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NoSanninWa 2007-08-14 01:03

This thread is the place to discuss Raki's character and his role on the show. It is a place to discuss his relationship with Clare and even the chance that he might become Helen's boy toy. It is not a Raki hate thread.

It is pointless to post merely to say that you dislike Raki and will only cause your post to be deleted. If you have specific complaints about his character or his role in this story, then please express your reasons coherently. Only that way can we have a discussion. Otherwise we just have two camps yelling at each other without listening.

maian330 2007-08-14 01:03

The Raki discussion
 
Raki would be a great character in a school drama. In a dark fantasy though, Raki is just an (unfortunately) necessary nuisance. As I said before, kids don't have a place on the battlefield.

I do find it pretty interesting that most people would go a lot easier on Raki if he were a girl. Says something about our stereotypes :)

Twisted Reality 2007-08-14 11:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by maian330 (Post 1094287)
Raki would be a great character in a school drama. In a dark fantasy though, Raki is just an (unfortunately) necessary nuisance. As I said before, kids don't have a place on the battlefield.

I do find it pretty interesting that most people would go a lot easier on Raki if he were a girl. Says something about our stereotypes :)

To the first: What's wrong with war orphans or useless kids growing up in a dark fantasy world? It worked for Berserk. A large part of the cast of Berserk is pretty much composed of war orphans or downtrodden peasants living in the face of oppression, famine, disease and the supernatural.

Raki is just plain underdeveloped. This is the Claymores' show anyway. Do you see villagers do anything other than stand in their quaint little town-squares and gawk at the Claymores entering town? No?

I mean it's pretty funny that the first "Northern City" we see is just the same rustic town with a lot of snow -- and the gawkers stand around in parkas instead. Nothing distinguishes one rustic town plopped into the middle of the wilderness from another rustic town plopped in the middle of the wilderness.

Point is: Human civilization gets no attention. Raki is just a two-dimensional representative of a two-dimensional world. Even for a lack of world-building, the plight of the ordinary Joe just isn't paid attention to.

To the second: Meh. I personally think the whole Raki-hating is overplayed. He's somewhat annoying, but for the most part he's so undeveloped that he's beneath my attention. I think people are pretending to be more outraged than they are.

Personally I would probably be harder on Raki if he were some helpless and delicate moe-girl. That's probably Priscilla's role anyway.

Cruel 2007-08-14 13:08

Well of course, Raki is an important character and I'm hoping he gets stronger as well. But, right now I just hope he doesn't follow Clare anymore.

I'm hoping Raki falls in love with Priscilla and Isely makes him some kind of Yoma/Claymore. I'm then thinking that Clare might have to be the one to kill him in the end. Just my thoughts! : P

Anh_Minh 2007-08-14 13:29

Raki and Clare fighting to the death, with tears streaming down their faces, screaming each other's names... Don't you think it's been overplayed?

Also, for Raki to side with Priscilla, you'd either have to convince Raki that eating people (like his family was eaten) is OK, or you'd have to make him Awaken, which would take away much of the drama, since, even though it'd hurt, Clare would know he has to be killed.

maian330 2007-08-14 14:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twisted Reality (Post 1094967)
What's wrong with war orphans or useless kids growing up in a dark fantasy world? It worked for Berserk. A large part of the cast of Berserk is pretty much composed of war orphans or downtrodden peasants living in the face of oppression, famine, disease and the supernatural.

Raki is just plain underdeveloped. This is the Claymores' show anyway. Do you see villagers do anything other than stand in their quaint little town-squares and gawk at the Claymores entering town? No?

I mean it's pretty funny that the first "Northern City" we see is just the same rustic town with a lot of snow -- and the gawkers stand around in parkas instead. Nothing distinguishes one rustic town plopped into the middle of the wilderness from another rustic town plopped in the middle of the wilderness.

Point is: Human civilization gets no attention. Raki is just a two-dimensional representative of a two-dimensional world. Even for a lack of world-building, the plight of the ordinary Joe just isn't paid attention to.

That's a good point. But I still wish Raki were at least a teenager, already somewhat hardened by the world yet still retaining his ideals. At the very least, he'd whine a lot less.

I say all this "kids don't have a place in the battlefield" stuff, because I'm distinctly reminded of John Steinbeck's novel The Pearl. In that story, a family is being chased by some pursuers. The mother and her baby try to hide, but the baby cries, attracting the pursuers' attention, leading to their deaths. There are countless other stories that go along the same lines - children inadvertently causing disaster. I see Raki doing almost the same thing at times. Imagine what would've happened if Clare actually did awaken in Rabona - that would've been a disaster that Raki would be partially responsible for.

So all we can rely on is the fact that he's a plot device and that Clare's the main character, so his actions shouldn't inadvertently kill Clare, but who knows what the next stupid thing he'll do is... And hopefully, he'll finally grow up to be a fine man.

xVxObliVioNxVx 2007-08-14 15:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twisted Reality (Post 1094967)
Raki is just plain underdeveloped. This is the Claymores' show anyway. Do you see villagers do anything other than stand in their quaint little town-squares and gawk at the Claymores entering town? No?

Hmm, how is Raki underdeveloped? So far in the storyline he is the second most developed character in Claymore. And him and Clare are the only characters that have shown any growth and further character development in the storyline.

PGilis 2007-08-14 15:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh (Post 1095072)
Raki and Clare fighting to the death, with tears streaming down their faces, screaming each other's names... Don't you think it's been overplayed?

Yeah. That will never happens. And even if such scenario ever happens, Raki would just realize what he became and let Clare kill him or just killing himself, that way fullfilling the promise he made to Clare, of protect her someday.

But i think such scenario would be very similar to Ophelia's death.

Twisted Reality 2007-08-16 03:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by xVxObliVioNxVx (Post 1095216)
Hmm, how is Raki underdeveloped? So far in the storyline he is the second most developed character in Claymore. And him and Clare are the only characters that have shown any growth and further character development in the storyline.

Even minor Claymore characters get way more development. The author lavishes so much attention on each Claymore. He even sometimes even goes lengths emphasizing how their "special ability" is result of their personality and attitudes. Theresa achieves a catharsis. Irene achieves a catharsis. Ophelia was around for one episode and achieved a resolution in conflict. Priscilla winds up driving the conflict of both the Theresa arc and creates more conflict as one of Clare's antagonists.

Raki is just cook who isn't really all that able to defend Clare that well. He never had to doubt why he's protecting Clare, so we never get to see his motivations in-depth. And there's no conflict so far that I've seen that really forces him to grow. And if the author really wanted to go into detail about Raki, he'd spend more time focusing on the human world instead of the Claymore one.

PGilis 2007-08-16 09:53

Do we really got to see ANYONE in this series who never got need of help? :heh:

Clare was saved plenty of times; the fab-four Miria, Deneve and Helen too were saved against that male A.O., Jean was saved by Clare with the help of Galatea, and even Galatea was saved by Jean and Clare after that. Heck, even the most BADASS character in the Claymore world so far, Teresa, was saved by loli-Clare from the one-armed-dude!!

So far, Raki is the most developed HUMAN character in the Claymore world. No one else has better explanation. We don't even know anything about the members of the Organization besides some names.

Besides, we never got to see more development on Raki because he never changed his main objetive of life: Stay with Clare. But he discovered he need strenght to do that. Tha's why he's pushing himself to get stronger, walking all alone.

Funny enough, that's in a way the same objetive of Teresa in episodes 6-8, but i never saw anyone calling her underdeveloped. :p

xVxObliVioNxVx 2007-08-16 16:25

You made some great points there PGilis! But allow me to further clarify how much developed Raki is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twisted Reality (Post 1097753)
Even minor Claymore characters get way more development. The author lavishes so much attention on each Claymore. He even sometimes even goes lengths emphasizing how their "special ability" is result of their personality and attitudes. Theresa achieves a catharsis. Irene achieves a catharsis. Ophelia was around for one episode and achieved a resolution in conflict. Priscilla winds up driving the conflict of both the Theresa arc and creates more conflict as one of Clare's antagonists.

Raki is just cook who isn't really all that able to defend Clare that well. He never had to doubt why he's protecting Clare, so we never get to see his motivations in-depth. And there's no conflict so far that I've seen that really forces him to grow. And if the author really wanted to go into detail about Raki, he'd spend more time focusing on the human world instead of the Claymore one.

I have to respectfully disagree. Allow me to point out how Raki has been developing through out the anime:

Ep. 1
- Raki starts off as an ignorant character. He pretty much knows nothing of the world outside his village and much less of Claymores.
- We learn of his past, of how his family was murdered by a Yoma. And we learn of his current occupation, a cook.
- We learn that Raki is fearless during his confrontation with a Claymore and during his confrontation with the Yoma.
- However, we learn that he is weak minded, considering the mental break down he went through right after Clare killed his brother in a rather monsterous state, and the even larger mental break down he went through when witnessing his parents being eaten by a Yoma.
- His ignorants of the world outside his village is further shown as he fails survive on his own after being thrown out of the village.
- Lastly, we witness his attachment to Clare. He has lost everything, and the only thing left is this Claymore, the only person in the world that gives a damn about him, hence why he calls her sister, and fallows her like a little brother would fallow an older sister.

Ep. 2
- In this episode Raki learns more about Claymores, and becomes one of the few humans who can accept what Claymores are: half monsters.
- We further witness how Raki is emotionally a weak minded person, when he breaks down and cries after Clare kills her best friend.

Ep. 3
- In this episode, we witness for the first time Raki's desire to protect Clare. When the soldier started talking smack about Clare, he punched him in the face, despite knowing that the guy was stronger them.
- Clare is only thing he has left, the only person who cares for him, hence why he has a desire to protect her, and why he cared for her so much when she was at brink of dying.

Ep. 4
- In this episode we witness how he was willing to die with Clare. When Clare asked to be killed for going over her limit, Raki threw himself onto her and was willing to die along with Clare. From this we see that Raki has NOTHING worth living for but for Clare.
- Lastly we learn about Raki's purpose in life. At the end of the episode, Raki decides that he wants to become stronger inorder to protect Clare. Clare is the only thing he has left, the only thing worth living for. Teresa had a similar purpose, which was to live for Clare, as PGilis pointed out. Now Raki has taken her place and is the one who is living for Clare.

Ep. 9-11
- Through out this episode we witness Raki's continously worried about Clare. Nothing is on his mind, but Clare. All he does is look at the montain Clare went to. Then at the end we witness him being overjoyed as Clare returns and runs straight to her.

Ep. 12
- Once again we witness Raki protecting Clare. Only this time, he witness that he is willing to jump into a blazing fire for her.
- Furthermore, we once again witness that Raki is fearless in the face of a dangerous Claymore, and a monsterous Awakened being. He fights to his lest breath. He may be weak minded, but he has a strong heart.

Ep. 19
- Here we finally witness Raki further developing. At first he was ignorant and weak. But the fact that he is capable of surviving on his own in the north shows just how strong he has become and how much he knows of the world around him.
- In fact, he has grown so strong, that he managed to save a girl, and in a way becomming more of a adventures hero, then simple little village cook.

None of the characters in Claymore show this much development with the exception of Clare. We witness his purpose in life, his desires, his strengths, his weaknesses, his concerns, his knowledge, and his past. And on top of that we witness how he is growing through out the anime. Not even Miria gets that much development, which is the 3rd most developed character in the anime right now. In this episode we witness that Miria has grown much stronger, but we never see how she has grown. But we do see how Clare and Raki grow stronger. We don't even witnessed Miria's purpose in life, nor her past, nor her desires. We witness her strengths, her weakness, her knowlegde, but that is about it. Compared to Raki, she is very much underdeveloped, and the other characters even more so.

NoSanninWa 2007-08-16 16:43

Finally a decent discussion of Raki that doesn't focus on "I hate Raki" vs "Don't whine about him." I have moved these posts from the episode 19 discussion where they were just a digression and would shortly be lost.

I am going to ask everyone to remember that this is not a Raki hate thread. Posting merely to say that you dislike Raki is pointless and will only cause your post to be deleted. If you have specific complaints about his character or role in the story, then please express them as the above posters have. Only that way can we have a discussion.

Valerion 2007-08-16 17:05

Spoiler for volume 12:

wnmnkh 2007-08-16 17:31

I hold my judgement about Raki until I find out how he acts if he realizes that Priscilla is AB. But for now, I would say Raki is one of fine characters in the story; he is a important developing character. (xVxObliVioNxVx pretty said everything I want to say, lol)

But, if we see some cheese after Priscilla's reveal of identity, I will change my mind.

Kazidoom 2007-08-16 17:57

I wonder if the end of Angel Densetsu (same author) hints at what will happen in Claymore.

http://img514.imageshack.us/my.php?i...uv14158me8.png

Seem familiar? Look at the girl he's making his promise to.

http://img211.imageshack.us/my.php?i...uv14159lc8.png

Raki saving Clare, in favor or against?

hamstar 2007-08-16 18:31

yeah the idea for claymore was ripped right out of those 2 pages of angeru densetsu. its pretty obvious.

in the manga i found raki to be a annoyance but in the anime he's more than just someone trying to protect clare...he's a love interest. If you remember the running away from ophelia episode, the way clare made out with a kid....and the look in her eyes. Raki is definately meant to grow up to be clare's love interest not just an annoying side-kick that cant do anything. He' s a huge character and id like to see him again as a grown man probably in claymore form.

Negativedark 2007-08-16 18:52

I'm sure Raki's weak now, but just imagine what'll once he gets a little training. His true hidden sleeping powers will emerge! And then if this is really a shonen Manga, he'll be just uber.

Serously though, Raki is supposed to be the reperesentation of a normal human. Fairly hapless, and if something nasty shows up screwed, but trying his damndest to cope, stay alive, and protect those they love. He kinda reminds me of Ussop from One Piece, in that he's got to cope with a sense of inferiority while working with some real superhumans.

Flora20709 2007-08-16 19:23

Well I think they might turn raki into a awakened being using ishely's skin
i cant wat u see his new powers once he is done :heh:

Jechtsphere 2007-08-16 19:33

What I'm curious is to see what Isley does with him, he could never fight on even ground against anyone but another human so I'm really wondering how or what Isley molds Raki into.

I'm not so sure when they do meet again the both of them will be fighting to the death.

I'm hoping in someway that Raki can become very strong in his time with Isley and at the same time knows what Isley is and it's evil but plays along so he can continue to get stronger until he and Clare find each other and by then hopefully he can be an asset instead of someone who gets in the way.

Sci-Fi 2007-08-16 19:53

The best Raki can hope for is to get as strong as Gak from Ramona and as skilled as he can get from his sword fighting training from Easley/Isley. But compared to regular Yomas, AB's and AO's, that may not be enough. He would have to strike when his target is unaware or the target let's him strike freely.

The first few episodes (anime) and chapters (manga) Raki was pretty annoying, which sabotaged most sympathy the viewers or readers had for his plight. Later on, his character got better, calmer, and showed he had a good heart. Perhaps the mangaka made Raki too emo as part of some role reversal in that fictional universe or wanted to show Raki growth and maturity as the story went on.

Have a feeling Raki will play a pivotal role later in the anime/manga, whether or not some people will accept it. The setup is already being put into place...it a matter how it unfolds.


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