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-   -   Of Coordinators, Anti-shadows and more. (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=86077)

ZephyrLeanne 2009-09-09 08:54

Of Coordinators, Anti-shadows and more.
 
All right people. I'm going to ask some really really tough questions, so listen up.
All the ideas mentioned below are considered remotely scientifically possible, just a matter of when.

They all encompass the idea of humanity, or "what would happen if these were to happen?" After all, cyborgs were so '80s, they are in existence today. Did you know that if your grandfather (or anyone else for that matter), has at least 2 artificial, electronic implants, that's enough to warrant one as part-cyborg? So just a pacemaker and a hearing aid (in-ear, at least) is enough to qualify?

OK, that's so old already. What I want to discuss are the following.

1. Genetically enhanced human beings

With the advent of stem cell technology, this is possibly something that could happen in the future, provided that we have ultra-liberal governments all the way, that would be far far far more liberal than anything we have in the US today (maybe the Social Democrats in Germany would be closer to it.)

However, those of you who watched Gundam Seed, that "boyband-in-space" series (as I've taken a liking to calling it) would know that they have enhanced traits including faster learning, and stronger and faster bodies that are virtually immune to diseases.

Thus, creating another race altogether that is over and above cultural races like Chinese, Japanese, European, Jew, Hispanic, Indian, African-American... and the list goes on. And moreover, it'd take at least 3 generations before it'd die down, IF they all marry within the circle. Or else.

So, with that, at least one researcher in Korea has acknowledged the possibility of such a situation. What's your take on this? Will you welcome such people? Will you abhor them? Or will you just stay away?

2. Androids
Closer to reality.

From this stocky, cubey onehttp://img5.imageshack.us/img5/5615/...daasimo.th.jpg,

to this familiar onehttp://img5.imageshack.us/img5/7788/datatng.th.jpg,


Getting there, http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/758...idder01.th.jpg

and something far more realistichttp://img36.imageshack.us/img36/6900/429pxever1.th.jpg

to a caring one (albeit, probably programmed, though we do see some flexibility) http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/535...package.th.jpg

and finally, one with REAL emotions. (that she gets along the way.)
http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/451/b...d0a8893.th.jpg

Six different androids, six different faces, and six different levels of development. All the way to level 4, they are kinda all real (yes, even the Star Trek one has been reproduced in Korea). We would then likely move to Stage 5 and finally, 6.

BUT WAIT. As undeniably cute Aigis is, what if they were to have so much emotions, they begun rioting? Would it cause an upheaval like Tiananmen?

And besides, what would happen if they displace organic humans like you and me, like I, Robot? (though that's robots, not androids)

Or, what if an android were to head a state? The UN? Could we suffer, or can we prosper with them? It's your call...

(I'll add more as I go along..)

Gin 2009-09-09 09:11

We already have this thread
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=1774&page=129

and this one:

http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=85467

SaintessHeart 2009-09-09 09:17

Well they have got to be weak in some way. Therefore they are just like the rest of us.

Those no-lifers working on the HGP (yes no-lifers, they GAVE their life to the project) have determined that we ONLY have 30,000 genes, so which means that each gene can perform multiple functions. The large number of base pairs came from 30,000! combinations. And because base pair came from opposite complementary DNA and RNA strands, it is impossible to have all the positive traits in a single human being. Coords are CLOSEST to being perfect humans, but they are not.

Besides, mutation can occur. Gamma radiation is known to cause deformity, maybe because it is able to break up the strands at their molecular level, and through natural hydrogen bonding, the strands bond with other broken parts irregularly (THIS IS JUST MY THEORY. PLEASE CORRECT IF I AM WRONG), thus naturals are also able to mutate into Coords if done correctly.

Though I am undoubtedly jealous of my peers who are stronger and smarter than I, I am not against them. It is their gift, and it is theirs to make use of, something which I can covet but can never get.

Genetic engineering should be used to create cuter girls and prettier moekkos, not another race of super-intelligent beings.

ZephyrLeanne 2009-09-09 09:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gin (Post 2633934)

The first link DOES pertain to androids. But not much on co-ordinators and genetic engineering.

Second one - Rickroll! :heh:

Quote:

Genetic engineering should be used to create cuter girls and prettier moekkos, not another race of super-intelligent beings.
Agreed.

Gin 2009-09-09 09:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShimatheKat (Post 2633959)
Second one - :heh:

gotcha :heh:

yezhanquan 2009-09-09 10:44

Personally, I feel that the scenario in Gundam Seed would very likely appear in real life. It's more of a "when" rather than an "if".

ZephyrLeanne 2009-09-09 11:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by yezhanquan (Post 2634089)
Personally, I feel that the scenario in Gundam Seed would very likely appear in real life. It's more of a "when" rather than an "if".

Mainly it's a legal issue. Will the governments around the world allow it or not? And thus, would YOU want YOUR government to allow it? Singapore is a good barometer. It's halfway in between liberal and conservative. (At least, the current one is, LKY and Goh were very conservative-but that's not too surprising for a nascent nation of 30 at that time)

So, would YOU?

Vexx 2009-09-09 11:56

The mechanics and hardware for androids are moving along faster than research into AI. Sentience is part of the class of Hard Problems. I tend to think the AI problem can, in principle, be solved but it isn't just a matter of faking it or programming enough IF statements. Neural core simulations show promise but we're still playing with Legos rather than building skyscrapers. My suspicion is that the first true self-motivated androids will have a core system of organic neural tissue (brainzzz). They will have to be *taught* (educated) and *raised* (given a value system).

Genetic enhancement (or at least *repair*) is already happening but on an individual basis. I think if you told a general population that certain problems (e.g. obesity) could be eliminated with it -- they'd be onboard for that. So, "super race" is likely to happen incrementally rather than as a concerted task, and the benefits likely spread throughout the population. Eliminating acne would be high on any teenager's list I assume :)

It isn't possible to be "immune to disease" (that's where we move into High Fantasy)... viruses are superb at mutating and adapting. We can eliminate a lot of the old weaknesses - but there will always be a response.

The poll doesn't seem to actually be asking a question or providing meaningful answers though... incomplete sentences and not enough nouns?

ZephyrLeanne 2009-09-09 12:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vexx (Post 2634192)
The mechanics and hardware for androids are moving along faster than research into AI. Sentience is part of the class of Hard Problems. I tend to think the AI problem can, in principle, be solved but it isn't just a matter of faking it or programming enough IF statements. Neural core simulations show promise but we're still playing with Legos rather than building skyscrapers. My suspicion is that the first true self-motivated androids will have a core system of organic neural tissue (brainzzz). They will have to be *taught* (educated) and *raised* (given a value system).

Genetic enhancement (or at least *repair*) is already happening but on an individual basis. I think if you told a general population that certain problems (e.g. obesity) could be eliminated with it -- they'd be onboard for that. So, "super race" is likely to happen incrementally rather than as a concerted task, and the benefits likely spread throughout the population. Eliminating acne would be high on any teenager's list I assume :)

It isn't possible to be "immune to disease" (that's where we move into High Fantasy)... viruses are superb at mutating and adapting. We can eliminate a lot of the old weaknesses - but there will always be a response.


Ok, that's something to think about. So, in your opinion, how far in android technology should we go before we need to apply the brakes? We're already at Stage 4 (in first post), so how far?

Vexx 2009-09-09 13:34

heh.. I don't think any brakes need to be applied. Android mechanics research directly feeds into prosthetics advancement for the disabled. The AI sentience problem means its still quite a long way before anyone would let a 100 pound appliance wander around a household unsupervised while it tries to navigate the chaos of cleaning, laundry, cooking, etc.

As my systems begin to fail, I'd be quite interested in any "cyborg" replacement prosthetics that were available... however, regrowing new organics with stem cell research may end up being the best solution for failing organs (and revitalizing the brain with stem cell related injections that won't screw up the existing matrix).

ZephyrLeanne 2009-09-09 13:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vexx (Post 2634360)
heh.. I don't think any brakes need to be applied. Android mechanics research directly feeds into prosthetics advancement for the disabled. The AI sentience problem means its still quite a long way before anyone would let a 100 pound appliance wander around a household unsupervised while it tries to navigate the chaos of cleaning, laundry, cooking, etc.

Well, I DON'T want Aegis cooking for me, not just yet... who knows what'll come out of it.

-KarumA- 2009-09-09 16:02

we'd prob all be dead by the time the make coordinators or RL androids that are THAT advanced D:

yezhanquan 2009-09-09 19:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShimatheKat (Post 2634116)
Mainly it's a legal issue. Will the governments around the world allow it or not? And thus, would YOU want YOUR government to allow it? Singapore is a good barometer. It's halfway in between liberal and conservative. (At least, the current one is, LKY and Goh were very conservative-but that's not too surprising for a nascent nation of 30 at that time)

So, would YOU?

I don't know, really. In Gundam Seed, the first generation of Co-ordinators was created in secret, or at least without extensive public knowledge. Once it came out into the open, the problem cannot be dismissed out of hand.

So, whether I'll accept it really depends on how the situation unfolds. If the Co-ordinators just suddenly announce their presence on the media, then after the shock, we'll have to accept that the rice has already been cooked.

ZephyrLeanne 2009-09-09 23:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by yezhanquan (Post 2634946)
I don't know, really. In Gundam Seed, the first generation of Co-ordinators was created in secret, or at least without extensive public knowledge. Once it came out into the open, the problem cannot be dismissed out of hand.

So, whether I'll accept it really depends on how the situation unfolds. If the Co-ordinators just suddenly announce their presence on the media, then after the shock, we'll have to accept that the rice has already been cooked.

Then again, we COULD employ mankind's greatest weapon.

Segregation. (and Apartheid.)

No joke here, man. It's a preemptive strike, the nationalists will tell you.


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