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-   -   Main characters don't use two handed weapons? (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=85316)

michiru 2009-08-18 09:36

Main characters don't use double weapons?
 
I guess there are a few exceptions like Levy and Lloyd
but most main characters don't use twin swords nor twin guns.
They are used by sub-characters or enemies. WHY?
I know those weapons are hard to use in reality but they are so cool!
Is there any reason?

roriconfan 2009-08-18 09:59

Does the name Driz't Do Erden rings a bell?

4Tran 2009-08-18 10:43

Among protagonists who wield pistols, dual-pistol wielders aren't really all that uncommon in anime as there's also Alucard and so forth. They are actually significantly more common than you'll find in real life since holding two pistols makes for lousy accuracy. I can think of three other reasons why protagonists go for a single pistol instead: it allows a free hand to do other things, they use pistols as part of their official capacity, and firearms are only part of their repetoire.

Wielding two swords is a lot more practical, but it's fairly uncommon probably for archetypical reasons. Most swordsmen in anime are either drawn from the European tradition (knights or fencers) or the Japanese tradition (samurai or ninja), and neither of these groups are evocative of dual-swords. Furthermore, one of the reasons to make the protagonist a sword-wielder in the first place is to make it look like he's giving it all into a fight, and that is easier to express when he's holding a sword with both hands. This is one of the reasons why protagonists so rarely use shields. In addition, two sword techniques can look evasive, and it looks more like trickery which doesn't suit the standard protagonist.

A better question might be why samurai in particular aren't known for wielding two swords. After all, one of the most famous samurai of all is Miyamoto Musashi, and he's known for the two-sword technique he invented. And nevermind that the symbol for samurai wasn't the katana - it was the daisho: a katana paired with a wakizashi. But how often do you see samurai in anime carry both weapons as opposed to a single katana?

risingstar3110 2009-08-18 11:04

I will have quite similar answers in addition with 4Tran (i always wonder where your name come from btw...):
- Dual guns: if you read Gunsmith Cat (a manga), there will be a chapter there about how dual guns not only make lower accuracy, harder to reload but also lower overall fire rate (hard to believe i knows). Because your brain hardly to shoot both gun in the same time, so it actually shoot one gun at a time, with lower accuracy and lower trigger rate... Even the cowboys of the old West were are mentioned to carry two guns only so they won't have to reload after shooting (they still shoot one each a time through).
Then low accuracy => may miss bad guys + hit innocent people. Revy do not really care about the later through (j/k)

- Dual swords: Appear more frequent as 4Tran mentioned. However it's still a secondary option because dual melee weapons(most likely sword) require very skillful users to use it effectively (and accurately). So unless the main character is already shown to be skillful fighter, he won't be a candidate for dual sword. But often most skillful main characters are designed to be cold or cool also (Kenshin, Hei...etc....) while duel sword give out very flashy attack motions

Ash Falls Town 2009-08-18 11:12

If certain weapons are hard to use and uncommon in reality it makes sense that there wouldn't be as many fictional characters using them.

Even still there are main characters who dual wield. (Two handed weapons are actually weapons that you need two hands to hold.) I can think of Akazukin and Shugo off the top of my head. If you don't ignore non-mains there are of course more. (I can think of Kairi, Rimi, Mana, J.D and Oboro.)

Even still a lot of anime weapons are complected enough as it is or unsuitable for dual wielding. Even still there are plenty of mains who fight mainly with magic or are protected by the secondary characters. I'm also guessing that dual wielding is tougher making young dual wielders less realistic.

Anyway there are a lot of interesting weapons in anime. Not all of which could be adequately dual wielded and in my opinion having such diversity makes anime more interesting.

I'm also guessing duel wielding is more difficult to animate

Woopzilla 2009-08-18 11:17

Dual wielding does indeed come off as evasive... there's a character in Utawarerumono who dual wielded swords and it looked like a very evasive/agility driven style. Most protagonists don't seem to have the speedy style and favour a more tough, head-on kind of fighting. Ichigo of Bleach seems like that, taking punishment in fights rather than running around.

Furthermore, most protagonists wield dual-handed weapons, and even then they sometimes use only one hand while fighting (Claymore/Bleach).

And like stated in the posts above, to dual wield you must be very skillful and strong. It's for characters like Alucard, Brandon Heat, certain powerful characters in Bleach and so on.

Sugar_Prayer 2009-08-18 11:53

I can come up with a few examples of main characters who use two-handed weapons.
.....
.....
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I think wielding a one-handed weapon (such as a sword for example) represents strength or power. After all, in most of the anime shows I've seen, its the "good guy" who "wins."

roriconfan 2009-08-18 12:19

You guys try to explain things based on reality. What does reality have to do with action anime? Here is the honest truth of why leads don't use twin weapons.

1) Two average swords look less phalic/cool than one huge cool sword
2) Twin weapons are boring. One hand is left free to use a secondary weapon to spice battles.
3) Twin weapons make the character to look too cymetrical, something that looks boring unless you are Death the Kid.

MidnightViper88 2009-08-18 13:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by roriconfan (Post 2589296)
1) Two average swords look less phalic/cool than one huge cool sword
2) Twin weapons are boring. One hand is left free to use a secondary weapon to spice battles.
3) Twin weapons make the character to look too cymetrical, something that looks boring unless you are Death the Kid.

Now I don't know about "twin" weapons being one-in-the-same, but in either case in a more general format, duel weapons or weapons used in pair with each other do have their practical purposes, and if you worry about aesthetics, then that's usually nothing to worry about either...

A Samurai duel-wielding a katana and wakizashi, a Shaolin monk wielding twin hooks, a Scottish highlander with a dirk and targe, a Spartan with a shield and spear...

If you're looking at this from a purely aesthetical viewpoint, then that's left up to opinionated debate, but there are practical combat techniques to such things...

Now, going akimbo with firearms is a different thing, but that's not to say that the person has to fire both firearms at the same time as each other...

willyvereb 2009-08-18 13:58

Actually there's plenty of them, but yeah they're declining.
Practicality reasons:
One weapon is much easier to control. Wielding and coordinating two melee weapons are difficult. It may had it's advantages in groups, but as others said needs serious skill. And perhaps because of those reasons it's fairly uncommon and hardly has anywhere traditions.
Character design reasons:
Actually, dual swords came out of fashion. Nowadays' male characters following the bishounen-style art. It perhaps means the character must be as cool as possible with beuty. While dual sword fighting is quite spectacular and good, but it's not "cool"(meaning leans more towards the cold/serious than to the awesome). Muscle-bound steroid-pumped main characters are really rare(to be honest even as side characters). So huge weapons are looking only foolish too.

I directly not mentioned dual pistols, because they're still popular even for main characters, or I think so. Actually it's decline equals the decline of gun-fighting main characters.

roriconfan 2009-08-18 14:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by MidnightViper88 (Post 2589420)
If you're looking at this from a purely aesthetical viewpoint, then that's left up to opinionated debate, but there are practical combat techniques to such things...

Well, excuse me, did anyone ever question the fighting skill of Levy or Alucard or Death the Kid for using two guns at the same time? It has nothing to do with realistic combat. It is ALL ABOUT asthetics.

Quote:

Originally Posted by willyvereb (Post 2589496)
Actually there's plenty of them, but yeah they're declining.
Practicality reasons:
One weapon is much easier to control. Wielding and coordinating two melee weapons are difficult. It may had it's advantages in groups, but as others said needs serious skill. And perhaps because of those reasons it's fairly uncommon and hardly has anywhere traditions.
Character design reasons:
Actually, dual swords came out of fashion. Nowadays' male characters following the bishounen-style art. It perhaps means the character must be as cool as possible with beuty. While dual sword fighting is quite spectacular and good, but it's not "cool"(meaning leans more towards the cold/serious than to the awesome). Muscle-bound steroid-pumped main characters are really rare(to be honest even as side characters). So huge weapons are looking only foolish too.

I directly not mentioned dual pistols, because they're still popular even for main characters, or I think so. Actually it's decline equals the decline of gun-fighting main characters.

There is no decline of any sorts as far as weapons of choice go. The only decline I see is the sword. Every hero and mecha of the past centuries used to carry one. Nowadays, the sword is the first form or base before becoming something else.

Haak 2009-08-18 14:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by roriconfan (Post 2589544)
Well, excuse me, did anyone ever question the fighting skill of Levy or Alucard or Death the Kid for using two guns at the same time? It has nothing to do with realistic combat. It is ALL ABOUT asthetics.

To be fair that's entirely subjective. He's asked by dual wielding is so uncommon with main protagonists even though he thinks they're so cool and you're counterpoint is that you think they aren't cool.

KholdStare 2009-08-18 14:42

I've always thought that it makes the main character shine. Using one-handed swords or two swords shows that the main character has skill or uses strategy and speed. Using two-handed weapons shows that the person is a berserker of some sort, often portraying him as "evil" or some "big bad guy who needs to be defeated".

But once again, that's what I imagine whenever I see it, anyways. Even in Bleach where Ichigo often dual-wields, the sword's final form is one-handed.

willyvereb 2009-08-18 15:26

Not exactly...The way I think weapon styles show the characters are:
-Two-handed: Power-type(not neccessary bersrker...skillfull swordplay entirely possible)
-Dual blades: Flashy, Exotic.(main focus on surprise)
-Dual wield(main and off-hand weapon): Skill, trickery(surprise again, but with a different way of presenting)
-Single sword/weapon: Technique(partially connected with the serious katana/samurai hype)

KholdStare 2009-08-18 15:43

But that's how it makes sense to me, and what you said makes sense to you. For example, I will never consider two-handed swords as "skillful swordplay," and this is a personal opinion that cannot be changed by facts.

Kafriel 2009-08-18 16:02

Well, it's a very simple matter, the casual action story involves a lone angel/demon/magic/possessed sword to be claimed by the hero in order to fight, etc.,etc. Having one instead of two makes it easier to come up with fight scenes, since most heroes of the past were 2H fans (see Kenshin,Samurai Deeper, Rave, Chrono Cross,Fate/stay night,etc.). Having one also makes the weapon unique, in the sense that only the hero can use it, and gives off the feeling of "heavy" or powerful for the weapon itself.
On the other hand, I'm a fan of dual wielders, having two of a weapon usually means better or at least newer battle choreography, could possibly involve a plot twist of discord between the hero's weapons or theft of one to be used against the other and god knows what else. I think the hero shows off his strength and not the weapons, like comparing Haseo and Tri-Edge from .hack/ROOTS or Ichigo and Zangetsu from BLEACH, it's not about the weapon, but how you use it.

michiru 2009-08-19 01:24

I made a mistake!
Yeah. I mean double weapons. Not two handed.
I can't edit the title anymore!

roriconfan 2009-08-19 03:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by willyvereb (Post 2589656)
Not exactly...The way I think weapon styles show the characters are:
-Two-handed: Power-type(not neccessary bersrker...skillfull swordplay entirely possible)
-Dual blades: Flashy, Exotic.(main focus on surprise)
-Dual wield(main and off-hand weapon): Skill, trickery(surprise again, but with a different way of presenting)
-Single sword/weapon: Technique(partially connected with the serious katana/samurai hype)

A one hand weapon can easily become a two handed weapon. Zaraki in Bleach had the epiphany to hold it with both hands and double his power. It ony took him a century to think about it, lol.

In the 3rd version of D&D, you could hold any one hand weapon with both hands for some extra damage. The opposite though is not possible without some weird exotic feat.

In Bleach again, two captains have a bankai that turns their one sword into two dual blades. I assume they are amfidexterous (if you can assume ghosts have an off hand or if the series makes any sense at all).

I don't remember any character in any series with a dual wield.

Shadow Kira01 2009-08-19 03:23

Here are a list of protagonists who wield dual weapons:

Archer (Fate/Stay Night: Unlimited Blade Works)
Dante (Devil May Cry)
Musashi (GUN-Dou Musashi)
Revy (Black Lagoon)
Silvernale (Growlanser IV)
Unknown Heaven Blade Receiver (Legend of Regios)

Quote:

Originally Posted by michiru (Post 2590592)
I made a mistake!
Yeah. I mean double weapons. Not two handed.
I can't edit the title anymore!

You just need to edit the opening post by clicking on "edit", then "go advanced". Just change the title and gave a reason for editing, it should work. And also, do you mean "protagonists" or "main characters" as that makes a difference and there are tons of main characters who wield dual weapons.

roriconfan 2009-08-19 03:26

^ Did you forget Alucard?


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