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-   -   Studio Ghibli: discussion, speculation, and whatnot. (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=97664)

Nosauz 2010-09-21 06:57

Studio Ghibli: discussion, speculation, and whatnot.
 
Studio Ghibli's Plight

I'm glad that the people at Disney realize how important Ghibli is but in the end it is demand that spurs creators. I think that although many do want dubbed version of Ghibli works I think if it's due to low penetration DVD sales and online media would be the best way to promote upcoming movies. Anyway best way to help is to support Ghibli. I still think their dub of Ponyo was god awful and think that if want anyway to make an impact on American Audiences they need to start having their movies play on Disney Channel, ABC on Saturday Nights, just to get people interested in a great product.

synaesthetic 2010-09-21 11:32

Well, Ghibli films aren't your typical Disney formulated dreck, which is why they don't do so well in America. Especially riding on Disney's name, people expect it to be some goofy, sappy, kid-friendly romance with lots of spontaneous breaking into song.

But it's just not that. I think the cultural differences, the Animation Age Ghetto and Ghibli being linked to Disney is what kills them in America.

Look at the animated Disney films that didn't follow the usual pattern. Look at the Don Bluth films that didn't rip off Disney's tried-and-true formula. They didn't do well. Pixar's raking in the dough for Disney in part due to the novelty of CGI animated films, but I think even that's wearing off.

The fact of the matter is America thinks animation is for kids and Studio Ghibli films are a bit too highbrow for your average toddler.

Really, I'd love to see Miyazaki films get regular full-on theatrical releases in America. I'd love to see the same thing happen with Mamoru Hosoda films such as Summer Wars. Satoshi Kon's work could have likewise been successful in a full-force theatrical release--except for this one little fact: the vast majority of America assumes that 2D cel animation = FOR KIDS ONLY.

Do you think Avatar would have done as well as it did if it wasn't CGI, but traditional 2D cel animation?

james0246 2010-09-21 11:43

If Studio Ghibli started making a quality product again, I would be more inclined to care. But, since they haven't made a quality product (beyond visual appeal) in about a decade, I really do not care if they can succeed in America or not...

That being said, why isn't this in the General Anime sub-forum? What about the topic implies a need for general chat?

Xellos-_^ 2010-09-21 11:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nosauz (Post 3257532)
Studio Ghibli's Plight

I'm glad that the people at Disney realize how important Ghibli is but in the end it is demand that spurs creators. I think that although many do want dubbed version of Ghibli works I think if it's due to low penetration DVD sales and online media would be the best way to promote upcoming movies. Anyway best way to help is to support Ghibli. I still think their dub of Ponyo was god awful and think that if want anyway to make an impact on American Audiences they need to start having their movies play on Disney Channel, ABC on Saturday Nights, just to get people interested in a great product.

studio ghibli can go f**k itself.

i lost all respect for ghibli once I learn they look down on the rest of the anime industry and refuse to hire anime VA for the ghibli roles.

Vexx 2010-09-21 11:48

In the vein of just how screwed up the US is concerning "cartoons", I was watching a cop show the other night. Our heroes were standing outside an apartment and could hear the tv blaring inside. They were there to interview a single male. One cop hears that it is Mighty Mouse playing on the tv and says, "Grownup watching cartoons??" and they decide to burst in through the door with guns drawn.

Even my wife (who puts up with far more nonsense on tv than I will) said, "WTF????".

I'm mixed on Ghibli ... he's definitely filed in my "pompous jerk with few clues" basket, but I'll always love his prime time works (Totoro, Spirited, Kiki, etc). My only thanks to Disney is for giving me a relatively cheap way to acquire them with subtitles. Disney's voicework dubs run circles around other studios.

synaesthetic 2010-09-21 11:52

*facepalm*

What.

I don't even.

solomon 2010-09-21 12:04

I am confused.

Is Ghibli in so much finiancial doodoo that they have to rely on the American side to pull up the money? The article didn't say that.

Anyways, I said it before and I will say it again.

Until a major AMERICAN ANIMATED FILM thats AIMED AT ADULTS does as well as the rest of Hollywood, nothing will change.

We had that sea change in the 1990s but animation still is seen as kids stuff. If Ghibli's fate is tied to American box office recipts (which I have trouble believing) then Ghibli will die. Plain and Simple.

Xellos-_^ 2010-09-21 12:16

did i mention how Ghibli butcher Earthsea, it was a ok moive but it was no Earthsea.

Nosauz 2010-09-21 13:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ (Post 3257936)
did i mention how Ghibli butcher Earthsea, it was a ok moive but it was no Earthsea.

It's Ghibli's son not Miyazaki himself who directed EarthSea. But yea Earthsea was disappointing from a Ghibli standpoint especially on quality.

If you look at the way Hollywood is boring from anime/manga sources it's clear that they see potential in the stories to be told, they just need to harness the animation aspect to create the worlds that we want to envelop ourselves into. Much like video games as a genre, animation is getting there, and as long as Pixar keeps pushing animation to the frontiers animation will eventually get accepted as a form of expression and a real source for entertainment beyond children fare.

synaesthetic 2010-09-21 13:57

That's where you're wrong.

America doesn't mind CGI; I mean, look at Avatar. CGI is fine. It's "manly" enough.

But ordinary cel-animated works? Pfft, that pansy shit's for kids and gays!

Sigh.

Xellos-_^ 2010-09-21 14:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nosauz (Post 3258009)
It's Ghibli's son not Miyazaki himself who directed EarthSea. But yea Earthsea was disappointing from a Ghibli standpoint especially on quality.

If you look at the way Hollywood is boring from anime/manga sources it's clear that they see potential in the stories to be told, they just need to harness the animation aspect to create the worlds that we want to envelop ourselves into. Much like video games as a genre, animation is getting there, and as long as Pixar keeps pushing animation to the frontiers animation will eventually get accepted as a form of expression and a real source for entertainment beyond children fare.

they told Ursula le guin that Miyazaki himself will direct Earthsea. Which was why she gave the ok for it, then they turn around and handed it to Miyazaki's son.

to me that stinks.

Metropolisforever 2010-09-21 14:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nosauz (Post 3257532)
Studio Ghibli's Plight

I'm glad that the people at Disney realize how important Ghibli is but in the end it is demand that spurs creators. I think that although many do want dubbed version of Ghibli works I think if it's due to low penetration DVD sales and online media would be the best way to promote upcoming movies. Anyway best way to help is to support Ghibli. I still think their dub of Ponyo was god awful and think that if want anyway to make an impact on American Audiences they need to start having their movies play on Disney Channel, ABC on Saturday Nights, just to get people interested in a great product.

Coming up next, it's Grave of the Fireflies! Followed by an all-new Hannah Montana!

Sheba 2010-09-21 14:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ (Post 3258046)
they told Ursula le guin that Miyazaki himself will direct Earthsea. Which was why she gave the ok for it, then they turn around and handed it to Miyazaki's son.

to me that stinks.

You know Earthsea was doomed to fail when even Miyazaki senior was not happy over his son handling it. Yeah, I should have seen it coming for earthsea.

But if you americans think that anime is seen as kiddy stuff in USA, it is not better in Europe either.

AFAIK, in France, only Miyazaki, Oshii and Kon's works are respectable enough to not be lumped with Naruto and Sailor Moon by critics, you know the snobs who would watch nothing but "High class" cinema.

Nosauz 2010-09-21 15:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by synaesthetic (Post 3258043)
That's where you're wrong.

America doesn't mind CGI; I mean, look at Avatar. CGI is fine. It's "manly" enough.

But ordinary cel-animated works? Pfft, that pansy shit's for kids and gays!

Sigh.

Crackdown was well received, the New PoP was really well liked by American Standards, Borderlands is at the top of critically acclaimed games. The art style isn't all that "wimpy" as you portray it to be, and for the most part it comes down to whether or not Americans treat animation fairly as an Artistic medium, for most they don't which is disappointing.

The thing about Avatar... it was just Fern Gully/Dances with Wolves/Pocahontas in 3D in space, the story wasn't all that alluring and the 3D wasn't all that impressive, it just depends on what your audience is trying to get out of the movie. I still contend that Pixar is dramatically helping bridging the gap and Disney to some extent use to do this with their hand drawn animations such as Aladdin and the early 90s era movies. I do think something like say Megamind, is clearly targetted at adults as the main demographic, especially when you cast Jonah Hill, Tina Fey, Brad Pitt who really don't do kids stuff at all. Oh well it's hard to say especially since I'm part of the group of kids who grew up with Sega Genesis, and plenty of cartoons.

Also if Ghibli would return to making movies like Spirited Away, Princess Monoke, Totoro, I think there might be more hope.

ganbaru 2010-09-21 16:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nosauz (Post 3258131)
Also if Ghibli would return to making movies like Spirited Away, Princess Monoke, Totoro, I think there might be more hope.

I belive than it could help, as good visualy it was Ponyo, I didn't find it as interesting as thoses previous works.

Spectacular_Insanity 2010-09-21 17:12

I don't care. if Studio Ghibli is in trouble, it's their own damn fault. Why should U.S. anime fans who already pay overpriced amounts for licensed material do anything to help out a company that hasn't done anything worthwhile recently?

Tsuyoshi 2010-09-21 17:27

At this point in time, I don't really care how Ghibli does. They made great movies in the past, but they lost their flair a long time ago. And if they have to rely on the US for success, then they're looking at the wrong place. As people have already mentioned here, animated works (apart from CGI) is perceived to be just for kids. People don't realize that it could easily be aimed at adults as well, which is the reason it won't do so well. The anime and manga culture in Japan is completely different from other parts of the world in general even. Ghibli's fate is sealed. This is going to be its last movie.

Dilla 2010-09-21 17:40

If it's based of box-office, then they have no shot. Ghibli movies dubbed by Disney have done relatively well when released on home video/DVD, but has gotten no more than a limited release in theaters.

Edit: Well, Spirited Away, Howl's Moving Castle, and Kiki's Delivery Service did at least

khryoleoz 2010-09-21 17:59

I'd be much more inclined at giving my support where my self-interest is better served. I've not enjoyed a single one of the movies to have come out of this studio. Make something that I like, then sure I'll pay at the box office and the local video store to see it.

Come on. It's a simple game of free market. I've seen studios die out in which I was heavily invested like Pioneer Animation and ADV Films, two to which I ascribed much greater value, and are now long defunct because of how the market turned and business decisions made that weren't conducive to succeeding in the changed market environment. So pardon me if I'm not at all sympathetic to a company whose products I have yet to enjoy.

james0246 2010-09-21 18:03

Reading the linked article, I am very confused. Why is Studio Ghibli going out of business? Ponyo, to use the most recent film, made well over 200 million dollars worldwide, and it only cost 30-60 million to make and market. Tales from Earthsea was a failure (costing around 60 million and only making about 68 million dollars), but with the success of Ponyo, that failure was more than made up for. So where are they losing money from?


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