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-   -   The Movie of the Disappearance of Haruhi Suzumiya (Impressions/Reviews) (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=93015)

aegisofrime 2011-01-04 20:38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khu (Post 3422143)
It's probably just me, but I found the opening to be...weirdly boring. I thought there'd be more in there, but it's probably because I've read the novels ^^;

And/or that was the decided effect they wanted for the opening, since the rest is kinda batshit crazy XD
Somebody stated earlier in the thread (was it Gamer_2k4?) that KyoAni probably did it intentionally, to contrast Kyon's life before and after the transformation.

Hooves 2011-01-04 21:16
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisofrime (Post 3422579)
Somebody stated earlier in the thread (was it Gamer_2k4?) that KyoAni probably did it intentionally, to contrast Kyon's life before and after the transformation.
It would give the fans a good idea on how things went before the transformation, and how Kyon deeply wanted it back.

idiffer 2011-01-04 21:35
dunno if anyone said this, but its not clear to me why nagato chose such a roundabout way of doing things. japanese logic is japanese...OR...all mangakas are at the mental level of high school kids. come on, it would have been easier to just ASK kyon what kind of world would he like to live in instead of throwing the poor chap into shock. AND THEN having him play a stupid game to see if he actually wanted to stay in the other world. which btw was with a time limit, which makes no sense cause kyon doesn't have enough time to make a decision. yes in the movie it was conveniently made so that he HAS enough time, but for me that is unbelievable. he would have needed to explore the world a little better to make a decision.
and also i kinda can't comprehend why nagato turned herself into another person. that = killing herself. and you wouldn't do that for someone you barely know. so she loved kyon or smth? enough to sacrifice her memories? but then again, why couldn't she just keep them and pretend she erased them?
the movie is good, but the plot holes are bugging me...

Hooves 2011-01-04 21:43
Quote:
Originally Posted by idiffer (Post 3422684)
dunno if anyone said this, but its not clear to me why nagato chose such a roundabout way of doing things. japanese logic is japanese...OR...all mangakas are at the mental level of high school kids. come on, it would have been easier to just ASK kyon what kind of world would he like to live in instead of throwing the poor chap into shock. AND THEN having him play a stupid game to see if he actually wanted to stay in the other world. which btw was with a time limit, which makes no sense cause kyon doesn't have enough time to make a decision. yes in the movie it was conveniently made so that he HAS enough time, but for me that is unbelievable. he would have needed to explore the world a little better to make a decision.
and also i kinda can't comprehend why nagato turned herself into another person. that = killing herself. and you wouldn't do that for someone you barely know. so she loved kyon or smth? enough to sacrifice her memories? but then again, why couldn't she just keep them and pretend she erased them?
the movie is good, but the plot holes are bugging me...
Nagato barely knew "John Smith" it was only Haruhi that knew about him, which triggered the event that actually got him to go back to the time he was before. Asking Kyon would have been sorta pointless, he would have probably been comical about it and say "Yeah, as long as I can get away from all this annoyance" or probably be clueless about it and say "I don't know, why do you ask" and with all the time that Nagato has been with Kyon, he knew all too well that she was an alien. So Nagato with her feelings for Kyon, created an alternative world for him to live in. Trying to see if he would approve of Nagato's human personality over her alien personality. Also seeing if he really wanted to be with Haruhi's world, where he was constantly dragged into things that he din't want to. But had to because if he din't it would cause things to go really wrong. So it was something Nagato had to confirm for herself on what Kyon exactly wants. Does he want a world where he was constantly dragged around? Or does he want a quiet, peaceful life with Nagato? Well it would have been better if he wasn't alienated from his friend Mikuru. But yeah, it was all based on Nagato's hidden feelings that she couldn't erase because she treasured them so. She probably put a time limit on it because she din't know of it, or that would be long enough for Kyon to make his decision.

Or that is how I saw it.

idiffer 2011-01-04 21:57
1) in the end kyon still got dragged around, this time by nagato. lol.
2) its always better to ask a person what he wants. its your type of "mind reading" that prevents ppl from being simple and effective in their interactions. you don't know what kyon would have answered. AND that is not the point...
3) john smith ???? i was talking about kyon...its not like a human interface would fall in love with a petty human just by being near him during club activities and not talking to him. they had like 1 or 2 conversations that can be called remotely normal.
4) what was the point in kyon approving of nagato's human personality? IF she lost all her memories. its a different person. it can be said that it is not nagato anymore.

Hooves 2011-01-04 22:45
Quote:
Originally Posted by idiffer (Post 3422707)
3) john smith ???? i was talking about kyon...its not like a human interface would fall in love with a petty human just by being near him during club activities and not talking to him. they had like 1 or 2 conversations that can be called remotely normal.
4) what was the point in kyon approving of nagato's human personality? IF she lost all her memories. its a different person. it can be said that it is not nagato anymore.
John Smith is Kyon.... Did I misunderstand your post? :confused: Also love can happen on strange occasions, so anything can happen.

She still wanted what was best for Kyon in her own opinion, so she simply recreated the world in an image that would probably approve with Kyon.

aegisofrime 2011-01-04 23:41
Quote:
Originally Posted by idiffer (Post 3422684)
dunno if anyone said this, but its not clear to me why nagato chose such a roundabout way of doing things. japanese logic is japanese...OR...all mangakas are at the mental level of high school kids. come on, it would have been easier to just ASK kyon what kind of world would he like to live in instead of throwing the poor chap into shock. AND THEN having him play a stupid game to see if he actually wanted to stay in the other world. which btw was with a time limit, which makes no sense cause kyon doesn't have enough time to make a decision. yes in the movie it was conveniently made so that he HAS enough time, but for me that is unbelievable. he would have needed to explore the world a little better to make a decision.
and also i kinda can't comprehend why nagato turned herself into another person. that = killing herself. and you wouldn't do that for someone you barely know. so she loved kyon or smth? enough to sacrifice her memories? but then again, why couldn't she just keep them and pretend she erased them?
the movie is good, but the plot holes are bugging me...
Nagaru Tanigawa isn't a mangaka, he writes light novels. First fail there.

The time limit is probably because, as I observed earlier in this topic, of her observation of Kyon during Endless Eight. That man is one hell of a procrastinator. If there wasn't a time limit he would have just gotten used to the new world... Instead of being forced to decide which one he liked better. I personally think 2 days is just right.

Also, as for exploring the world. Notice how the keys were to get the SOS-Dan members into the clubroom. To me, this had a special significance. It gave Kyon a very good comparison of "Before" and "After". Did he like a SOS-Dan made up of normal people, or one with Espers, Time Travelers and Aliens?

As for Yuki killing herself... You can think of it that way. But even so, perhaps she is THAT selfless? And I think Yuki knows Kyon well enough. After all, she spent 595 years together with him :)

It also begs the question of where Alt!Yuki got her personality from. If it was the emotions that grew within her, isolated and condensed into Alt!Yuki, then part of Alien Yuki still lives on.

There really aren't that many plotholes, you probably just need to watch it again, as it seems your understanding isn't complete. Early on in life when I started writing stories, I realized that questions like, "Why didn't character A do this, instead of that" are pointless. Pretty soon you have to justify every action a character took, instead of writing a good story. Why did you eat what you had for breakfast this morning? You probably just felt like it, instead of thinking hard about it.

idiffer 2011-01-04 23:55
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisofrime (Post 3422825)
Nagaru Tanigawa isn't a mangaka, he writes light novels. First fail there.

The time limit is probably because, as I observed earlier in this topic, of her observation of Kyon during Endless Eight. That man is one hell of a procrastinator. If there wasn't a time limit he would have just gotten used to the new world... Instead of being forced to decide which one he liked better. I personally think 2 days is just right.

Also, as for exploring the world. Notice how the keys were to get the SOS-Dan members into the clubroom. To me, this had a special significance. It gave Kyon a very good comparison of "Before" and "After". Did he like a SOS-Dan made up of normal people, or one with Espers, Time Travelers and Aliens?

As for Yuki killing herself... You can think of it that way. But even so, perhaps she is THAT selfless? And I think Yuki knows Kyon well enough. After all, she spent 595 years together with him :)

It also begs the question of where Alt!Yuki got her personality from. If it was the emotions that grew within her, isolated and condensed into Alt!Yuki, then part of Alien Yuki still lives on.

There really aren't that many plotholes, you probably just need to watch it again, as it seems your understanding isn't complete. Early on in life when I started writing stories, I realized that questions like, "Why didn't character A do this, instead of that" are pointless. Pretty soon you have to justify every action a character took, instead of writing a good story. Why did you eat what you had for breakfast this morning? You probably just felt like it, instead of thinking hard about it.
mangaka, writer - doesn't matter. no fail there. just me being drunk...
and i did write a 20 page chapter of my novel (authonomy.com). and before that i constructed the whole universe and thought out the reasons for most of the char's actions SPECIFICALLY so nobody could point a finger and say "ha, there's a plot hole. char's do things against their nature".
2) whats so bad about getting used to the new world? if he does - then...lol, profit, good for him.
3) yeah lol, kyon accidentally stumbled upon the sos dan in the new world. he didn't even do anything. he didn't KNOW what to do. that is another miss on yuki's part. (not enough clues)
4) part of alien yuki...so what? she cant remember anything. point is moot.memories are EVERYTHING. no memories - no person.

aegisofrime 2011-01-05 00:19
I don't have time to address all your points as I'm preparing to go to school now, but I do want to argue one point.

We do not always think through all our actions. If you have learned social psychology there's such a thing called "Cognitive Economy". When confronted with stimulus, depending on how important it is and how much time we have, we leave it to automatic processing. This automatic processing is determined by our personality.

For example, if I were queuing up at McDonald's and I just want to have my lunch really quick, I might just go for what I always have, a Double Cheeseburger. I don't think it through, I just say to myself, "Let's have a double cheeseburger".

My point? The most logical action available to a person may not be what he chooses. In fact, that course of action might not even be apparent to a person. Lastly, The most logical action doesn't always make the best story.

idiffer 2011-01-05 00:45
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisofrime (Post 3422876)
I don't have time to address all your points as I'm preparing to go to school now, but I do want to argue one point.

We do not always think through all our actions. If you have learned social psychology there's such a thing called "Cognitive Economy". When confronted with stimulus, depending on how important it is and how much time we have, we leave it to automatic processing. This automatic processing is determined by our personality.

For example, if I were queuing up at McDonald's and I just want to have my lunch really quick, I might just go for what I always have, a Double Cheeseburger. I don't think it through, I just say to myself, "Let's have a double cheeseburger".

My point? The most logical action available to a person may not be what he chooses. In fact, that course of action might not even be apparent to a person. Lastly, The most logical action doesn't always make the best story.
example relevant to haruhi needed...
its the authors job to make a logical action interesting in a story. ...and most seem to fail, i've noticed. often for the sake of the plot going forward, the author will make the char's do very stupid things. for me an illogical action does not make a good story. the irony is, most times it tries to come off as logical and serious, while taking its viewers for fools. (its a whole other story if the anime is a parody or just doesn't take itself seriously (gurren lagann)) a good example of logical-dramatical is princess mononoke. its frickin hard to tell who is the bad guy there at first...

Sackett 2011-01-05 01:01
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrowKenobi (Post 3419878)
I have no problem with that as long as the discussion doesn't get into detail of why he went back, the motivations of those who went with him, and what happened after Kyon blacked out.
None of which were we discussing.

Only the metaphysical necessity of Kyon doing what we saw him doing, and the probable catastrophic results if he doesn't.

CrowKenobi 2011-01-05 01:09
If the discussion can be kept within the events depicted in the movie, then I have no problems with it. :D

And it might help to use properly labeled spoiler tags for any speculation of those probable catastrophic results...

EternalDestiny 2011-01-05 14:55
Can anyone help me identify the instrumental music that plays during the scene with Kyon and Nagato on the rooftop when it started to snow?

Brushfire 2011-01-05 16:06
I honestly found this movie to be utterly fantastic. I wasn't sure whether I should watch it or not at first, being as I liked the first season and was incredibly frustrated (as I'm sure many were) by the second season. But I decided that I had nothing better to do and to watch it anyway.

I wasn't disappointed in the slightest. It had the usual great art, thankfully leaning less towards K-ON!'s as S2 seemed to, and the animation we'd all expect from KyoAni by now. That didn't ever worry me. What was a great surprise to me (having not read the light novels nor the manga and only really following the anime) was the fantastic story that the movie had. Creative, not just a moefest, had some great turns and the possibility that it didn't even happen at all. Though we all know it did. Looking forward to more after that and hopefully season 3 (or another movie) will be as good as this and give some hope to the series.

Shiroth 2011-01-05 17:05
Quote:
Originally Posted by EternalDestiny (Post 3423676)
Can anyone help me identify the instrumental music that plays during the scene with Kyon and Nagato on the rooftop when it started to snow?
It's titled Gymnopedie No. 1, by famous composer Erik Satie. It's actually used a number of times during the film.

-When Nagato is telling Kyon about how they first met in the Library.
-After Nagato tells Kyon who the culprit is.
-& there's an orchestra version used when Nagato beings to change the world.

All versions can be found on the official soundtrack release of the film.

KeroKai 2011-01-05 17:57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant (Post 3414761)
I highlighted the key words here: "in the first place".

Why do you think Kyon needs to go back in time BEFORE he was stabbed?

That sentence makes no sense! You only need cause to happen before the effect, if you don't have time travel.

Let me explain it this way.

A Time traveller was born in 3000AD. He went into a time machine and appeared in 1000AD. There, he was killed and died.

But how could he have died? He wasn't born yet in 1000AD! How could someone die, if they weren't born "in the first place"?

And here lies your logic flaw. That something has to happen in a fixed order. If you have a time machine, you can die at a time before you are born. The argument that "Kyon can't save himself" is the same one as "You can't die before you are born". And the argument boils down to "it is not possible unless you have a time machine".

Thus, if you HAVE a time machine, you can save your younger self from death if that was factored in the time loop. "When" something happened, does not matter, when you can manipulate time itself.

Without a time machine, we are trapped in the timestream like a quadriplegic is trapped on his bed. Someone who can walk, would have no problem walking out of the hospital. But for a quadriplegic the exit of the hospital might as well be in another galaxy. If you have the right tools, you can manipulate time. That's all.
I don't think that's the problem that some people here (including myself) have with the paradox. The fact that he can die in AD1000 is entirely plausible since it just means that the timeline for himself is 3000AD birth -> Back to the past -> Death. It still makes logical sense.

What we don't understand is how...

Someone dies (here Kyon is dying)
Somehow a future version of him - comes back to prevent the death.

That's just illogical.

It'd be different if...

Some dies...
A future version of him (one from a different reality where he didn't originally die) comes back to saves him is plausible.

So what is it?
Can people basically save themselves after they have died?

The only possible logical explanation (which fits with the idea of time travel) is that Kyon dies. Someone travels back in time to inform him that he will die in the future. The person from the past goes to future to prevent himself from being stabbed which will produce a completely new timeline and essentially erasing the old one where he got stabbed.

I'm just going to ignore all the discussion about if he wasn't stabbed, then why would they need to go back in time to prevent him being stabbed. The point is that it occured. It existed at one point.

KeroKai 2011-01-05 18:16
Quote:
Originally Posted by idiffer (Post 3422684)
dunno if anyone said this, but its not clear to me why nagato chose such a roundabout way of doing things. japanese logic is japanese...OR...all mangakas are at the mental level of high school kids. come on, it would have been easier to just ASK kyon what kind of world would he like to live in instead of throwing the poor chap into shock. AND THEN having him play a stupid game to see if he actually wanted to stay in the other world. which btw was with a time limit, which makes no sense cause kyon doesn't have enough time to make a decision. yes in the movie it was conveniently made so that he HAS enough time, but for me that is unbelievable. he would have needed to explore the world a little better to make a decision.
and also i kinda can't comprehend why nagato turned herself into another person. that = killing herself. and you wouldn't do that for someone you barely know. so she loved kyon or smth? enough to sacrifice her memories? but then again, why couldn't she just keep them and pretend she erased them?
the movie is good, but the plot holes are bugging me...
Hmm. I personally don't think asking Kyon what world he'd prefer would do much as it's near impossible to fathom an existance that doesn't exist for yourself. Having said that, she should have made the variables a little better if asking whether he wanted this world to exist or not given that she essentially made it so that Kyon had no contact with everyone. It would have made more sense for her to create an existance with him knowing Mikaru/Koizumi/Haruhi etc without all the insane amount of magic.

It kind of makes me wonder whether she truly understands human logic... since the first thing one would normally do in a state of shock is to find a way to revert things back to normal. As for erasing herself... if she was herself, that'd mean that she'd attempt to stop Kyon from reverting the world back to normal (given that it's her wish - she wants this world.) but for some reason she trusts Kyon enough to let him decide what to do with her and everyone else's fate.

Kinda reminds me about all those times where she's asked him for permission to do stuff. What's up with that anyhow? Why does she look up to Kyon in that sense? As some sort of authority...

EternalDestiny 2011-01-06 02:26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiroth (Post 3423865)
It's titled Gymnopedie No. 1, by famous composer Erik Satie. It's actually used a number of times during the film.

-When Nagato is telling Kyon about how they first met in the Library.
-After Nagato tells Kyon who the culprit is.
-& there's an orchestra version used when Nagato beings to change the world.

All versions can be found on the official soundtrack release of the film.
Thank you! I recognize the melody from somewhere, just not from the movie itself. Tried to SoundHound it, but it did not work.

Thanks again!

BBOvenGuy 2011-01-06 13:15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiroth (Post 3423865)
It's titled Gymnopedie No. 1, by famous composer Erik Satie. It's actually used a number of times during the film.
And also used famously back in the 70s in commercials for a product called Geritol. :heh:

Yes, I'm old... :eyespin:

Vallen Chaos Valiant 2011-01-06 13:53
Quote:
Originally Posted by KeroKai (Post 3423953)
Can people basically save themselves after they have died?
The point is that he didn't die because somebody saved him. That "somebody" just happened to be his future self, that's all.

Look, Mikuru isn't even born yet, so how could she be serving Kyon tea? Because she is SUPPOSE to be serving Kyon tea, so her adult self sent her younger self to Kyon's time.

If Kyon died then no one would have saved him. But he didn't, so he was saved. The only problem was that Kyon did not immediately perform the rescue mission after the fact, but instead delayed it until later. This causes problems, because if he end up dying for ANY other reason before he could perform his own rescue mission, then he wouldn't just die; he would rip a hole in space-time by creating a paradox.

Quote:
A future version of him (one from a different reality where he didn't originally die) comes back to saves him is plausible.
That's not what happened. So it is irreverent. What happened was that Kyon was saved by himself in a pre-determined event. It's like borrowing money to pay a debt; you didn't "make" money, you just borrowed it, and you have to pay it back later. Kyon was never meant to die at any stage of the film, because Adult Mikuru knew the rescue was going to happen.

Gamer_2k4 2011-01-06 14:42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant (Post 3425168)
If Kyon died then no one would have saved him. But he didn't, so he was saved. The only problem was that Kyon did not immediately perform the rescue mission after the fact, but instead delayed it until later. This causes problems, because if he end up dying for ANY other reason before he could perform his own rescue mission, then he wouldn't just die; he would rip a hole in space-time by creating a paradox.
So this in itself is yet ANOTHER example of that freaking bootstrap paradox that keeps coming up. Kyon receives the healing from his time-divergent variant that allows him to go back in time to provide that healing in the first place. It's absolutely no different from a guy building a time machine because his future self comes back to deliver the instructions to him, or a guy digging up an object, then, ten years later, travelling back in time to bury it in that spot. In other words, predetermined or not, what happened in the movie was very definitely still a paradox.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant (Post 3425168)
What happened was that Kyon was saved by himself in a pre-determined event. It's like borrowing money to pay a debt; you didn't "make" money, you just borrowed it, and you have to pay it back later. Kyon was never meant to die at any stage of the film, because Adult Mikuru knew the rescue was going to happen.
So Kyon COULDN'T have died for any other reason (despite what you say in your first paragraph), because he was observed saving himself. Therefore, he must have stayed alive. Unless observation doesn't matter as much as you seem to think it does...

Sparvid 2011-01-06 15:40
I don't want to be spoiled about details, but a yes/no question: Are the details of the "Kyon getting pushed down the stairs by a disappearing girl"-thing explained in a later novel, or was that just some kind of vague "hiccup" in the timeline when the world got restored?

Rungelunge 2011-01-06 18:30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparvid (Post 3425286)
I don't want to be spoiled about details, but a yes/no question: Are the details of the "Kyon getting pushed down the stairs by a disappearing girl"-thing explained in a later novel, or was that just some kind of vague "hiccup" in the timeline when the world got restored?
I think is explained in vol7 prologue, but it's really so important? I don't see why it should be different from Nagato's "I specialize in data manipulation" from Melancholy.

Berlin 2011-01-06 18:52
This movie was by far the best anime movie I have seen all year!

larethian 2011-01-07 03:45
I think people are over-stepping into spoiler territory beyond speculative discussion. The only thing confirmed thing is that Kyon will go back and save himself, and he mentioned it himself at the end that he needed to do that. There's no need to add on who knows what or who doesn't know what, and how which event will tie up with which. And if there are some seemingly plot holes in the time travel, can't people just accept the possibility that things might be cleared up at a later date since the story is still ongoing? *Twiddling for volume 10*

Sparvid 2011-01-07 07:34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rungelunge (Post 3425579)
I think is explained in vol7 prologue, but it's really so important? I don't see why it should be different from Nagato's "I specialize in data manipulation" from Melancholy.
Nope, not important, just curious if it's some kind of ongoing plot point or just some random occurance.

KeroKai 2011-01-07 11:11
Spoiler:

s07195 2011-01-07 13:34
So much for "Impressions and Reviews"...

Hooves 2011-01-07 17:19
Quote:
Originally Posted by s07195 (Post 3426970)
So much for "Impressions and Reviews"...
Basically what I was thinking :heh: its all about discussion now.

Berlin 2011-01-07 18:16
The paradox thing can be solved in two words! Who cares!...........in the end he just speculates that he has to go back and save himself......what if the past version of him was the one that saved himself and Nagato erased his memory of that or something to that effect. Either way it can be an issue that is resolved at a latter date because there are solutions to the situation that might not be apparent yet.

Shiroth 2011-01-07 19:44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hooves (Post 3427206)
its all about discussion now.
Well that's what should be expected, seeing as though this is a discussion thread, and there is a lot to discuss about the film and it's content.

ninryu 2011-01-08 11:09
hands down, best movie ever.
Spoiler for movie:

Haak 2011-01-08 12:19
I finally saw this film a few days ago, and I must say that it's certainly great. This is coming from someone that isn't even a fan of the series. In fact I don't particularly like Haruhi all that much but I decided to give this film a try since it was getting so many positive reviews.

Spoiler for my review:


Overall Score 8/10.

ijuinkun 2011-01-09 02:19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haak (Post 3428394)
Spoiler:
The reason for that, as well as most of the other background for the time-travel-related events in Disappearance, come from "Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody", if you care to check it out.

Spoiler:

kimpleng 2011-01-09 10:46
Now I'm confused with event that happen at 18th December, midnight . That mean there is three Kyon at the same world, but with time variant.
1. Kyon that sleeping in his house and had no idea that he will going through Shoushitsu event.
2. Kyon who prepared to cancel Nagato action, but got stabbed by Asakura.
3. "Future" Kyon who do the rest of the job.

Assuming the world is fixed to its original state and time is linear, what happened to Kyon who is still sleeping?

Rungelunge 2011-01-09 13:18
Quote:
Originally Posted by kimpleng (Post 3430086)
Now I'm confused with event that happen at 18th December, midnight . That mean there is three Kyon at the same world, but with time variant.
No. You should watch BLR again and you will see Kyon is already unfrozen from Nagato's room in December 18th .

Hooves 2011-01-09 15:49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rungelunge (Post 3430216)
No. You should watch BLR again and you will see Kyon is already unfrozen from Nagato's room in December 18th .
So there should only be 2 Kyons then right? When he got unfrozen, and the future Kyon?

ultimatemegax 2011-01-09 16:38
Quote:
Originally Posted by kimpleng (Post 3430086)
Now I'm confused with event that happen at 18th December, midnight . That mean there is three Kyon at the same world, but with time variant.
1. Kyon that sleeping in his house and had no idea that he will going through Shoushitsu event.
2. Kyon who prepared to cancel Nagato action, but got stabbed by Asakura.
3. "Future" Kyon who do the rest of the job.

Assuming the world is fixed to its original state and time is linear, what happened to Kyon who is still sleeping?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rungelunge (Post 3430216)
No. You should watch BLR again and you will see Kyon is already unfrozen from Nagato's room in December 18th .
I believe what kimpleng is referring to is the Kyon that we see around 18-20 minutes into the movie where he is sleeping in his own room who is unchanged by the changes of the world. Barring any off-scene events, there is indeed three versions of Kyon in the world at around 04:25 AM (JST) December 18th in precisely the exact roles mentioned, but a little later than the time given.

As for kimpleng's question, there is not enough evidence in the movie as well as the time frame your third Kyon comes from to give a satisfactory answer. I have my theory that require spoilers to discuss, so I cannot say them here.

Rungelunge 2011-01-09 16:45
Yes, sorry. I thought he meant Kyon sleeping in Nagato's room.
Indeed at the end of the movie there are 3 Kyon as one of them is sleeping in his room.

Quote:
Assuming the world is fixed to its original state and time is linear, what happened to Kyon who is still sleeping?
Exactly. time is linear, so if you want to know what happened with sleeping Kyon you only have to see the beginning of the movie. I think from December 18th to 21st the world is changed always. And they always return to 21th with their heads full of new memories about those days inculcated by Nagato.

Also if you think this has no logic, remember Nagato bites Kyon and Mikuru so everything is possible after that.

ninryu 2011-01-12 12:12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rungelunge (Post 3430488)
Yes, sorry. I thought he meant Kyon sleeping in Nagato's room.
Indeed at the end of the movie there are 3 Kyon as one of them is sleeping in his room.


Exactly. time is linear, so if you want to know what happened with sleeping Kyon you only have to see the beginning of the movie. I think from December 18th to 21st the world is changed always. And they always return to 21th with their heads full of new memories about those days inculcated by Nagato.

Also if you think this has no logic, remember Nagato bites Kyon and Mikuru so everything is possible after that.
I think it's makes sense. If the time is cyclic then in every timeline Kyon wakes up to the alternated world, gets the world back to how it was, getting stabbed by Asakura and wakes up after "falling the stairs", only to get back in time to see himself stabbed.
Then another Kyon in another timeline wakes up to alternated world and it goes over and over again. It means no matter what he'll do it will have the same conclusion because it's already been made. Quit depressing.

Kyon is destined to wake to an alternate world and Yuki is destined to change the world. I guess the only one who can escape this cycle and change both past and present is Haruhi.

Lol, your last line. Vampire!Yuki is much sexier than Edward Cullen. And it's a girl saying that.


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