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-   -   Toradora! - Episode 4 Discussion / Poll (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=73286)

xris 2008-10-23 03:46

Toradora! - Episode 4 Discussion / Poll
 
Welcome to the discussion thread for Toradora!, Episode 4.

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stormy001_M1A2 2008-10-23 05:48

I liked this episode very much. Sumire spoke like a gangster leader and she is smirking dangerously when Taiga confronted her in the assembly scene. And Ryuji managed to dodge another flying kick by Taiga for once.Nice scene of shared lunch, Taiga is having terminal meltdown when her crush is too near to her. Kitamura seems to be attracted to strong girls.

Consistent episode. I like it.

http://imagechan.wakarimasenlol.com/...4716606518.png

"O-HA!"

This scene have me rolling on floor laughing hard.

http://imagechan.wakarimasenlol.com/...4716776028.png

The hedonistic princess is making a grand entry in next episode.

JMvS 2008-10-23 06:03

I feared it would become a Kitamura centered episode, and instead it was a Taiga loves Kitamura one :)

Sumire's introduction was light enough, so we didn't have too much development on Kitamura. Instead we got a lot of Taiga funny faces (dere-dere :heehee: )!
And those are meant for each other, look at their stalker attitude! :D
I liked how they used a few scenes previously skipped (alas no dance :( ).

I'll give it a solid 9.

And can't wait for Ami-chan! :p

Cat Megex 2008-10-23 06:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormy001_M1A2 (Post 2007375)


"O-HA!"

This scene have me rolling on floor laughing hard. .

During that scene, I kept thinking "oha-lucky!" XD

Also, as mentioned previously, this episode has redeemed J.C.Staff in my eyes.

SuperKnuckles 2008-10-23 07:25

Minori must be the cutest girl I've seen in anime in a long while. Her face makes a perfect smiley. Pudding mo!!!

typhonsentra 2008-10-23 07:41

Yay, we can finally talk about this episode!
Spoiler:

tzia_n 2008-10-23 08:15

toradora is a 12 ep season right? it's quite weird how, when i think about it, that much has happened in the first few episodes. i hope they manage to tell a good chunk of story by the end of it

JMvS 2008-10-23 08:26

IIRC it is going to be two 12 ep seasons.

SuperKnuckles 2008-10-23 09:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMvS (Post 2007568)
IIRC it is going to be two 12 ep seasons.

JCStaff needs to cut it out. Slayers being divided didn't make any more sense either...

Well, that and all those weird Zero no Tsukaima dividings (at least Toradora wasn't fiddled around with too much).

Heck, it seems to me that JCStaff is the worst offender in doing that really.

Cat Megex 2008-10-23 09:55

Actually, Toradora looks to be a 25-episode show (two cours, but one season, so no breaks between them [except maybe the week of Christmas...I've heard TV Tokyo tends to take a break that week or something]), based on the number of DVD releases planned (8), the number of episodes on the first DVD (4), and the prices for the different DVDs (~7,200 for the first DVD [regular edition, at least], and ~6,300 for the remaining seven [also regular editions]; with a value of ~1,800 per episode on the first DVD, it would be a fairly good assumption that the episodes on the other DVDs would be worth about the same, and if you divide ~6,300 by 3, you get ~2,100, which is a price difference of only about 300, so it's likely that the seven DVDs after the first would have three episodes each. All together, that gives you 4 + 7(3) = 25). As the DVD releases are only spread out by about a month each, I doubt there will be a very large break, if there is one at all.

Also, in case my use of the tilde sign in front of the yen symbol is confusing to anyone, I was simply using it to indicate that the values are approximate; I don't know if it has any actual significance when combined with the yen symbol.

(Oh, and here's the link to the DVD release page)

Kinny Riddle 2008-10-23 10:50

Hey, I didn't even realized this series has finally got its own section.

So that's where all the missing parts from novel volume 1 went, into this Kitamura-Taiga relationship episode.

As someone has correctly foresaw, Taiga seems to go tsun in the odd-numbered episodes and dere in even numbered one. This week she's distinctly deredere to the point of melting hearts. She's adorable even when she's drooling at the discreetly taken photos of Kitamura like a voyeuristic stalker.

Next week, we will be looking forward to Ami's grand entrance. That's when the "battle royale bitch fight" can well and truly begin. :cool: Expect Taiga to go all hostile towards the newcomer as she reverts back into tsun mode.

Darknemo2000 2008-10-23 11:08

Again as I said in generic thread, can Taiga really be considered tsundere at this point?

Tsundere means you are both sweet and cold/angry/bitch at the same time, yet it is a single word meaning that the character has to be both, yet when all dereder moments are directed mostly to one character and tsuntsun ones to the other, can it really be considered 'tsundere'? If you look at it , she is juts mean to one people and good to other, just like many people are actually.

Tsundere I consider showing both parts in the same relationship (with the same person) like Louise or Shana, switching from tsun to dere...

Yet if the relationships are different then she really cannot be considered a real tsundere at this point. She is juts mean to some and good to different people but not really sweet/mean at the same time with the same person.

Just a random thought I had.

Vexx 2008-10-23 11:30

The word tsundere has taken quite a twisting from the old days when it specifically referred to the archetype in date-sims where the girl starts off cold and angry to everyone (including you, the protagonist) and your quest is to melt her heart to win her. It was simplistic and linear.

Modern anime and literary tsundere can be quite complicated and the word seems to have expanded and evolved to fit the simul-tsundere (crunchy outside creamy inside). Taiga starts out tsuntsun on Ryuuji, but in terms of the anime that collapses within the first episode. However, she still doesn't understand her own feelings (as Kitamura claimed to in ep 2) so a lot of times she transmits her confusion with Ryuuji into kicks and punches. Good thing she's so small :P

I think the personality pentagrams you see in many fan guides are some minor attempt to correct for "one size fits none" labels.

I agree that simply labeling her loli-tsundere is a considerable over-simplification.... but then I find most anime labels terribly oversimplified and often misleading (e.g. "Oh, shoujo??? I don't read that!" ... and they miss out on some lovely stories that are totally enjoyable by young men).

Darknemo2000 2008-10-23 11:45

But the original dating sim where this term comes from is what shows that it is still a part of a single relationship.

So far we dont see much of deredere towards Ryuuji. In fact the relaxed and understanding atmosphere is generated by Ryuuji which allows Taiga to open up, and create dere moments, yet they are all in most cases connected with Kitamura.

In fact these switches of Taiga that so many noticed, come not from mood swings but the person with whom she deals,. The more episode has Kitamura the more dere dere moments you will see... The more she deals with Ryuuji the more bitchy she is.

Kinny Riddle 2008-10-23 11:50

You're delving too much into the distinction of a tsundere. The term has long evolved to cover a broad range beyond its intended definition, if it ever has a single original definition at all.

Does it really matter that she's not being tsun and dere to the same person? And does it have to be towards the same person? Just who decides that anyway? The audience gets to see both sides of it, Ryuji, though not the recipient of both sides of Taiga, also gets to sees both, that, for me, is more than enough.

Cloud668 2008-10-23 11:59

Guys, who cares whether Taiga is tsundere or not? :D
Spoiler:

Darknemo2000 2008-10-23 11:59

Seeing that she acts nice with someone and then get kicked in the gutter doesn't really make you feel better...

It is good that our dragon is so nice...

There is a difference - if you are always a bitch/bastard to certain people and are only nice to some other then I can't really see it being a tsundere. Yes I do read novels and I do now that some scenes will come in the future but at this point Taiga is not a tsundere. She is just acting bitchy to some and nicely to other. Juts like we all do. Though tsundere definitely broadened I do not think it has broadened as wide as to call all people in general tsundere (since all people have people they like and dislike).

Cloud668, true doesn't change much but the way she could be called. Sweet with Kitamura, and Bitch - with Ryuuji rather than covering it with a single term tsundere.

Kinny Riddle 2008-10-23 12:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darknemo2000 (Post 2007911)
Seeing that she acts nice with someone and then get kicked in the gutter doesnt really make you feel better...

It is good that our dragon is so nice...

And that's the difference between you and the dragon. Ryuji sees some good in the tiger which you're having trouble identifying, and puts up with her, no matter the price.

Darknemo2000 2008-10-23 12:09

I do. Since for me it makes loose some respect for Taiga when she is bitchy to the guy who is actually very considerate and is drooling over goof that so far hasn't really done anything much in the anime to show as to why the girls like him so much...

I always like tsunderes because the do show that sweet side of theirs to the same person to whom they can be really mean, thus making those mean moments not as painful.

Kinny Riddle 2008-10-23 12:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darknemo2000 (Post 2007939)
I do. Since for me it makes loose some respect for Taiga when she is bitchy to the guy who is actually very considerate and is drooling over goof that so far hasn't really done anything much in the anime to show as to why the girls like him so much...

Taiga is actually grateful deep down to Ryuji taking care of her, but is too proud to show it. She does let Minori know about this. Explaining more would be spoiling the novels.

Quote:

I always like tsunderes because the do show that sweet side of theirs to the same person to whom they can be really mean, thus making those mean moments not as painful.
Your tolerance level for tsunderes is 50% tsun, 50% dere. Taiga, assuming she is one, is 90% tsun, 10% dere (towards Ryuji). Much like Suzumiya Haruhi. That is why you cannot accept her as a tsundere for your standards, but I will keep calling her a tsundere, whether you like it or not. :p


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