told his last host that his feelings would reside in his sub-concious) and since Sasuke can use Sharingan to peer into someone's memory, Sasuke can likely obtain any knowledge he wants from Oro and the former hosts.


Quote:

Originally Posted by tkdtiger (Post 875990)
So do you think Oro. will make another appearance?

If he does my guess is that it will be because Sasuke overused his curse seal.

It was said by the Sound 4 that the more you use it the more it corrodes your body and binds your will to Oro, the creator of the jutsu.

I find it to be truly bizarre that Sasuke used the curse seal to help defeat Oro. I had thought that Oro could use it like the Hyuuga branch seal and that he did this to Anko but apperently not.

After defeating Naruto, the curse seal effected Sasuke and caused him to collapse. He was also cautious about using it too long during the battle.

Kishi could not have foregotten its significance because he made an entire arc with characters wiedling it and he is still drawing it on Sasuke's neck.

I think he is rushing the story a bit. I mean on top of neglecting Naruto's growth during training with Jiraiya he also did not remove Kakashi's evil surpressor seal which I think would be easy for Orochimaru to do.

If Oro returns I expect him to awaken because the curse seal gives him power over Sasuke, perhaps it will happen at a crucial moment in the story.

Otherwise I think Sasuke will be incharge for awhile.

amOKchen 2007-03-26 03:13

I really hope Orochimaru will survive somehow, he is one of my favorite characters :/

Justice Knight 2007-03-26 05:57

oro must come back,he died too fast like 2 chapters.....and also wat happen to the real kusanagi?

Syndicate 2007-03-26 06:20

just a question is that immortal jutsu technique or ability whatever it is a jutsu or something else because. because thats the only reason it would explain both itachi and sasuke being able to cancel it out.

On another note knowing sasuke trained under oro do you guys think he would have learned those forbidden technique like summoning the dead aka the 4th

xcad 2007-03-26 09:02

itz a genjutsu that oro uses first to take over the body. coz itachi and sasuke have the sharingan, they can cancel out the genjutsu. does this answer ur qn? i just stated a more general point..

MysticNinjaJay 2007-03-26 09:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syndicate (Post 876744)
On another note knowing sasuke trained under oro do you guys think he would have learned those forbidden technique like summoning the dead aka the 4th

Not only has Sasuke trained under Orochimaru and learned many special jutsu but he is now in possession of his soul and possibly all of his abilities, so yes I do think he is capable of using Edo Tensei.

But will he?

I doubt it, because it requires a sacrifice and Kishi seems to be trying not to taint Sasuke's heart with evil.

That's why he did not slaughter that army of ninja.

I expect Sasuke to turn back to the side of good eventually.

Syndicate 2007-03-26 09:10

so if its a gen jutsu everyone can use it? and is that venom only for a paralyzement of the person in question or some requirement

Quote:

Originally Posted by MysticNinjaJay (Post 876849)
Not only has Sasuke trained under Orochimaru and learned many special jutsu but he is now in possession of his soul and possibly all of his abilities, so yes I do think he is capable of using Edo Tensei.

But will he?

I doubt it, because it requires a sacrifice and Kishi seems to be trying not to taint Sasuke's heart with evil.

That's why he did not slaughter that army of ninja.

I expect Sasuke to turn back to the side of good eventually.

i think it would be interesting if he indeed used it. If kishi wants to make the show really great id see no problem with the sacrifice i dont know what kind of sacrifice but for summoning they also had to give some of their blood so who knows^^

SpiRo 2007-03-26 11:05

Nah, i think Sasuke even if he know that summon he wont do it .. he dont like games he will finish it as soon as possible

A.N.B.U 2007-03-26 11:19

oro is to sasuke as kyuubi is to naruto, notice that no one has yet stated out right that oro is dead, they all say he was defeated, or sasuke says he has taken over, i wouldnt be surprised from an upcoming appearence from oro when sasuke uses cursed seal which may weaken sasuke will and therefore weaken his hold on oros dimension

MysticNinjaJay 2007-03-26 11:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syndicate (Post 876850)
so if its a gen jutsu everyone can use it? and is that venom only for a paralyzement of the person in question or some requirement

It appears to be a genjutsu but we don't know what is required to use it. We do know that Sasori recruited Kabuto to gather information on the immortality jutsu.

We also know that Orochimaru conducted endless experiments on test subjects to complete the jutsu.

I do think the venom has something to do with the jutsu. It may have hypnotic agents that aid in allowing Oro to enter someone's mind.



Quote:

i think it would be interesting if he indeed used it. If kishi wants to make the show really great id see no problem with the sacrifice i dont know what kind of sacrifice but for summoning they also had to give some of their blood so who knows^^
If he does use Edo tensei I think the sacrifices will be someone evil, be they nameless or important to the story.

Gaara was able to become good because the only people he killed were villains and in self-defence.

Syndicate 2007-03-26 14:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by A.N.B.U (Post 876978)
oro is to sasuke as kyuubi is to naruto, notice that no one has yet stated out right that oro is dead, they all say he was defeated, or sasuke says he has taken over, i wouldnt be surprised from an upcoming appearence from oro when sasuke uses cursed seal which may weaken sasuke will and therefore weaken his hold on oros dimension

lol i bet people still is gonna say sharingan is the same as how kyuubi is to naruto. which i disagreed with.

I just hope kishi reveals some moreabout thus justu because its a bit vague and rushed if you ask me. There isnt much told about how indeed he was countered what specific element. And when oro comes back why/how it would be so that he comes back. I think its weird sasuke doenst even investigates more about this jutsu to see if he can permanently remove oro.

cuttups 2007-03-26 18:07

I wonder what Orochimaru's prison world is like from the point of view of the people trapt in it. Are they awake and watching what is going on or are they completely shut down.

Now that we have seen Sasuke going into Naruto's inner world, I wonder if Naruto will ever enter Sasuke's newly aquired world. It would be interesting to see the show go in the direction of fighting on a more spiritual level. Where the bodies don't actually fight but the souls do.

It would take a lot of explaining.


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