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-   -   Is it wrong for a man to strike a woman in self dence no matter what? (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=75663)

Ronin Aquila 2008-12-21 21:33

Is it wrong for a man to strike a woman in self dence no matter what?
 
The funniest things go through you head when you are doing research for stories about gender conflicts, even fantasy ones.

An astounding amount of Triad and Yakuza bosses, men amongst macho men, died at the knives of angry girlfriends and not strike back a single blow simply because they somehow believe that it is wrong to strike a woman even to save your own life.

My own father, a frail 60 year decent-old-gentleman who would not hurt even a fly, would gladly beg in a low and soft voice for his feminist second daughter (for I refuse to call her "sister") to "please stop, please stop" when she throws plates that my departed mother used to love and even knives at him, and not even raise his voice, much less his fists. Because why? "Political correctness" and militant feminists have somehow made it so that a man cannot even be verbally violent to defend even their own basic human dignity, much less their own lives. There's always a liberal lawyer out there who will put even a helpless old-man like my father in jail because even raising one's voice at a woman can somehow be warped into "harrassement" in court.

The research is far from over, but along the way I saw a film based on a Stephen King novel that brought a smile to my face: Misery, wherein an strong, forceful, overbearing tyrant of a fangirl who imprisons and abuses her favourite author, to the point of crippling him just so he will stay with her, get a taste of her own medicine when he beats her to death with the same typewriter that she destroyed his dignity with. She was a woman, yes. But if he did not strike back, she would have shot him to death to keep him forever.

I still have otherwise macho friends (thank Guan-Yu, Saint of Justice, not all of them) who say that they will let a girl stab them to death because they think striking a woman is wrong, no matter what.

What does the rest of Animesuki think of this issue?

GuidoHunter_Toki 2008-12-21 21:38

Well there is a point you need to cross the line and I think self defense, especially if life endangering is that line.

Really though sometimes this whole concept erks the hell out of me, not for the reason its said, but how some women use it as a means to attack others. They get this empowerment about themselves and they feel they can attack men since they shouldn't strike them back.

Its bad to be violent towards anyone and it shouldn't matter about gender.

Theowne 2008-12-21 21:42

I think the fact that it is considered an "issue" is strange in itself.

If you have to protect your own life, do it. I don't get where feminism comes into it. If someone is endangering someone else's life, it's your duty to stop it regardless of who is committing the crime. Some people would say it's "worse" to hit a female. Isn't it bad to be violent, period? Why is there some kind of gradation there? I just don't get it.

iLney 2008-12-21 21:44

One would kill anyone to save his life, even himself....

Mystique 2008-12-21 21:58

*said feminist here*
If a girl is using bottles, knives or any other weapon that isn't a part of her body, she's lost the right to not being struck.
Most guys can over power us, or simply engage in an arm lock (though she may kick, spit, bite and scream)
So forcing her down rather than out rightly striking her would be better. But in the event of a weapon, forget it. I'm with guys on that front, you can slap the crap out of her, if it's enough to knock her out and take the weapon away.

I think since we kinda know that we have that advantage, truly horrible girls will abuse it to get what they want, knowing the guy won't retaliate in that way.
On those occasions, I tell my male friends, to bring her to me so I can act as their representative. xD
(Even in an online sense too)

But no, to save his life, he can strike her, however it'd be better to pin her own or disarm her rather than just looking to hit her asap.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronin Aquila (Post 2120992)
"Political correctness" and militant feminists have somehow made it so that a man cannot even be verbally violent to defend even their own basic human dignity, much less their own lives. There's always a liberal lawyer out there who will put even a helpless old-man like my father in jail because even raising one's voice at a woman can somehow be warped into "harrassement" in court.

What country/society are you basing that off though, before i roll my eyes and think 'america'
Bear in mind though, that for a majority of the world women still have next to zero rights within their society or family envrionment.
I think it's a case of Western or 'civilised' societies gone insane on the other side of the coin.
UK wise, harrassment issues in the workplace usually involve open sexual lewdness from male colleagues - those are cases of where i've heard of it being taken to court, but that seems to be a diff issue from what you mentioned there.

Cut-Tongue 2008-12-21 22:06

Naw. Theres a line that can be crossed. People (all people) can reach a point where only physical action will stop them from hurting themselves or others.

Some people even have their own seemingly arbitrary issues. I would literally break my wife's fingers if she started poking me in the chest to punctuate words in a sentence. I hate that, and I warned her early on not to do it. Needless to say, it hasn't happened. I've resolved not to hit her because of words, and I've certainly been struck before by her (got slapped in the face once, punched in the arm a few times, she grabbed me by the beard and pulled in opposite directions), but I didn't feel that it would escalate beyond that one blow, so nothing happened.

Mystique 2008-12-21 22:13

what was the reason for her attacking you cat-tongue, that seems somewhat extreme :\

edit:
@wandering - well not if she's many inches taller than you, many pounds heavier and engages in some kinda physical activity....

WanderingKnight 2008-12-21 22:15

I don't know. Should I be expected to be stronger than a woman only because I'm a man?

For the record, I weigh around 55 kilograms (less than 120 pounds for you Imperial types). I'm pretty sure lots of girls can kick my ass quite easily.

There are lots of cultural reasons that explain the "don't hit women" rule, and most of them don't have any sort of ground on inherent qualities of men and women. In fact, feminist women should realize that such rules sometimes date to ancient traditions and an old preconception of how a family works--which is exactly the sort of thing they strive to get rid of.

james0246 2008-12-21 22:27

I am not sure I understand this thread's question. Every man, woman, or child has the right to protect themselves in self-defense against an attacker, whether the attacker be male or female.

If a woman comes at a man with a knife (or some other instrument of harm), then he should do what anyone under attack should do...call the police/ask for help :). If that doesn't work, then he should be able to defend himself by running or if need be attacking his aggressor.

Ronin Aquila 2008-12-21 22:28

Firstly, Mystique, my apologies.

If only more feminists are reasonable and decent people like you rather than people who are like my father's second daughter. :)

And believe it or not, Taiwan, my homeland, was the country I was referring to, where "Daddy's little girl" routhinely beat their fathers to death with baseball bats and axes. :mad:

Quote:

Originally Posted by WanderingKnight (Post 2121068)
There are lots of cultural reasons that explain the "don't hit women" rule, and most of them don't have any sort of ground on inherent qualities of men and women. In fact, feminist women should realize that such rules sometimes date to ancient traditions and an old preconception of how a family works--which is exactly the sort of thing they strive to get rid of.

Unfortunately, as said by Guidohunter, a regrettably large number use that tradition as a loophole to gain "empowerment" from being allowed to strike-and-abuse whom-ever they wish. :(

ganbaru 2008-12-21 22:45

The important point is Self-Defence .
The genders of the peoples involved is of little importance ( no offence) here.

The root of this is: is this OK to strike someone for defend ourself?
For me , I think the answer is yes.

FateAnomaly 2008-12-21 22:56

IMO, the reason why men shouldn't strike women is because men are normally physically stronger. If this factor becomes invalid due to various reasons, (e.g. weapons) then i think the man should retaliate. However, do note that women have a secondary weapon call tears which could be quite scary too.

Frailty 2008-12-21 23:02

I think retaliating's fine when it comes to the virge of your own death
even though your being "true man" is at stake, you can't risk you life for sacrificing for the sake of women...

I mean, a man can retaliate and not give much damage to the woman who's about to take your life, if the man's wise enough in my opinion.

nice argument here BTW

Mystique 2008-12-21 23:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by FateAnomaly (Post 2121155)
IMO, the reason why men shouldn't strike women is because men are normally physically stronger. If this factor becomes invalid due to various reasons, (e.g. weapons) then i think the man should retaliate. However, do note that women have a secondary weapon call tears which could be quite scary too.

Crocodile tears, so true...

Women are a scary, vicious species of human beings huh :heh:

@ Ronin - No offense taken, it's an interesting topic. I guess the question rather could also be 'outside of saving your life, is it wrong for a man to hit a woman?'
For me same rules apply , if she's being agressive with a weapon then no.
But it seems to be a serious case in Taiwan, spoiled daddy's girls killing and harming their own source of funds *cough* their own fathers?
If i get some time, may bug ya, kinda wanna look into it out of curiousity...
Sorry you had to experience something like that within your family tho :(

Evil Rick 2008-12-22 00:24

It depends, if the woman is threatring you with a big pair of... ehem... weapons... better surrender :naughty:

:p :joke:

Seriously: In self defense and as last resource yes, I agree

ClockWorkAngel 2008-12-22 00:40

Well the answer is obviously yes, afterall all bets are off when someone is going to hurt you.

I don't see the problem with a guy hitting a girl, it's all in context, but for most situation violence doesn't need to be applied. That's the thing, for most situations you shouldn't strike at another person, it's plain and simple.

Gender has a moot point here, the problem with society is that in several occasions some guy has a hankering to beat the closest female around them. So many things can be blamed and it's really useless to try to justify any violence anyways.

Most men just grab the girl's arms, however if she's coming at you with a knife... might get more difficult.

Irenicus 2008-12-22 00:44

Wow, Ronin. That sounds really ugly. I could see why you're really angry at it.

I'd hypothesize that the old gender ideals actually play a much more important role in this don't-hit-women-no-matter-what ideal than feminism. Some women just misuse the term feminism for this kind of thing, which isn't exactly right. Mind, the transition from the older gender ideals to the new equality ideal involves a trade-off, more power more responsibility and all that. I suspect many want more power/equality but doesn't want to do the trade-off, just wanting keep the cake and eat it at the same time. That could raise eyebrows, or in your rather extreme case, anger and outrage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evil Rick (Post 2121274)
It depends, if the woman is threatring you with a big pair of... ehem... weapons... better surrender :naughty:

:p :joke:

Somebody's an M. :p

Clarste 2008-12-22 01:45

I feel like there's a radical misuse of the word 'feminism' recently. Most people I hear described as 'feminists' on the internet (usually insultingly), don't sound like feminists at all. I guess that's off-topic though.

On topic, I agree with the basic sentiment that violence is wrong, period. If you have to use violence to stop violence, that can be justified, but gender doesn't come into the equation anywhere.

rainnydaiis 2008-12-22 02:00

Well the topic says no matter what, but the poll says to safe his life. I think to save ones life people will do things that go out of reason. Like the movies you see when theres a choice of someone else getting hurt or dying for you to live, a lot of people will take that chance. Even though its a movie in reality most people will be the same way. Caring about their own lives before others.

But on the other hand when it comes to hitting girls for self defense, I say sure why not. I mean if the girl is able to threaten you to label it "self defense" then she has enough power or a weapon that can overpower you. So I say you better strike her if shes really coming at you threatening you.

Papaya 2008-12-22 02:03

Ay, pretty sure I'd have no problem slapping a ho to kingdom come if it puts her in her place.


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