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-   -   Is Anime being abused? (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=83000)

FireChick 2009-06-21 10:03

Is Anime being abused?
 
I know this is going to start up a LOT of controversy, but I wanna express myself, don't take it too far.

What is Anime? It's the Japanese term for popular TV show entertainment, or "animation", where the word was coined. It mostly began in the beginning of the 20th century, the first with voices being "Chikara to Onna no Yo no Naka" and with Tezuka's well-known "Kimba the White Lion" being the first with animated color.

Speaking of Tezuka Osamu, aka the self-proclaimed "God of Manga", he was the one who truly made the manga and anime world blossom during the 70's. He created many revered and famous titles such as Astro Boy, Kimba the White Lion, Unico, mangas such as Princess Knight, Adolf, etc. He basically made manga and anime at it's brightest and got it to the height of it's fame. He helped Tomino Yoshiyuki create the Gundam franchise (or did he? I dunno). He created the best titles with good stories, good characters, good development and other stuff. Of course, there are classic anime such as Rose of Versailles, Glass no Kamen, Lady Lady and Candy Candy too. But...those were long ago. Although anime still continues to be popular to this day...it's popularity seems to now be abused and exploited in the WRONG way.

Why do I say it's being popular in the WRONG way, you ask? Before, animators created their own creative stories with good characters, good plots, good development, somewhat realistic references, good setting, good plot devices, and many other things. But it seems that ever since 2005-2006, about 70% of anime has consisted of NOTHING but moe, lolicon, useless fan-service, ecchi, chest groping, people shoving their privates in other people's faces, non-seriousness, lack of discipline, maid outfits, bunny outfits and fetishes!...and now it's going to go WAY TOO FAR. The other 30% being the anime WITHOUT that useless stuff (such as anime from the like the World Masterpiece Theater, shows like the upcoming Tokyo Magnitude 8.0, some children's shows, Shounen Onmyouji WHICH I LOVE WITH A PASSION!!!, etc). And when I say "going way too far", I am referring to titles such as these:

1. http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news...nime-green-lit
2. http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/ency...me.php?id=9000
3. http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/ency...me.php?id=8195
4. http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/ency...me.php?id=7688
5. http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/ency...me.php?id=9561
6. http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/ency...e.php?id=10086

Don't get me wrong, I am NOT criticizing ALL anime. I am just saying that the population of fan-service infested anime NEEDS to go down, such as titles like these. If someone wants to make titles like these, keep them in a low number! I just feel that people are suddenly loving these kinds of anime and don't realize that this is going too far in introducing horrible sexual stuff to the world. I mean, there's so much better anime that just want to be discovered. I don't mind simple fantasy ones or quiet slice-of-life titles or simple romance stories or murder mysteries or magical girl anime or supernatural stories about demons and spirits any of the stuff JUST as long as they ARE NOT infested with the stuff which I feel has made anime feel abused and made popular in the WRONG way.

I mean, there's so many things worth showing in anime, but not overused and dumb fan-service. I mean, even realistic events in the past such as World War II (Tezuka's Adolf) was portrayed in a manga, so have serious issues such as people being diagnosed with autism (Tobe's With The Light, a GREAT MANGA!!!) or any as such. There's also events in the past that are worth being animated, such as slavery, World War I, the Civil War, the Vietnam War, the Kennedy assassination, the war in Iraq, and other things along with serious issues such as clashes among religion, diseases such as Alzheimers or Huntington's, disorders such as Autism or Down syndrome, etc. Of course, not all anime have historical references. I mean, anime can also portray famous literature and stories into anime. I mean, look at how Romeo x Juliet turned out. Gonzo produced it in 2007 or 2008 (can't remember) yet it was a smash hit, yet it wasn't made by the World Masterpiece Theater (not that I don't like them, I'm just saying). Not only that, LMM's Anne of Green Gables is insanely popular in Japan, it's even getting a prequel now!

What I'm saying is, anime is about creating entertainment for everyone to enjoy in a good way, NOT about promoting fan-service, moe, lolicon, and sex fetishes! I know this is gonna cause a LOT of controversy, but say what you want. I'm just expressing my opinion.

Does anyone else feel that anime has been abused and exploited in the wrong way? Express how you feel!

Kudryavka 2009-06-21 10:20

Okay seriously, you watch waaay too much bishoujo and seinen.
I mean, if you don't want lolicon, chest groping, etc., then watch anime targeted towards a different audience than men who actually enjoy that stuff.

I think that your area of sight is rather limited. You're only looking at the bishoujo, and therefore it looks like there's so much fanservice etc. But if you widen your spectrum, to genres like shoujo, jousei, etc. you'll see that all this fanservice isn't as prominent as you think.

I don't think that anime has been abused; there are still those anime that are "serious" and "important".

FireChick 2009-06-21 10:41

Quote:

Okay seriously, you watch waaay too much bishoujo and seinen.
No I don't.

Kudryavka 2009-06-21 11:10

Then how can you see all this as so prominent?? If your sight isn't so limited?

Midonin 2009-06-21 11:19

The past was just as derivative/original as the present, and the future will be as well. All that changes is peoples' tastes and perspectives as they grow up.

And seriously, you quote "non-seriousness" as a problem? Comedy is a functional genre as much as anything else.

FireChick 2009-06-21 11:29

Quote:

And seriously, you quote "non-seriousness" as a problem? Comedy is a functional genre as much as anything else.
I wasn't referring to comedy. When watching those fan-service infested shows, do you ever notice that the characters often show that they're COMPLETELY unaware and oblivious of what's being done to them or the consequences of what's being done to them? That or don't even care about what's being done to them? I mean, even the PARENTS of the characters in the show seem to have no sense of justice regarding these acts. That's what I mean by "non-seriousness".

Quote:

Then how can you see all this as so prominent?? If your sight isn't so limited?
I'm a pretty good observer...plus I go to a lot of anime blogs. And I wasn't really referring to JUST bishojo genre. I'm referring to genres that actually allow the useless fan-service and stuff. I know, this seems dumb, but I'm just simply stating my opinion. I'm not intending to start a huge controversy.

Kudryavka 2009-06-21 11:29

I understand your anger, FireChick. I used to always scratch my head, wondering why all the anime these days have stuff like what you described in them. But that was back when I watched not much more than bishoujo, since I'm kinda big on visual novels.

Just step back and look at the whole picture, and you'll see that all this "unwanted" content isn't as popular and widely accepted as you think.

::edit:: From looking at your last post that just jumped mine, I think that you're asking why the anime that have all this fan-service exist as the way they do.
Answer: because that's what their audiences want.

Midonin 2009-06-21 11:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by FireChick (Post 2464524)
I wasn't referring to comedy. When watching those fan-service infested shows, do you ever notice that the characters often show that they're COMPLETELY unaware and oblivious of what's being done to them or the consequences of what's being done to them? That or don't even care about what's being done to them? I mean, even the PARENTS of the characters in the show seem to have no sense of justice regarding these acts. That's what I mean by "non-seriousness".

That's one of the building blocks of the shows. It's what makes up the genre - people either treating the weirdest things as commonplace or stumbling into hijinx. That's not a problem, that's what makes the show what it is.

It would be like if I started criticizing tokusatsu for having two-minute roll calls and shamelessly selling its merchandise.

Kudryavka 2009-06-21 11:34

Reading what Midonin wrote, your question is like asking "Why is the sky blue instead of green?" It's like, it's blue for a reason, and don't try to change it.

Sometimes when there's something that you don't like, you just gotta turn your back on it. Especially if that thing doesn't affect you at all.

Sackett 2009-06-21 11:39

Heh... I guess these type of shows don't bother me that much because I just avoid them like the plague.

What bothers me is when all this fan-service junk spills over into a show with a decent plot.

I mean, if other people want to eat crap I can't do much about it, but please don't mix your crap in with my apple pie.

orion 2009-06-21 11:41

What? No Queen's Blade link? *ducks shoe being tossed at head*

I sympathize with you Firechick but that's what brings in the dough right now. But there are other titles not fetish, ecchi, fanservice laden that are being put out.

You gotta get used to the good, bad and ugly in anime.

Tamad 2009-06-21 12:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by FireChick (Post 2464399)
What I'm saying is, anime is about creating entertainment for everyone to enjoy in a good way, NOT about fan-service, moe, lolicon, and fetishes! I know this is gonna cause a LOT of controversy, but say what you want. I'm just expressing my opinion.

But if the fanservice, moe, lolicon, and fetish side of anime has done well enough to establish itself as a stand alone genre, don't you think it has been entertaining a good amount of people to a certain extent? Entertainment varies from person to person, if if you don't like a certain type of genre, plenty of others will. Fanservice is something that's going to exist in not all but anime, simply because it's what caters to the quite perverted nature of otakus these days. It's what brings in the dough, just as orion says. Fanservice sells.

It's similar to the situation regarding the video game industry right now. What do people expect from video games? Something with a great story, fun gameplay, good characters, and what not. Problem is the industry is currently filled to the brim with carnival themed games and mini-game collections. Why? Because it's what sells, even more than the actual quality games, sad as that may be. It's a whole different genre of video games that caters to a completely different audience in which I'm not a part of, but I don't believe they should dumb down on making them, because it could also quite easily be ignored. So by your line of thinking, this can also be seen as video games introducing people and making video games popular in the wrong way.

I can see where you're coming from, but I also don't agree. You just have to look for the needle in the haystack, as there are still plenty of great shows out there for you to watch and would cater to your interests. Sure, you're going to get a Queen's Blade every season or so, but did you shove that aside and see Higashi no Eden hiding right behind it? You can kindly let Queen's Blade air for those who enjoy that kind of stuff, while you yourself can watch something well crafted and highly story driven like Higashi no Eden. Just as an fyi, even something like Higashi no Eden has a tint of fanservice.

Yes, you're not going to find a diamond in the rough every season. That's just how it goes, people are afraid to take risks, and they rather stick to something that they know will sell.

alamarco 2009-06-21 12:34

I agree with Tamad.

If you don't like it, don't watch it. There are a ton of genres out there, no one forces you to watch them all. Is your dream one day to have all anime geared toward you?

Also, what's the deal with the hate on fanservice? I don't get it. No one complains when movies and sitcoms are filled to the brim with this sort of stuff. You can't watch a movie or sitcome without having sexual situations or a sex scene. So why does no one mention anything about that? You never hear any grip about it. Is it because it's real humans vs animated humans?

Kudryavka 2009-06-21 12:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by alamarco (Post 2464604)
If you don't like it, don't watch it.

That's just what I was trying not to say. I meant it, but I was gonna get there eventually. :p

But yes, Firechick, don't watch one certain genre of anime and bitch about it. If that genre doesn't fit you, go somewhere else. That genre fits someone else though, and that's why it even exists. Each genre caters to a certain audience, and fanservice themed shows obviously don't cater to you.

Reckoner 2009-06-21 13:09

No, not anymore than any other entertainment medium.

If you have problems with what you mentioned, you have problems with the entertainment industry in general.

Fan service can be easily ignored. There are many shows that are devoid of the blatant echi, so it is not as if you are forced to watch this type of stuff in every show.

I do agree that it is usually annoying to watch the usual "boob grabs" in like 1000000000 different anime shows, but it is not so bad as to kill the story for me.

Theowne 2009-06-21 13:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by alamarco (Post 2464604)
Also, what's the deal with the hate on fanservice? I don't get it. No one complains when movies and sitcoms are filled to the brim with this sort of stuff. You can't watch a movie or sitcome without having sexual situations or a sex scene. So why does no one mention anything about that? You never hear any grip about it. Is it because it's real humans vs animated humans?

Fanservice doesn't mean "sexual situations or a sex scene". It means sexual content which doesn't have any direct relevance what's going on in the anime and doesn't contribute anything to the story.

Anyways I have no problem avoiding shows which have a lot of this, so the OP shouldn't either. I agree that a lot of anime is junk in this way, but just look for the better stuff. Eg. This season, Eden of the East, Cross Game, among others. It's not too hard.

Eater of All 2009-06-21 13:33

I think the problem here is that anime is glorified a tad too much. Anime is an entertainment medium / business product, not some work of art. Rather, it can be a "work of art" if the consumers wants it as such, which is obviously not the case in modern society seeing as how fanservice does sell. Anime adapts according to the major consumers' demands and wants; it's in no way getting "tarnished" so much as just catering to the otakus' wallets.

It's all part of natural/artificial selection.

Quote:

Originally Posted by alamarco (Post 2464604)
If you don't like it, don't watch it.

You know, it's possible to not watch it and still hate it. Throwing the "don't watch it" line only attacks the person and not the topic itself.

Sasano 2009-06-21 13:35

To be honest, Firechick is just being Childish.To be honest the only reason I dont like Fan-service is because I'm often talking to my little brother or mother while I'm watching anime and while I understand why fan-service needs to be there but they obviously don't and I would prefer if they don't get the wrong idea about me.

I was gonna post something similar to what Tamad said, so I'll just tell you to re-read what he said.Business is Business and if a few panty shots serve as a selling point to an anime that would have otherwise not to make it to production necessary than go for it, if a Moe cast is needed to sell something as mainstream to bring me a beautiful experience like CLANNAD then so be it.

I would suggest that you understand & research what you're talking about first before you go crucifying a whole industry.

Midonin 2009-06-21 13:41

I have the feeling that crying that the industry is dying (by fans) must be a regular thing happening every few years. Yet it keeps going on instead of actually dying, so it just ends up looking silly in retrospect. But history loves to repeat itself.

SeedFreedom 2009-06-21 13:51

Like with anything, when something gets popular, it gets harder to find the diamonds in the rough. Same goes for Hollywood. Does that mean there is less amazing new production of anime than before? NO. You just have to look through the muck to find it. List all your "Classics". Do you have one a year? no? Than don't expect 20 or so anime a year to all be great. Once every few years another one will come. And if you want people to stop making it cuse you dont like it, too damn bad. If people are too stupid to realize whats good and bad it's their loss, but dont be a damn big brother and demand what you call quality to be the only thing people are allowed to watch.

As well, while i'll agree echii fan-service only shows are usually lower on my greatness scale, your taste may differ. It could just be giving people different taste you don't like.


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