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xris 2007-12-07 03:49

The dubbing of Kanon
 
This thread is for the discussion of English Voice Actors in the R1 release of Kanon.

Please do not use this thread to whinge and whine that you do not like any sort of English dub. No one is forcing you to listen to the dub so if you do not like it then simply listen to the Japanese track and turn the subtitles on.

Please remember these simple rules when critiquing a VA's performance or reading another forum member's critique:
  • Don't take it personally.
    In other words, youíre free to disagree with another personís opinion, but donít flame them if they offer a well written and well thought out analysis that differs from your own opinion. Keep it civil.

  • Voice Actors are humans.
    Yes, itís true. Theyíre human. Therefore, donít just indiscriminately rip them and their work apart as if theyíre inorganic objects. You donít have to flame praise them non-stop, but be thoughtful in your criticism.

VRMN 2007-12-07 06:39

As mentioned in the thread creation request thread, there is a preview of the Kanon dub online at the Anime Network's website. More than likely you'll have to refresh the page multiple times to get the Kanon preview, which will appear, if you get it, next to the press release link for the same show airing on ADV's Anime Network. The preview is from the end of episode one, where Yuuichi Aizawa runs into Ayu Tsukimiya for the first time (well, in the series anyway).

I do want to preface my criticism of the clip by saying that I do tend to listen to and many times will prefer a good dub to the original Japanese audio. There's a value I place upon being able to understand speech without reading it, so as long as the dub is thematically accurate and well-acted, I am likely to enjoy it. An example of this would be Air TV's dub, which did have some issues with translation, but I forgave most of those shortcomings because the dub hit the notes it was supposed to hit.

As for the quality of this clip... In my opinion, there are simply too many liberties taken and, hell, the very first line of the clip (Nayuki's) is plainly flubbed. ""I have to get some stuff *unnecessary, uncomfortable pause* for dinner." (:( = me) At the end, a line...an important to establish, it's a theme line, best translated as "it's a promise," is changed, replaced by, "it'll be real nice."

I hope this isn't a representative sample...even though it very well may be. Though this is the first episode and the VAs can sometimes take a bit of time to get into character (see Misuzu in the Air TV dub), so all is not lost yet. I already preordered the first volume and will buy the rest. I want the DVDs because it's Kanon, not because I thought the series was going to have a stellar dub.

But, that said, the dub seems to be a bit lackluster at this point. First line aside, it's not horrible, but it's not great, either. Ayu, in general, is fine. Yuuichi, also, has about the right tone in my opinion. However, we don't see enough of Nayuki in this preview to really make a call there, but something sounded off...not helped by that first line just being awkward. And yay for "Aizawa" being mispronounced in the final segment, though pronunciation was generally on key.

I'll admit I was easier to satisfy with Air, which I stand by as having a good dub overall. This dub has the misfortune of writing over one of my all-time favorite characters in Ayu Tsukimiya. Which means...anything less than stellar is going to be a hard sell by me. And this wasn't stellar. Serviceable at best, though nothing was explicitly wrong about it. I was much less picky about Air, though, which changed a character name (Sora became Sky, which I excused for making sense given the character who named him) and one of the most important lines in the show...and I excused it for thematic purposes (it hit the right note, it did its job).

This I managed to get upset over "it's a promise" being changed to "it'll be real nice," but I don't feel I'm over-reacting, since establishing that promise theme with Ayu is important, and "promise" is what triggered Yuuichi's momentary flashback.

Here's a couple examples of changes made that were not necessary and, in my opinion, hurt the work:

"It's a promise" changed to "It'll be real nice." –Both take the same number of syllables (4), but the former is the better translation hands down. If it was really necessary because of the lip flaps, add a 'right?' onto the former, rather than changing the line. This is an important line, perhaps the most important of the first episode, both in regards to Ayu and in contrast to Nayuki directly after. It changes the meaning of the scene, and thus is a thematic change. That's not good.

"Liar" did not have to be changed to "You lied to me." –Her face isn't even facing the screen, so lip flaps are not an issue here...it's just a strange choice. The meaning of this isn't really a big deal, nothing really changes here...this one willing to give a pass on, even if I don't really like it. I think there was something to be said for Nayuki's conciseness in the Japanese and a bit of that was lost here.

There are also a couple of other things, like in the cafť, Ayu mentions that she snatched the taiyaki "the other day" in the dub. Which, in addition to being incorrect ("just a bit ago" would have worked), it doesn't even make sense. And, oh yeah, speaking of Ayu...the "uguu~..." They tried their damnedest to make it work. Points for effort, but not many for execution. Ironically, Patton did a better job with the 'uguu' while mocking it as Yuuichi than Karbowski did when playing it seriously as Ayu.

I'll probably have more when the DVD comes out, but this certainly did nothing to quell my concerns over Kanon being localized. While the characters hit the notes they needed to, at least in this preview, which bodes well for the rest of the dub in that regard, the changes made to the script do not.

nuaythebest 2007-12-07 06:59

Wow, VRMN said everything I want to say and I have to agree with him about some unnecessary changing. It seem they try their best to keep "ugu?" or whatever it is to make the fan happy but it doesn't seem right in English. Anyway I have a hard time with Air Volume 1 DUB but the rest were superb, so I will do the same with Kanon.

PS. I think "You lied to me." is a better choice it sound more polite which I think suit better than "Liar".

Sirth 2007-12-07 11:38

-First Impressions-
Have to agree with the above as well. There seemed to be a bit too many liberties taken. Though I missed the promise line (Guess I didn't pay attention.), I did catch the illogical "The other day."
Can't say I was too disappointed, but overall, it's not gonna win any awards. So far. I think if I got to watch it from the beginning (AKA, "You got snow on you."), I'd feel better, to establish the voices again.
Personally, I think Chris would be better as Tomoya than Yuuichi. He's got that young flair. It still fits a bit, although I think it loses something of that Yuuichi charm. But if they do bring Clannad, their options for potential actors becomes a bit more limited. Hell, depending on how Greg sounds, I'll almost think they should be switched.
Ayu... hmm, Brittney did well, but she does sound a bit... odd? I guess it's because she sounds older than she looks? Maybe watching the fan subs again recently out of nostalgia was a bad idea. And "Uguu~" will probably be in limited doses, though I always did find it odd in the first place. Does sound forced (Odder than "gao~" is my guess.)
Nayuki... some time ago, someone though she sounded preppy. I may agree here. She doesn't appear much, but I just don't know if she sounds like Nayuki.

-Second Impressions-
Making this post has compelled me to re-watch the clip, to maybe justify or change my opinions. Watching things a second time might help to establish your opinions or further describe them.
OK, plainly, I'm thinking I got the "This'll be awesome" vibes from Air. I didn't think I'd be impressed by it, but I was. So when I went at the clip for Kanon again, with the above opinions, it turned out better. The acting is good, may actually be more than passable. I barely noticed the Aizawa thing, though I'm still finding Ayu's pronunciation of her last name odd. It sounds more like Sukimiya than Tsukimiya, but I still vaguely hear the Tsu, so it can pass (Tsu is considered the most odd syllable to pronounce in Japanese for us foreigners.)
Chris as Yuuichi... OK, he does have that sarcastic flair, although I still think it's lessened. He fits now, though I still think he'd be better as Tomoya.
Nayuki... meh, I'll be a little less insulting and say she sounds... mature? We're too used to young voices in our anime, I think. But she does sound a bit huffy. So far, she's the most questionable to me.
Ayu... above. She replaces some "Uguu" with more of a huffy "Ugh." Little miss is usually associated with sounding younger, but the hyper voice does fit. She does a good job sounding the part.
I noticed, though, some lines were added. Ayu keeps talking about her wings while Yuuichi starts his observations. The chef also seems to have added "It's fine" when they went back. The maid, also, reacted to the difference between "Later" and "You crazy?" Instead of being polite, she sounded a bit offended, which fits. Yuuichi also doesn't just breath when he's running, but goes "Oh man oh man oh man," which I think fits.

Overall, I think I'll be watching the dub when I get it, and I'll more than likely enjoy it. I don't think it'll turn out bad enough to switch.

Ice Climbers 2007-12-07 11:43

I guess you do have to give them credit for trying their best to imitate the original, but I must say I am disappointed as well (totally agree with the above points)

Not like I had a lot of expectation anyways :heh:

CrowKenobi 2007-12-08 00:35

After watching the clip, I agree with some of what has been said before... I also think that Nayuki sounds a bit older than what we're used to, but I believe that that can be worked on.

I also think that Chris Patton's voice of Yuuichi is a bit... light. I personally think that he should use the tone of voice he used as Tomokazu Mikuri in Yumeria.

As for Ayu, I'm not really sold on her voice yet... need to hear more... :D

:cool:

Tsuki-Miko-14 2007-12-08 06:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrowKenobi (Post 1288357)
After watching the clip, I agree with some of what has been said before... I also think that Nayuki sounds a bit older than what we're used to, but I believe that that can be worked on.

I also think that Chris Patton's voice of Yuuichi is a bit... light. I personally think that he should use the tone of voice he used as Tomokazu Mikuri in Yumeria.

As for Ayu, I'm not really sold on her voice yet... need to hear more... :D

:cool:


Wow that what i was think when i was watch it . Ayu need more time on me to understan if it fit or not. Nayuki well she dose sound kind older.
And yuuichi dose not sound yuuichi to me.
Need more time to see how the voice get to me.

Takuto19 2007-12-08 20:19

Hmm, can't seem to find the dub trailer on the site.

Even if the dub isn't that good that i do like the japanese dub better most of the time so i don't mind about that.

Anyways hoping to try and get the dvd when it comes out next month, one of my fav animes heh, just that i'm in UK so i might have to get it imported, like i did with Haruhi.

stardf29 2007-12-08 20:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takuto19 (Post 1289552)
Hmm, can't seem to find the dub trailer on the site.

Keep refreshing the main page and it'll come up eventually.

As for my thoughts on the dub, I thought Brittney Karbowski did a great job as Ayu. (Maybe not quite as good as Yui Horie, but that may be because Yui Horie is a voice-acting goddess. :p ) I had no problems listening to her as Ayu, and I generally find dubs a bit hard to listen to, so that's definitely good.

Chris Patton as Yuuichi was more disconcerting; putting his voice at a higher register made him sound more like the Toei-Kanon Yuuichi... Well, that's one voice I'll just have to get used to.

The little bit of Nayuki is passable (save for the lip-locked pause in her "I need to get some things... for dinner" line), but as she very little screen time in that clip, I'm not going to make any judgments here.

All things said, the dub's looking pretty good.

Ice Climbers 2007-12-09 01:25

Just watched the trailer on youtube, they pronounced Haruhi wrong :heh:

Sirth 2007-12-09 06:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ice Climbers (Post 1289922)
Just watched the trailer on youtube, they pronounced Haruhi wrong :heh:

Sorry man, we're way passed that. Hell, I'm still feeling pity every time it feels like that's all ANYONE heard.

*Insert Kyon "yare yare" here.*

Repeating the link: If you look here, you can find a full clip of when Yuuichi meets Ayu. Refresh the page if you don't get it.

~ Lawliet ~ 2007-12-09 18:03

Having had loved Kanon 2006, I'mma be watching. However I have not any high hopes.

nuaythebest 2007-12-09 21:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by ~ Lawliet ~ (Post 1290867)
Having had loved Kanon 2006, I'mma be watching. However I have not any high hopes.

Grammar :twitch:?

FatPianoBoy 2007-12-09 23:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by nuaythebest (Post 1291086)
Grammar :twitch:?

English as a second language and trying his/her best? ;)

Icehawk 2007-12-10 15:36

I'd say the dub appears to be good from that clip. In fact I actually kind of prefer Yuichi's english voice as it sounds more his age and still fits the character well. The original had good acting but made him sound like he was in his mid 20's which I never really liked. Ayu's english VA seems pretty good and I think she is getting the "Uguu's" down about as good as she is capable without it sounding too forced.

Cyz 2007-12-11 14:51

Watching the short clip, Ayu's voice sound a little strange since it's deep. Also, the "uguu" part, it made me chuckle since you can tell that there was an American accent to it :blush:. Oh well, I'm glad that Chris Patton got to voiced Yuuichi and not Vic....forgot his last name. Nyways, I'm still looking forward for the first release :nod:.

Solafighter 2007-12-14 14:14

Well the dubs are not bad but in my opinion, nayuki and ayu sounds like 18 - 20 years old girls, instead of the age, they were. :D

Asrialys 2007-12-15 12:33

Hm...how old did your fellow high school students sound during your time? I think Nayuki is one of the more mature girls in the anime, so it fits. But I still don't think that Nayuki and Ayu sound too old for their ages.

Anyway, the dub looks good so far. The only one that sounded awkward to me was Yuuichi. Maybe because Tomokazu Sugita sounded so much older and...manlier? lol

CloroAsakura 2007-12-22 03:12

honestly after watching the clip, imo the girls voices are too mature nayuki (and im a nayuki fanboy), nayuki voice with mariko was more sweet and childish its was excellent with the character, and ayu's uguus are fun they make me laugh as someone said yuichi sarcastic uguu was better

imo yuuichi have the best VA in this dub. i ordered the DVD i want more nayuki.

if i dont like enough the dubs i hope that the subtitles are not the English dub script

VRMN 2007-12-23 21:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by CloroAsakura (Post 1308778)
if i dont like enough the dubs i hope that the subtitles are not the English dub script

That almost never happens these days, honestly. The subs almost always go for the literal translation now, while the dub script by necessity takes liberties to make the English fit as neatly as possible over the original Japanese audio. While this was an issue a while ago, I haven't noticed it recently (and I buy a lot of DVDs and watch a lot of dubs), most recently and most notably with ADV's work on AIR TV.

So, in short, you don't have anything to worry about there.


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