I'd say anything that can be speculated from (or that is made obvious by) the movie should be fair game. Like Ijuinkun's comments. This is a "reviews" thread, so you'd expect to see descriptions of events from the movie, and speculation about hinted-at future events (confirmation, maybe not so much). The "why" is quite obvious in context, at least the primary reason why. But the "when"... *cough*

The mere fact that Kyon encountered his future self is enough of a "why"--in the Haruhiverse, once you have become aware of your future actions, they become "locked in" (the "predetermined events"). If Kyon encountered his future self in the movie, then according to the rules of Time Travel that Mikuru's group operate under, Kyon must at some later point travel back to be encountered by his younger self in order to close the time loop.

It does bug me quite a bit that everyone (especially Kyon) feels that they HAVE to do something a certain way. Okay, so you were saved, and you remember that it was yourself that did the saving. That does NOT mean you have to go back in time and actually do that! The fact that Kyon is alive means that SOMEHOW he was saved. Is he just going to disappear sometime if he never goes back? Where do you draw the line? Let's say Kyon goes his whole life without traveling back in time. Now he's on his deathbed, and there are no more chances to go to the past. Does he disappear then? If anything, now that he's back, he doesn't have to do a darn thing. He's alive! That's the end of it!

...Sorry, it just frustrates me when the only reasoning for a character's actions is "the plot requires it" or "it just has to be this way." That's a sign of poor writing, IMO.

After seeing the Movie I could die and not care in the slightest bit. ^^

Or for laughs as demonstrated in Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure. :D

Personally, I'd like to see a non-camrip version before dying. ;)

Oh sure, humor is a valid reason to do that sort of thing. No argument here.

Nagato FTW?

The only thing I was really confused about was what happened to Kyon during those three days. Did he really fall down the stairs or were they just memories created by Yuki? Also, wouldn't that mean Kyon aged three days? Or maybe everyone's memories of the alternate universe were only replaced by the new memories Yuki created but that's not possible since



I'm just totally confused on how this repairing worked :confused:

You know, I just realized that while I introduced myself on this forum and in this thread by starting a three page debate on time travel, I never explicitly said how I felt about Disappearance. Let's remedy that.

It looks like the author of the Haruhi series hit upon the solution to make the most out of his fictional world. How did he do that? Observe:

1. Get rid of the loud, annoying, crazy character.
2. Play up the only character that has any sort of usefulness.
3. Resurrect #2's rival.
4. Let everyone else fade to the background.

Upgrade it to movie form by adding great music and animation, and you have what's literally the best thing that could happen to the series (you know, short of developing the other characters).

Did that sound sarcastic or cynical? I didn't mean it to. I really did like the movie, and I'm looking forward to its DVD release. I truly think that as a part of the Haruhi series, it's the best of the novels I've read/watched (the first one is best if we're judging each independently of the others). But...what can I say? I call things like I see them.

1: But we still love Haruhi Suzumiya either way ;)
2: Koizumi had "some" usefulness as well... Well... Possibly
3: Asakura Ryoko is possibly the only rival you do not want revived no matter what
4: Agree

You need to not look at Disappearance as a movie-script, but rather as a part of the novel franchise.
The first book in the series was written to be self-contained. After been told that his stories could be continued, the issue became HOW. The SOS-dan wasn't actually much of a team at all, by the end of the first book. And if they are not much of a team then there is no long term prospects in them having adventures together. Hence major story arcs were created in order literally alter each member's position in the story.

The filming of the student film and the event leading to Live a Live was written to mellow Haruhi out, so that Kyon can reign her in when necessary.

Endless Eight and Disappearance is about adding humanising elements to Yuki, and more importantly NERF her to hell so she wouldn't become game-breaking and make all future stories impossible.

As for Itsuki and Mikuru? I won't spoil, but they got their own arcs later.

Disappearance is not written as a movie. It was one of the more popular books because the author admits that Yuki Nagato is his personal favourite. But in the end the franchise is about the SOS-dan; as in, all four of them, together. Mikuru, especially, get a HUGE storyarc, one that might well envelope everything all the way to book 10. But we will see about that. Just because Yuki was the focus in her movie doesn't mean the other characters don't matter anymore.

Eh, he just fulfilled the role of "guy who explains to the audience what's going on," like he always does.

Oh sure, from the characters' perspective, you wouldn't want her back at all. But from a plot/storytelling perspective, it's a pretty good decision.

I'm not arguing that each book and each storyline has a place in the series. But some characters by their design develop better than others (for an extreme example, Kyon's sister isn't going to develop at all without making some pretty drastic alterations), and Yuki just lends herself well to it.

The problem, to me anyway, is that developing Haruhi is so uninteresting because the best way to show that she's becoming more normal is to show her doing normal things. Normal things are...normal. She's in the odd situation where in order to be interesting/funny, she has to be a complete nut, and in order to not be a complete nut, she has to be uninteresting/boring.

I say the above largely with Sigh in mind. But other episodes, such as Live a Live and Day of Sagittarius, were good precisely because of the animated format in which they were presented. In writing, they lack the punch that they have in the anime. That's not necessarily a bad thing; for example, Haruhi's singing scene was better in the book because it was more realistic. The anime version will always be more memorable, though.

I wonder...wouldn't all the other human interfaces also suffer the same effects? Yuki remembered everything because she was a computer, not because she was close to Haruhi.



I can't speak for Itsuki, but from what I've read (Book 7), Mikuru's arc is rather lackluster. There's a difference between giving a character some time in the spotlight and actually developing them. When that book concludes, we literally know nothing more about Mikuru than we did before. In fact, it almost feels like the little bit with Haruhi (which I admit had a fun ending) was the actual story, and Mikuru's issues were just something that went on in the background (and within the story, that's exactly how it is, though it's presented the opposite way).

It's hard to develop Mikuru, who was established pretty firmly as a moe character and nothing else (she's really defined by her powerlessness). It's hard to develop Itsuki, whose only power is denied as Haruhi mellows. It's hard to develop Haruhi, because the "right" outcome for her is one where she's content and doesn't cause all the trouble that drives the stories. Kyon's easier to develop for the opposite reason: he starts out complacent, and his growth is shown by how much he decides to interfere with everything else. Yuki's easy to develop too, for the same reason. She was designed as a passive observer, so her growth occurs as she takes action.

Which characters gain the most from development? Kyon and Yuki. Which characters does Disappearance revolve around? Kyon and Yuki. That's why Disappearance is the best thing that could happen to the series.

If the Kyon that was saved doesn't go back in time, then where did the Kyon that saved him come from? It seems to me that we have to pick from one of two suppositions when dealing with the time travelling thing, 1) there is a continuity to the history, which requires that the Kyon who was saved is the Kyon that must later return, or 2) there is no continuity but alternate realities, and the Kyon that did the saving came from a variant reality.

1) This means that time travel implies predestination, which is an ugly concept. I'm not saying that's incorrect, as it's easier than the alternative; I just don't like it.

2) This is a bit trickier, but I think it would completely invalidate the purpose of Mikuru's people as "time police." Right now, from what I understand, Haruhi's "moment of godness" three years ago screwed up the time continuum pretty badly. The future that the time travelers exist in is now in danger of not existing if time doesn't occur as they remember, so they go back in time to force events that no longer seem will happen independently. Otherwise, they face the same spontaneous exclusion from reality that I questioned about happening to Kyon.

If they're not predestined to go back in time, and we accept the alternate reality theory, then they can just sit down and do nothing. Why don't they? Probably because relying on time traveling sliders to just pop in and save everyone is a ridiculously long shot (though I still maintain that logic dictates it's going to happen, since the future as it is DOES in fact exist).

Kyon's probably of the mindset that "Well I saw myself...means that I go back at some point...sooner or later." Might as well be sooner since he remembers what he said to himself now...that and Mikuru(small) was there, thus it couldn't be that much in the future (or could it...since she's...well, a time traveler). He's not encountered any sliders (other than himself perhaps) so he has no confidence in that possibility...thus he's resolved that he must do this at some point.

That may be predestination, but it also could be a choice. It depends on just how he decides to go back and save himself...or where the idea came from in the first place. Could Kyon's will to live (via either Yuki or Haruhi hax) be strong enough to have willed himself to travel in time to save his bleeding butt. Basically "I need to live...how can I live I'm bleeding out. Oh I could just save myself after I get out of all this" Poof, Mikuru(small) shows up (crying) with Kyon himself also present (also someone to stop Ryoko). Did his will to survive start the time loop, or was it something completely different?

Because so far Mikuru's time travelers seem to be correct in their ideas....seem to be. There is a few gray areas around Haruhi and Kyon and perhaps Yuki.

This is actually my biggest gripe with the series. If I'm understanding what I read correctly, what Mikuru's faction believes time to be should lead them to believe that there is no causality if they were to be consistent with that belief. Yet their mission is to preserve history as they know it? What makes them think that any action they execute in the past will have any bearing towards securing the future they know, which from their perspective is their past that has no connection to anything by their belief?

I tend to prefer things simple, and a predestinarian view isn't so ugly a concept to me.

I do like that the series dealt with the loop issue by treating changes to history as divergent realities, though I don't suppose it would be safe to discuss that much further on this thread.

More like "guy who offers an explanation to the audience of what's going on". A subtle but important distinction. Itsuki isn't necessarily right all the time...

The same answer to every other question swirling about the series: Haruhi. With her in the mix, nothing is predetermined, even if it was "before". So when events take place in which the time travelers know what (was supposed to have) happened, they need to ensure that it does. Just in case. If they succeed, great, predetermined event. If not, chalk it up to Haruhi and hope you're around to see the aftermath.

I'd like to see Asakura doing more adversarial stuff as a regular opponent/enemy as opposed to always jumping straight to the "gotta kill Kyon" part. It would be more interesting for me to see her actually forming and carrying out plots to get Haruhi to create the wanted information burst instead of just going straight for the same tactic that has already failed.

OMG, still no DVD release yet? I thought it was set for august!? :(

Well I think for certain countries, the release date was on August, but I think for some other countries, they probably extended it to September.

Eh? Several days ago the Movie (News and Anticipation) thread had confirmation of 12/18 posted.

You can still go to amazon.co.jp to see this for yourself (you couldn't when they first posted this), but if you go there, and set it to English mode, you can see that November has the first 2 Haruhi seasons coming to Blu-Ray, as well as Haruhi-Chan, and then December has the movie.

When was it ever supposed to be coming out in August or September? We've known for a while that it would still be in theaters (or be just leaving them) at this time, and movie DVDs take longer to come out than TV DVDs. Smart money's been on December 18th from the beginning, due to the in-story importance of the date.

Since the DVD is not out yet in the United States I did a quick relook at the camrip that floats around. I'm still amazed that the film's quality it so high that I forget it is a poor quality camrip, even though I've actually seen it in a theater.

You're lucky you were able to see it though :(. I'm was restricted because we had no money to travel all the way west. I would go to the New York one but even then it would be too much :(. This is how broke people live their lives, in pure agony. I just hope it comes out soon on DVD.

I was exicited when I found out there was a movie. But I'm NOT watching a cam rip. I'll wait until the DVD comes out to North America thank you very much.

Or you could try to hope they have a showing relatively close to you at a convention say. Don't know if eastern Canada will have any showings, but there will be one in New York in October.

Wow! Very impressive! 2 hours 43 worth, a regular half-season arc in a single sitting.I must say I quite enjoyed this film!

Wow, I love your impression/review of this great movie. I feel the same way for Yuki's character too, her overall actions really fill in her character.

Okay, I just thought of something. This is a 10-second thought, so please correct me where I go wrong (and I'm sure there are a few places).

Yuki's people recognize Haruhi as the potential for evolution, right? Haruhi is almost identical to them, except while they can only modify existing data, she can create data. She's essentially a half-step above them.

dunno
the entire choice was set up by yuki on how kyon wanted the world to be normal or something and gave him a choice whether the world would remain same or be "normal" according to kyon's standards. Thats what I tl;dr'ed this and from reading novel

I would argue the former, since the whole draw of potential is the possibility of realizing it. Also, in the first book, Yuki says, "The Integrated Data Entity is very interested in all forms of organic life on Earth. It believes that by observation, it can find the solution to its own evolutionary dead end." In other words, though it wants to, the ISDE can't evolve anymore. Not knowing what else to do, it began observation. They were interested in observing Haruhi BECAUSE they wanted the evolved power.

Oddly I think you are over-analyzing this and making it out to be more than it it.

Consider the lives involved. Then consider what they likely were before Haruhi changed them the first time. We don't know how many times Haruhi has changed the world before Kyon meets her in High School. For all we know, the Alternate of Nagato's is the original pathway before Haruhi changed everything.

Before condemning anyone, consider Haruhi herself first.

Also consider one more possibility....Haruhi wanted "sliders" as well...dimentional travelers. Who's to say anything was destroyed as it is possible all still exists...in an alternal universe. From Haruhi's world she was making with just herself and Kyon at the start, to each world of the Endless Eight on September 1st....they might all still exist in one form or another.

I don't believe it's odd to think that at all. ;)

At least in Haruhi's defense, it's unintentional. Yes, when everything started three years prior, it's very likely that a natural reality was replaced with a supernatural one (the only alternative that comes to mind is that existence itself began three years ago, as per one of the Organization's theories). But we can't blame Vesuvius for destroying Pompeii, can we? How can we turn around and blame Haruhi, then? We know for a fact that Haruhi only subscribes to her fantasies of aliens and espers and all because they're just fantasies. Remember how she felt in Remote Island Syndrome upon hearing that a murder had actually happened?

Yuki, on the other hand, knew full well what she was doing and did it anyway. Sure, you could argue it was the deterministic result of that "buggy data," but there are still ways to deal with that. If my computer has a virus, it doesn't matter if I don't know how to clean it. I can still take action like unplugging it from the network or shutting it down. Yuki didn't do anything comparable to that.

There are two things wrong with the new world being an alternate reality. The first is that there would be no reason for Yuki to bring Kyon along; his alternate version would already exist in that world. Furthermore, there would be no need to make a choice between the two worlds. Yuki could leave the original one and enter the alternate one, and everyone else could stay the same.

The second reason lies in the solution to the problem. If Kyon was simply in an alternate reality, he would just have to reinsert himself into the original one. Everyone would be all "where were you the past couple of days," but there would be no major problems. However, that wasn't the solution. Kyon had to go back and prevent that alternate reality from ever forming. If it was just a parallel universe, there would be no need, since he and everyone else would be completely unaffected. The only task would be to bring Yuki back to the real world.

I think that Koizumi's "branching tree" diagram is useful in this context. Essentially, the timeline split at the critical point, and the only way for somebody to get from one branch to the other is to back up to the critical point and take the other path--you can not go between branches without having "sidewise" time-traveling abilities, in contrast with the forward/rewind of the time travel methods described thus far. Therefore, once Haruhipowers had been sealed away within the Shoushitsu timeline, there was no escape from it except by rewinding.

*snip*

That said, the only difference in the world that significantly affected the "mundane" people was the juggling of the schools whereby Kouyouen Academy became co-ed, North High lost 3 classrooms (1-9 and presumably 2-9 and 3-9 which would be without a ground floor under them with the loss of 1-9 if they had remained), and the relocation of people resulting from that. A few dozen (hundred?) Espers got their lives changed as well. The big BIG changes from the cosmic perspective were the loss of the IDSE and the Canopy Domain--the main data superpowers--and possibly all other data life forms, and also whatever alterations to the future era that Mikuru's people are from (potentially affecting anywhere from the would-be time travelers themselves all the way up to all of mankind).

On the gripping hand, though, and this is pure speculation, Yuki did not necessarily have to alter the entire universe. Given humanity's lack of interstellar reach, she could have fashioned a solar-system-in-a-bottle, where everything inside the solar system is the "new reality" and the stars are just a projection of electromagnetic and gravitational images. In short, the new Earth would be inside of a "Closed Space" in Haurhi terms, without any need to rebuild the other 99.9999999999999+% of the cosmos other than sealing out any intruders.

He was given the right to make the choice. If you can't make a selfish choice, is it really a choice?:)

If my message is simply a repeat of what you all are discussing, please tell me so I can delete it for simple repeating.