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-   -   AE Karaoke (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=46599)

pichu 2007-04-28 00:23

AE Karaoke
 
NEW - AFX KRK Automater/Templater.

Downloads and Instructions:

http://code.google.com/p/aftereffectskrk/

Discussion:

Here or

#gwi-afx @ irc.rizon.net

Talk to pichu.

Features:
  • In-Composition Coding for the generator: you do not need to do anything outside of the Project.
  • The .ass timings are first converted into JSON, and have the data stored in the project. This way, no external files will be necessary.
  • Keyframes renormalizations: you will be able to design the Karaoke visually.
  • Property Based animations: It can be excluded from text animators. Only requirement is that you do ON/OFF or BEFORE/ON/AFTER Syllable effects (see a section of how-to). And this works the best if you do syllable per layer automater. Without lead-ins or lead-outs transitions, it is possible to apply this as line per layer effects. Cool, no? (which is under my original proposal)
  • Syllable per Layer Capability
  • No-presets, nothing: the outcome depends how good you can design a karaoke!
  • Easy-to-script, and minimal coding
  • Syllable and line positioning with expressions
  • Two Karaoke styles (Romaji\nKanji) in one layer is workable: .l( "romaji" , {2:"kanji"} )
  • Word effect with "Spacing" controls. Note, it adds an empty space to every syllable and you can adjust it to make them as close as possible with a slider control from main template layer to all of the layers.
  • Run once, and done! You do not need to do anything after processing. You can, however, but those work needs to be separate out. (i.e. store into another Composition or precompose)

Notes:

You can copy and paste the JSON into the source text or source text's expression. Since the expression has a limit to how much stuff you can fit in, you might want to paste to the source text. If you do not have a lot of memory (say under 1GB), then you might want to HIDE that text layer, double click the text layer, and hit CTRL-V to paste it there. Always, make sure your expression is set to not evaluated (= is checked off)

Finally, Enjoy the script.

ORIGINAL POST:

Quote:

I wonder how many people would like to make AE karaoke instead of the traditional SSA karaoke. I have seen a couple of SSA importers, but they're quite lacking. The reason is that they all use text Animators. Text Animation is great for speed and quick effects (like simple glows and blurs and combinations of path and styles), but when comes to advanced and complex effects, you can't do much with it. (like perspective, particles/explosions, flares, lights, etc)

Here's my proposition, I'm willing to rewrite my scripts to the public with full documentation, so that it's easy to use and you can do all sort of advanced effects with it. All I need from you are suggestions. And you probably need some basic knowledge of javascript to use it unless I've decided to create a separate GUI application for that. All you need is Adobe After Effects 7.0 Pro and a powerful system that can handle hundreds of AE layers. (the non-pro version doesn't support scripting)

And, I'd like to see some of the impressive karaokes, which is why I've decided to publicize this. :)

NoSanninWa 2007-04-28 00:40

Oh dear god please save us from impressive karaoke! Please just let me watch the OP without having to be distracted by perspective, particles/explosions, flares, lights, etc.

jpwong 2007-04-28 00:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoSanninWa (Post 923308)
Oh dear god please save us from impressive karaoke! Please just let me watch the OP without having to be distracted by perspective, particles/explosions, flares, lights, etc.

I tend to agree, some of the intros these days are becoming really tacky with all the bending and exploding text.

Not that it can't be done nicely, I've seen some very nice AE intros that don't pull away from the actual OP. But I don't think a lot of these shows need over the top text effects, some of the really nice OPs I've seen just involve asthetic choices of fonts and colours and things that can be done using SSA or ASS scripts.

Quarkboy 2007-04-28 02:03

Don't forget that a well done importation script would have uses outside of fansubbing. Karaoke scripts could be used for music videos, or for that matter, actual KARAOKE :).

Fault the people who misuse the script to create hideous inappropriate effects, not the smart people who come up with the intelligent importation scripts.

Harukalover 2007-04-28 02:42

Yuck... we got enough ugly over the top karaokes that seem to just be a new way to gain e-penis points as it is...

A karaoke's point should be for aided singing of the song and/or to blend in and give a nice addition to a show's OP/ED. It shouldn't be there to take away from the OP/ED animation or to show off your supposed skills.

dj_tjerk 2007-04-28 04:42

I agree that text animators are somewhat limiting, especially when you want an effect to last for a certain amount of time (say 0.5s for any displacement). You need to do layer per syllable for that, just like you need to with .ass karaoke.

For not too fancy particle stuff, there isnt any need to write a script to do that all for you. Just copy all the text layers, place them in a precomp, use it as emitter for one (yes one) solid with Trapcode particular. Fancier particle stuff can be done with layer per syllable (but i already described all this in a post in the karaoke help thread).

Though i really like to see how your script will look like (with fancy GUI and stuff), i guess the english fansub world isn't really interested. You should try contacting some brazilian fansubbers, as they seem to be the ones that are actually interested in using AE for karaoke (like making a hand write the syllables as they're being sung :D Must be something with path's and stuff.. haven't really tried). The english fansub world seems to care more about using .ass karaoke, which can be over-the-top and flashy too with aegisub's automation. (everybody knows that a quality fansub is all about flashy over-the-top karaoke :p )

So I don't really agree with the people above me , AE karaoke can be very nice and fitting to the song, in such a way that it actually makes the song better (but that goes for every karaoke), and a good script can help with that. It's not as if AE karaoke is always fancy and over-the-top. I just like working with AE, being able to preview and easily change values by hand.

[darkfire] 2007-04-30 12:37

Well I would like to see it. I like ae karaoke. They don't have to be over the top. And its best for particle effects. Yah you can do it in ass. But 5 hours encoding ops is not my favorite thing.

Medalist 2007-05-01 16:56

The SD Project op karaoke they did for Naruto Shippuden...was over the top...and that's where I draw the line "under"(not sure if that made sense.) but seeing that karaoke just, wow, showed me how much AE can be overly abused for unneccesary effects.

xxanimefan4_ever 2007-05-01 17:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uchikatsu (Post 928465)
The SD Project op karaoke they did for Naruto Shippuden...was over the top...and that's where I draw the line "under"(not sure if that made sense.) but seeing that karaoke just, wow, showed me how much AE can be overly abused for unneccesary effects.

found on youtube
it's over the top the fire effect thing it just gets annoying but I guess it's not that bad cause it's in the black bar section

dj_tjerk 2007-05-01 17:58

What's over-the-top about that? I can still see the original OP :D There have been kara where syllables (or particles) fly through half the screen before they disappear.. And those weird, well.. fountains? I guess they're quite random, i'd have liked them to emit on the beat or rhytm (plz correct me if i'm wrong here :P)

Quarkboy 2007-05-01 19:06

Um, ew. Over the top or not, it's just not particularly interesting, and far too "busy" for my taste, especially the "flares".

Actually, when I look at that, I don't think that the text was done with afx. ONly the particle stuff was afx, and the karaoke itself is all stuff that's easily done with ass scripts. It might have been afx, but I doubt it.

Harukalover 2007-05-01 19:18

The only good thing about that karaoke is that it only takes up the black borders of the video. Which allows anyone who actually wants to archive that release the ability to crop off that karaoke.

Soulfang 2007-05-01 20:10

It wasn't AE at all. It's all TextSub. :D

Quarkboy 2007-05-01 20:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soulfang (Post 928662)
It wasn't AE at all. It's all TextSub. :D

Oh yeah, I called it. See?

This just proves the point:

The tool doesn't make bad karaoke. The karaokeer makes bad karaoke.

(Wait, I think I just used the "guns don't kill people, people kill people" argument? Crap. I'm totally against guns)

Blue_Mage 2007-05-01 22:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quarkboy (Post 928674)
Oh yeah, I called it. See?

This just proves the point:

The tool doesn't make bad karaoke. The karaokeer makes bad karaoke.

(Wait, I think I just used the "guns don't kill people, people kill people" argument? Crap. I'm totally against guns)

But the analogy can be extended (and don't we all just love an extended metaphor?). Guns are more likely to be used to kill people. There are certain karaoke tools that are simply more likely to be used to create overdone and overly flashy karaoke effects simply because that's what they're geared towards.

One doesn't have to use AE to create a set of effects that most people find excessive. It's just that more people seem to do so because it's that much easier to do.

Guns don't kill people. People kill people. It's just a lot easier to do it with a gun than with a wet noodle.

Quarkboy 2007-05-01 23:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue_Mage (Post 928841)
But the analogy can be extended (and don't we all just love an extended metaphor?). Guns are more likely to be used to kill people. There are certain karaoke tools that are simply more likely to be used to create overdone and overly flashy karaoke effects simply because that's what they're geared towards.

One doesn't have to use AE to create a set of effects that most people find excessive. It's just that more people seem to do so because it's that much easier to do.

Guns don't kill people. People kill people. It's just a lot easier to do it with a gun than with a wet noodle.

Well, let's say this then: srt = wet noodle, ass = pistol, afx = assault weapon/semi-automatic

Perhaps I'm inclined to like afx for karaoke because it's really DESIGNED for that sort of thing. the ass or ssa standard was never designed for complex animated effects, and all these complex scripting solutions are, in effect, hideous hacks on a syntax that is too basic for the application. Just look at the render times. So, while it's true that afx allows more complex (and therefore, more easily abused) effect work, it's also simply the more appropriate tool to use to begin with. Forcing people to use ass for karaoke is like driving with the brake on to prevent you from going too fast. It's better to just set speed limits and give people tickets when they go too fast :).

cyth 2007-05-02 03:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quarkboy (Post 928674)
The tool doesn't make bad karaoke. The karaokeer makes bad karaoke.

This pretty much sums it up. It's always nice to have more options, more tools to choose from. I can easily compare the number of bad complex karaoke to the number of bad simple karaoke I've seen, simply because the most important thing when making karaoke isn't the use of effects, but styling choices. Granted, a karaoke'r can screw up good styling with a totally inappropriate effect, especially if he/she isn't the stylist, but even the people that like to keep things simple (even with simple \k effects, or no effects) can take styling choices too lightly, or they don't have a big enough font library to choose from, or they just don't have the touch when it comes to setting font sizes and colours. What I'm trying to say is that effects choices should compliment styling choices, first and foremost. Tools don't matter as long as the karaoke'r does his magic in the right state of mind.

shinjipierre 2007-05-02 06:53

Quote:

I have seen a couple of SSA importers, but they're quite lacking. The reason is that they all use text Animators. Text Animation is great for speed and quick effects (like simple glows and blurs and combinations of path and styles), but when comes to advanced and complex effects, you can't do much with it. (like perspective, particles/explosions, flares, lights, etc)
mmm... I think that you lack knowledge of after effects as well... like most fansubbers...

But... as for "perspective"... it has been added in after effects CS3 in the text animation, we just have to wait in july.
And I don't understand why we wouldn't be able to do particles, flares, lights and all with what we already have. (I've already done that...)

I think you're just trying to reinvent the wheel with a weird script... What would one do with 100 layers of text... it's not really useful, one would have to make expressions everywhere... Remember that after effects isn't a coder application, it has been designed for computer graphists :)

Anyway, if you think you can do something better than the text animator...

Shinjipierre

dj_tjerk 2007-05-02 14:35

hmm.. I'd have to come back on my words.. I just edited 'my' script so that I need only 1 layer for a fixed length animation (like.. instant max, within 2 seconds back to zero). Of course it was possible with layer per syllable, but a plus about working with AE is that you can see what you're doing (so no 100's of layers), so i never (cough) did that before.

Anyway, here's the video (part of noein OP, my test .ass file :p), a picture of how the expression (generated with for-loop in script) looks like, and the .aep project file for people with AE so they can see the whole expression.

I seriously hope more people would give AE a try now :p

(the expression looks more difficult than it is, and don't kill me shinji for using an expression instead of keyframes.. that's just impossible :D)

martino 2007-05-02 15:30

I want to... I just need some free time and some kind of resources which could get me somehow started.


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