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toru310 2007-06-22 23:28

My pc is fixed but still need suggestions
 
Well after buying a new power supply and a ram...

I came to think of this things

How can a power supply fail?
How can a ram fail?
How can a mother board fail?

Well because after I went to the computer shop and let the techies do that work I noticed that he's like dropping the ram like its nothing..not on the floor but on the table..with that alone can damage the ram and lower its durability and life span??

They didn't have the memtest so I'm once again alone with figuring this thing out again..Oh yeah I noticed that the memtest website changed...

Furuno 2007-06-22 23:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Migufuchi Fusutsu (Post 1007209)
How can a power supply fail?

If it's overheated or exposed to excessive electric shock (short contact, lightning). To prevent it simply use some voltage stabilizer and make sure your power supply cooling is optimal (standard fan usually enough for normal usage, while i need 3 fan because of PC abusing in non AC room lol)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Migufuchi Fusutsu (Post 1007209)
How can a ram fail?

Same like above. Age also can affect the chips performance

Quote:

Originally Posted by Migufuchi Fusutsu (Post 1007209)
How can a mother board fail?

The same as RAM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Migufuchi Fusutsu (Post 1007209)
Well because after I went to the computer shop and let the techies do that work I noticed that he's like dropping the ram like its nothing..not on the floor but on the table..with that alone can damage the ram and lower its durability and life span??

I guess electronic parts without moving parts is OK to endure some impact AS LONG AS the silicon wafer and all things inside is still intact. But for electronic parts with moving parts such as harddisk, it'll cause some problem rangin from data damage to hardware damage.

Zero Shinohara 2007-06-23 00:01

Well, I really wouldn't recommend dropping your ram on the table. It either may or may not cause harm, but you never know, so I'd rather take it through the safer route.

Another thing that can harm most hardware components is magnetism and electromagnetic fields - that's why your HDs and Mobos come in magnetism-proof material. And that's also why you need to touch a piece of metal like your case, for example, to remove any charges you have in your body.

Dust is another factor, not by the dust itself, but because it serves as storage for heat and it'll glue down some components and rend them useless ( fans and the sort ), so constant cleaning and dust removal is really recommended.

But next time you see'em throwing your ram around, ask him if he'll replace it for free if it breaks. He'll stop it in no time.

toru310 2007-06-23 00:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by furuno (Post 1007237)
If it's overheated or exposed to excessive electric shock (short contact, lightning). To prevent it simply use some voltage stabilizer and make sure your power supply cooling is optimal (standard fan usually enough for normal usage, while i need 3 fan because of PC abusing in non AC room lol)


Same like above. Age also can affect the chips performance


The same as RAM


I guess electronic parts without moving parts is OK to endure some impact AS LONG AS the silicon wafer and all things inside is still intact. But for electronic parts with moving parts such as harddisk, it'll cause some problem rangin from data damage to hardware damage.

Well he didn't drop it like vertical he kind of dropped it diagonally..anyways I'll post a video of how he dropped it..but for now...ouch my new ram..

ImClueless 2007-06-23 02:16

It is very possible that the reason your RAM failed was because your PSU failed. In its dying breaths the PSU might have delivered voltage that was too high and fried your RAM. The same applies to pretty much all the components. This happened to me since heat stress took out my PSU which in turn took out the mobo and cpu.

And yes that tech dropping your RAM isn't being very professional.

toru310 2007-06-23 03:17

Does anyone know how to get memtest I forgot...I need it to test my ram...

Furuno 2007-06-23 04:38

Try some benchmarking software such as 3DMark or sort...

Oh, i forgot to say this, next time when that guy throws your ram or something else just throw him out of the window... lol...

toru310 2007-06-23 05:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by furuno (Post 1007530)
Try some benchmarking software such as 3DMark or sort...

Oh, i forgot to say this, next time when that guy throws your ram or something else just throw him out of the window... lol...

I was planning to but his so un approachable..I mean when ever I say something he does not listen...and he works snappily I mean his banging all the wires all over the case...and that made my life span half..>_<

Furuno 2007-06-23 06:01

Well then just go to another shop...

hobbes_fan 2007-06-23 06:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by furuno (Post 1007614)
Well then just go to another shop...

Signed on this. Put it this way, if he is bashing and treating your stuff shoddily in front of you, imagine what he's doing when you're not looking. Remember it is your PC, your money, you/parents/someone worked hard for that money. If he wants to treat you poorly/not look after your gear take your money elsewhere. (PS learn how do this stuff yourself, it really isn't that hard as long as you have patience and get good info)

My background isn't so much in PC's but in electronics so take what I say with a grain of salt. PSU's are also hardworking parts in your PC, but they do have a lifespan. They're always on, they don't really get a rest unless its switched off. They generate heat, require adequate cooling, dust can build up and make cooling less efficient putting greater strain on the parts. Excessive heat in general has a negative effect on your PC. Also asking it to do too much is almost guaranteed to kill your PSU very quickly if the PSU can't produce enough voltage or is pushed to its absolute limits (eg indiscriminate overclocking of CPU's and Video cards.)

Calculate how much power your pc components require
PCI cards
Videocards
HDD's
CPU
DVD driver
Fans/cooling
RAM
USB powered devices.

Most people I've dealt with when I built my PC and brother's PC told me to buy a PSU with 40% more power than what the total voltage use is, just to give my self a little headroom and not max out the PSU.

Ledgem 2007-06-23 11:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by hobbes_fan (Post 1007652)
(PS learn how do this stuff yourself, it really isn't that hard as long as you have patience and get good info)

That one gets my personal mark of approval. It isn't hard, it's just incredibly frightening at first. I think almost all of us go into working with computers thinking that they're more delicate than a set of dishes. I spent an hour or more the first time I installed a new stick of RAM, because I was terrified that the amount of force required to secure the RAM into its slot would split the motherboard in half. Above all, be smart and exercise the bare precautions regarding static discharge, be relatively gentle, and go experiment. Unless you're known to break things unintentionally, you'll learn a lot and probably won't damage anything.

Quote:

PSU's are also hardworking parts in your PC, but they do have a lifespan. They're always on, they don't really get a rest unless its switched off. They generate heat, require adequate cooling, dust can build up and make cooling less efficient putting greater strain on the parts. Excessive heat in general has a negative effect on your PC. Also asking it to do too much is almost guaranteed to kill your PSU very quickly if the PSU can't produce enough voltage or is pushed to its absolute limits (eg indiscriminate overclocking of CPU's and Video cards.)
I wish you'd chosen different wording in this one; Migufuchi Fusutsu is big on not straining his components and giving them a rest, to an unnecessary degree. I know what you're saying and I agree with you, but I do want to counteract this and say that the PSU does not need a rest! Like every other component in your system, it experiences its highest state of stress when it is powered on after being off. All PSUs are rated for a certain lifetime (given in operational hours), but if you calculate it out, it's usually at least a solid four years. If you turn your computer off at night, that's fine; if you turn it on and off many times during the day, nothing terrible should happen, either. But please, don't go powering it off "to give it a rest"! It won't file a lawsuit against you for harsh working conditions, honest.

The advice given about choosing one with a higher power rating than what you need is good. It gives you room to expand, as well as a higher safety frame. But more importantly, research PSUs before buying - do not base your decision off of the power rating alone! I say this because I've read reviews where higher-rated PSUs were unable to provide the power advertised, and fared even worse than lower-rated PSUs. Usually, it's a matter of cheaper PSUs vs. more expensive PSUs, but that isn't always the case. It pays to research which companies are good, and to go with them. Even if it costs more money, the PSU is such a vital part of your system that you really owe it to yourself to do so. The advice that I've heard is to go with the PSU that feels heavier (assuming a comparison between PSUs of the same power rating). I do my orders online, so I can't do the heft test, nor can I verify that it's good advice. In a way, it does make sense, though.

hobbes_fan 2007-06-23 14:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ledgem (Post 1007929)
The advice given about choosing one with a higher power rating than what you need is good. It gives you room to expand, as well as a higher safety frame. But more importantly, research PSUs before buying - do not base your decision off of the power rating alone! I say this because I've read reviews where higher-rated PSUs were unable to provide the power advertised, and fared even worse than lower-rated PSUs. Usually, it's a matter of cheaper PSUs vs. more expensive PSUs, but that isn't always the case. It pays to research which companies are good, and to go with them. Even if it costs more money, the PSU is such a vital part of your system that you really owe it to yourself to do so. The advice that I've heard is to go with the PSU that feels heavier (assuming a comparison between PSUs of the same power rating). I do my orders online, so I can't do the heft test, nor can I verify that it's good advice. In a way, it does make sense, though.

I knew I'd get crucified for wording it so poorly. :D It's like a car: Highway driving vs City Driving. 100k km of highway driving is far easier on your engine than 100k km of city driving. Just don;t redline it for sustained periods.

Here's an interesting article about PSU's and the Manufacturer's blurb vs Real world performance. It's scary. Lengthy but very interesting. I have a Thermal take PSU, the xp550(I used newegg reviews but they don't go into enough detail. I will be using tomshardware.com and xbitlabs.com for reviews from now on)

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/oth...u-roundup.html

Of particular note are the XP480 and TR2 XP550. Considering this I will never buy another Thermaltake PSU again. I'd probably go Antec or CoolerMaster as most detailed reviews I've seen, their claimed performance isn't as greatly exaggerated.

Now I got lucky because of I got good advice. I'd already calculated the total power requirements of my PC gear and added 10% plus the 40% I was advised. The PSU can handle 300-320w in reality, my stuff needed roughly 220w. I've done some light overclocking so it's more like 240w. Thankfully I had the common sense to buy the "430w" over the "380w" model for an extra $5. (And thankfully AMD dual core's are pretty light on voltage)

here's the calculator I used but there's a more detailed one somewhere, I use a lot of USB powered devices such as bluetooth/external HDD's and had to estmate as this doesn't go into that much detail
http://web.aanet.com.au/SnooP/psucalc.php

Zero Shinohara 2007-06-23 17:40

@hobbes_fan

Woot, thanks for the calculator, really appreciated :D

Phew, seems like I'm still pretty good with my CoolerMaster 680W psu. Says here I need a 544 one... rofl, maybe that's the reason my energy bills have been going up lately... good thing I can blame it on the A/C :D

Jinto 2007-06-23 17:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zero Shinohara (Post 1007248)
Another thing that can harm most hardware components is magnetism and electromagnetic fields - that's why your HDs and Mobos come in magnetism-proof material. And that's also why you need to touch a piece of metal like your case, for example, to remove any charges you have in your body.

I suppose you chose the wrong example to explain anti-magnetic. Since what you describe are anti-static packing material. Afaik there is no such thing like anti-magnetic packing material.
Touching the metal of the PC would not prevent magnetic fields either, it just brings one on the same level potential wise.

Sorry, but I had this urgent feeling to correct this part :heh:

toru310 2007-06-23 21:28

Quote:

I wish you'd chosen different wording in this one; Migufuchi Fusutsu is big on not straining his components and giving them a rest, to an unnecessary degree. I know what you're saying and I agree with you, but I do want to counteract this and say that the PSU does not need a rest! Like every other component in your system, it experiences its highest state of stress when it is powered on after being off. All PSUs are rated for a certain lifetime (given in operational hours), but if you calculate it out, it's usually at least a solid four years. If you turn your computer off at night, that's fine; if you turn it on and off many times during the day, nothing terrible should happen, either. But please, don't go powering it off "to give it a rest"! It won't file a lawsuit against you for harsh working conditions, honest.
I always rest my pc 8hrs a day and there was just a blackout before and maybe that lead to my PSU's death.

Anyways this is how the tech dropped my ram..I reenact it..but its kind of like that..
http://youtube.com/watch?v=0aEg9BhZ26Q (my first video yeah!) can that alone can damage the ram?? I know It looked stupid..hehe

This is the before and after..(anyways)


1month of no anime was hell.. :(

hobbes_fan 2007-06-24 01:46

the odds of power surge damage just went up. (unless you already have some surge protection). as for the vid, that's not too bad, there shouldn't be any damage. But still that's not how you treat precision electronics.

PS I hope that wasn't the new one

toru310 2007-06-24 02:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by hobbes_fan (Post 1008742)
the odds of power surge damage just went up. (unless you already have some surge protection). as for the vid, that's not too bad, there shouldn't be any damage. But still that's not how you treat precision electronics.

PS I hope that wasn't the new one

Well after that incident I bought an outlet with power surge protector and breaker so that it can lessen the chance of damage...and yes the one that tech dropped was a new one ouch!!!(as for the vid thats nothing thats not even mine I just want to show how that guy dropped the ram so that I can know what damages that will give) I've been spendin my lunch money and then that guy just drops my stuff..

hobbes_fan 2007-06-24 02:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zero Shinohara (Post 1008243)
@hobbes_fan

Woot, thanks for the calculator, really appreciated :D

Phew, seems like I'm still pretty good with my CoolerMaster 680W psu. Says here I need a 544 one... rofl, maybe that's the reason my energy bills have been going up lately... good thing I can blame it on the A/C :D

did you read ths link? Near the bottm of the PSU calc? http://www.overclockers.com.au/wiki/..._Supply_Makers

coolermaster generally doesn't exaggerate their wattage ratings.

toru310 2007-06-24 02:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by hobbes_fan (Post 1008806)
did you read ths link? Near the bottm of the PSU calc? http://www.overclockers.com.au/wiki/..._Supply_Makers

coolermaster generally doesn't exaggerate their wattage ratings.

Can you tutor me a little with the calculator? because I'll be upgrading in the future I'll be removing my old burner and putting a new dvd burner and a dvd rom, a card reader, a nvidia 7300GT plugging a external Hard drive..

hobbes_fan 2007-06-24 04:34

Burners are pretty much the same in terms of power usage, so you only have to account for the additional one your putting in. There is a slight difference between SATA and IDE but its negligible. 30w for each drive is a generous estimate
I have a ECS 7300gt as well, from what I recall it needs around 100w-120w or so, (this is at peak performance). Usually manufacturers recomend a PSU of 350W or more, if you plan on using a Nvidia 7series.
Card reader? Is it a PCI or a USB one? Doesn't really make a difference as a generous estimate would be 10w Max. (More like 3or4w in reality but better to over estimate than under).
External HDD? Is it powered by the USB (usually 2.5") or is it powered by mains power? (usually 3.5"). If it's mains powered you don't need to take it into account as it doesn't draw power from your PSU. But again if it's powered by USB it's not going to take a lot of wattage to power that thing. 5-10w max.

But for a more accurate estimate check your PM.


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