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yajra03 2010-10-18 03:18

DoTA 2
 
Valve Dota Officially Revealed

In 2009, Icefrog announced that Valve would be entering the DotA Based Game genre with Icefrog at the helm.
Mid 2010 - Valve applies for the DotA, DotA 2 and DotA 3 trademark.
October 2010 - the Valve secret DotA project is unveiled by GameInformer.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_X56mregoBL...s400/dota2.jpg
The new DotA 2 Logo from Valve

What's a Dota?

Dota 2 takes its name from the Warcraft III mod Defense of the Ancients, a drastic change to that stock real-time strategy title, which pits two teams of five players against each other in highly competitive, 40-minute or longer matches. Unlike most RTSes, DotA has each player controlling a single hero who levels up and stockpiles gold to purchase powerful equipment and consumables. As computer-controlled armies continually spawn and rush the enemy's base, players are responsible for using their powerful heroes to turn the tide of the battle in their favor.

DotA quickly gained massive popularity on Blizzard's Battle.net service, with the growing community utilizing user-created channels and the rudimentary custom game browser to connect players. As mods tend to do, it branched into several variations as time passed. Eventually, one rose to the top: DotA-Allstars, originally created by Steve "Guinsoo" Feak (now employed with Riot Games designing League of Legends). Allstars is currently maintained and updated by IceFrog (who declined to give his real name), who was hired by Valve in 2009 and is now working on Dota 2.



DotA enjoys such unprecedented popularity for a number of interconnected reasons. The game has a skill curve as long and as wide as Counter-Strike or StarCraft; expert players dominate matches with lesser-skilled individuals solely through manual dexterity and hard-won knowledge. Extensive upgrade paths allow players to combine items into more powerful versions, gaining thousands of hit points or powerful life-stealing attacks. Team play is hugely rewarded; though the map is large enough for all ten players to spread out and fight creeps on their own without anyone engaging anyone else directly, late-game play is almost invariably centered around giant 3v3 or even 5v5 team fights.

The mod has benefited from excellent, long-running support in the form of constant updates that add new content or address balance issues. Said balance is good enough that no dominant team composition or strategy has ever taken hold for long. The heroes are varied enough that a match featuring different team rosters can take on an entirely different character from the last.

The enormous following generated by DotA's deep gameplay is unprecedented. Today, years after its release, a third-party site hosting an update can get hammered by more than six million downloads in a day. The mod spawned a new subgenre, commonly referred to as "action-RTS," that contains two successful commercial games in League of Legends and Heroes of Newerth (and the unfortunate flop Demigod) as well as DotA-Allstars itself. Valve Corporation, the company beloved for its Half-Life, Counter-Strike, Team Fortress, and Left 4 Dead series as well as its outstanding Steam digital distribution and matchmaking platform, is making its entry into this still-growing genre next year with Dota 2.



What Does Valve Bring?

Valve's approach to Dota 2 is unusual in that the gameplay itself is remaining almost entirely untouched. "Our first reaction is to assume that [design elements are] there for a reason," project lead Erik Johnson explains. "IceFrog is one of the smartest designers we've ever met. He's made so many good decisions over the years in building the product. He virtually never makes a decision that doesn't have some reasoning behind it and a way to pick apart the logic behind it." This approach means that Dota 2 basically is DotA-Allstars with new technology.

DotA-Allstars' roster of 100+ heroes is being brought over in its entirety. The single map games take place on is functionally identical to the one that you can download for free today in the Warcraft III mod. Items, skills, and upgrade paths are unchanged. Some hero skills work slightly better due to being freed from the now-ancient Warcraft III engine, but Dota 2 will be instantly familiar to any DotA player.

A few things will make significant differences to players making the transition. Dota 2 uses Valve's Source engine, so the game is much prettier. Source itself is getting a few upgrades, including improved global lighting and true cloth simulation. Dota 2's integrated voice chat is a huge step up from having to set up your own Ventrilo server, and the speed of voice communication is very nearly a requirement for a game as team-focused as DotA.

AI bots will take over for disconnected players, and will be available to play against in unranked training matches as well. However, don't get your hopes up for a full-fledged single-player game, though. Johnson says, "Our goal with the AI is just that their experience isn't destroyed just because one person couldn't finish the game."

The visual style is remarkable for retaining the somewhat cartoony feel that the Warcraft III version of DotA-Allstars is built around, while going in a few different directions. "I think there are functional aspects to the art that are pretty significant to the players," Johnson muses. The environment, particularly in the forests that fill in the map between the three lanes that the NPC armies follow, uses a desaturated color scheme to give the colorful heroes and abilities some visual pop. The sizable art team is putting a lot of work into making the shapes and animations of each hero distinct to the point that players will be able to instantly identify any hero they see and quickly gauge the threat level of any situation.

The game will also feature a ton of custom voice work. You'll get amusing lines from heroes as they deny the enemy team last hits on creeps, and champions who have backstory connections will trade quips when nearby.

The bulk of innovation in Dota 2, however, is ancillary to the gameplay itself. Valve is upgrading Steamworks (the company's backend technologies for matchmaking and other gameplay and community-related things) to allow them to create in-game rewards for participating in the Dota 2 community. The idea is to have everything a player does in or out of game tie back into their online identity. Like the improvements to Source, the Steamworks upgrades will be available to third-party developers who choose to use Valve's tools when Dota 2 launches in 2011.

At a basic level, posting useful feedback or participating in constructive discussions on the forums will contribute to your standing in the community in a visible way. Valve doesn't have the specifics on how this will work nailed down yet. Will you get points that contribute to a visible ranking, like a Gamerscore? Will your posts need to be recommended by other community members to count for anything? What counts as a constructive discussion? These questions are all being actively explored at the moment. Valve assures us that the designers have a slew of awesome ideas for how to implement rewards in a way that’s visible to the rest of the community, but there are no details to announce yet. "When we talk about this identity that exists inside and outside the game, we don't think we're anywhere near it with what exists on Steam right now," Johnson admits.

If this was just about getting points for posting comments, though, we wouldn't waste your time by telling you about it. Dota 2 goes much farther than that. Everything from unlocking new skins for your favorite hero to getting a unique title for writing a strategy guide is on the table. Valve has ambitious plans (for which, again, there are no specifics to share) to host everything themselves and provide the best framework for the community to interact with each other. The idea is to reduce the social friction inherent in having to dig around a bunch of different fansites and wikis to find what you're looking for.

Ultimately, two things will make Dota 2 stand out: the coaching system and interactive guides. Read on to find out more.



Riding the Skill Curve

Getting owned sucks. It doesn't matter if you're the victim of a headshot in Counter-Strike, corner trapped in Street Fighter, or swarmed under by Zerglings in StarCraft. Holding the short end of the skill stick in competitive games like these is rough. This problem is compounded in DotA and its clones by two factors. First, matches last around 40 minutes – that's a long time to spend getting your face kicked in. Second, dying not only takes you out of the game while your respawn timer counts down but also directly benefits the other team by giving a big cash bounty to your killer.

At intermediate and higher levels of play, having a poor player on your team who dies frequently is worse than fighting with a man down, as the opposite team gets gobs of gold for picking off the newbie. This has fostered a legendarily newbie-hostile attitude within large swaths of the DotA community. As fun and rewarding as the game is when you're in a match of appropriate skill level – and it can be one of the very best experiences in gaming, without exaggeration – finding those matches has always been a nightmare. It doesn't help that the game is so intense that Valve had to institute a "no talking about the match for an hour afterwards" rule for its internal playtests. The recent commercial titles that more or less cloned DotA have ameliorated this to some extent, but it is still often a huge problem.

Valve believes that the solution to the huge barrier to entry is threefold. The first, obvious solution is to have excellent skill-based matchmaking for both individuals and teams. Valve believes that the work going into Steamworks for Dota 2's release meets that requirement. Second, interactive guides will allow players to do more than just read a guide for their favorite hero that has been deemed helpful by the community at large. Valve plans to allow guide-makers to tie their work back into the game by doing things like highlighting suggested item purchases or displaying useful information during a match.

Finally, a coaching system is being deeply integrated into the game. By logging in as a coach, veteran players can do their part to help out newer folks. Valve hasn't entirely decided on the specifics of how newbies and coaches will be matched up, but once they're together a few things happen. The coach sees the pupil's screen, and gets private voice and chat channels to communicate with them. The coach probably won't be able to take control of anything directly (once again, the details are currently under discussion), but information is power in Dota 2 and having a mentor whispering in your ear can make all the difference in the world.



Of course, the pupil will be able to rate the coach's helpfulness. Being a well-regarded coach will have explicit in-game rewards, just like writing useful guides, posting constructive feedback, or engaging in interesting strategy discussions. If the overwhelming response to Battle.net achievements is any indication, vanity rewards like these will be extremely effective in channeling the community's energies toward positive contributions.

Valve founder and boss Gabe Newell thinks that ongoing service and value creation over a game's lifespan is the new reality of game development. "IceFrog was one of the smartest people we've ever met about doing that, and he was doing it with both hands tied behind his back, so to speak," Newell says. The company plans on approaching Dota 2 with the same dedication that won it the fanatical devotion of the Team Fortress 2 community, pushing out dozens of updates that do everything from adding new hats to fixing balance issues to introducing entire new match types for free.

"I think the interesting thing is us adding a second layer where the community is a service to each other. That's the real shift that we're trying to build here. Valve is going to keep building software around Dota and around the community and around Steamworks for Dota, but we're also going to build this system where the community can bring service to each other and be recognized for it," Johnson proclaims. With a solid backbone of community-enabling systems and Valve's legendary support and technology behind it, Dota 2 has a chance to turn one of the most popular mods of all time into a full game on PC and Mac that compares favorably to any eight-figure-budget console blockbuster.

One thing going for the Valve DotA Based Game is it's lead developer. Since Icefrog is credited for bringing DotA to it's peak, a lot of DotA players will be following Icefrog and the Valve DotA project. Expectations are quite high since both Icefrog and Valve have generally good reputations when it comes to their craft.

Editor notes: One notable game in the DotA based game genre is Heroes of Newerth, a 30 dollar game from a game company with a cult following. HoN is currently marked by long-time DotA veterans as the only worthy successor to DotA so far. All these can change if Valve meets the high expectations from both the DotA and Steam communities.

Morphling
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_X56mregoBL..._morphling.jpg

Lina
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_X56mregoBL...dota2_lina.jpg

Bloodseeker
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_X56mregoBL...loodseeker.jpg

Drow Ranger
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_X56mregoBL...drowranger.jpg


:):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):)

great news for all dota fanatics! all hail icefrog!!!

killer3000ad 2010-10-27 05:38

Blizzard and Valve clash over DoTA trademark

Rhythm 2010-10-27 05:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeadBonesDooM (Post 3718327)
Ahh shut up you ignorant brats, you found dota when it went big, like 6 years ago?
I have played dota as long as I can remember :D
DotA is most badass game ever, DotA 2 will be more badass then anything made yet.
Yes DotA 2 will be another copy of dota but it has better graphics, improved game systems, new hero models(similar to original ones), new item models and probaly more and more features.
LoL is just an horrible game.
Now if you come to flame me that "omg you haven't played lol", then please gtfo I have played every game based on DotA.
And there are more than enough of them.
And so far, DOTA has been best. Then comes HoN, then Avalon heros and then LoL.

/thread

Finally the game is out. No more shitty LoL or HoN. <3

Duo Maxwell 2010-10-27 07:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhythm (Post 3317252)
No more shitty LoL or HoN either.

Why do people love to bash other games senselessly like this? HoN, maybe, but I don't think you can compare LoL to DotA, since the feeling between the two are almost completely different.

Rhythm 2010-10-27 09:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duo Maxwell (Post 3317310)
Why do people love to bash other games senselessly like this? HoN, maybe, but I don't think you can compare LoL to DotA, since the feeling between the two are almost completely different.

Excuse me if I hurt your feelings LoL fanboy. :( Why do people get so sensitive like this?

Just because it has a different "feel" (dafuq?), it means you can't compare them? Sure they introduced some new things. In the end they're both still based off the AoS style, both within the MOBA genre, and so is HoN...even though HoN was apparently more of a copy with improved graphics, LoL still retained the principle of 3 lanes, waves, heroes, towers, etc. So why not compare them? And if I feel it's inferior why not bash it? <3

ChainLegacy 2010-10-28 11:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by killer3000ad (Post 3317247)

How I see this is business... If Blizzard wasn't willing to work with Icefrog on a standalone game then they've lost all claim to the name. True it is kind of stupid to stop them from using the DOTA name but one has to wonder why Blizzard wasn't more supportive of the greatest mod ever created for one of their games. I have to feel like it is their loss.

Izayoi 2010-11-04 21:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhythm (Post 3317481)
>>Implying DotA didn't copy off of AoS

Sir, DotA is not original. 3 lanes, waves, heroes, towers are not introduced in DotA. I don't know what your problem is with the LoL's graphic but I guess that is your opinion. To me HoN's graphic is pretty ugly.

First of all, the quality of these concept arts does not show the quality of graphic in game(derp). DotA2 will most likely replace HoN(?) but not LoL. I don't see how DotA2 has anything new to offer other than realistic graphics, which is still in doubt. Following this MOBA genre since AoS and played in the Cal, all I can tell you is that DotA's current balancing system is epic fail. Characters conception like Drow, Bloodseeker is hardly appealing(AOE silent and frost arrows, seriously?). Appealing characters such as Earthshaker/Engima/Silencer is imbalanced with AOE ultimate that could kill the whole team. Game mechanics like killing your allies to allow your creep to stay in one spot without moving while not letting opponent have any exp are epic fail. Items such as Dagger still have like a 3-4 second cool down. The balancing system is actually worse than when games were titled "No SA" in fear of the WitchDoctor Ward. What makes a game fun is its game mechanics and not that it has cool graphics. I am sick of getting that AOE combo in IH or the concept of late game and early game hero.

- I am biased because LoL has Touhou references(Wriggle's Lantern, Youmuu's Ghostblade) and Final Sparks(Lux). I used to hated LoL because the matchmaking system, runes, and mastery; It was until I played Annie, loli bursting people out-- something Lina/Pyromancer could not accomplish, that I began to love LoL. Note that LoL's player population is way larger than HoN due to being free.

Rhythm 2010-11-05 01:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Izayoi (Post 3332066)
Sir, DotA is not original. 3 lanes, waves, heroes, towers are not introduced in DotA.

I agree, my mistake. I worded that statement wrong. Let me restate; since all three of the games are AoS-based, IMO there's no reason that they can't be compared.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Izayoi (Post 3332066)
I don't know what your problem is with the LoL's graphic but I guess that is your opinion. To me HoN's graphic is pretty ugly.

Firstly, I haven't said I had a problem with LoL's graphics(derp). Secondly, what I said about HoN was me regurgitating what I've heard and read on boards, about it being a DotA copy with improved graphics. It isn't my actual opinion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Izayoi (Post 3332066)
First of all, the quality of these concept arts does not show the quality of graphic in game(derp).

Of course, I'm completely aware of this lol. I was simply assuming that the DotA2 in-game hero models of these heroes will be based on these concepts and will look like them, not necessarily in terms of quality, but the model itself(derp).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Izayoi (Post 3332066)
DotA2 will most likely replace HoN(?) but not LoL.

Who cares?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Izayoi (Post 3332066)
I don't see how DotA2 has anything new to offer other than realistic graphics, which is still in doubt. Following this MOBA genre since AoS and played in the Cal, all I can tell you is that DotA's current balancing system is epic fail. Characters conception like Drow, Bloodseeker is hardly appealing(AOE silent and frost arrows, seriously?). Appealing characters such as Earthshaker/Engima/Silencer is imbalanced with AOE ultimate that could kill the whole team. Game mechanics like killing your allies to allow your creep to stay in one spot without moving while not letting opponent have any exp are epic fail. Items such as Dagger still have like a 3-4 second cool down. The balancing system is actually worse than when games were titled "No SA" in fear of the WitchDoctor Ward. What makes a game fun is its game mechanics and not that it has cool graphics. I am sick of getting that AOE combo in IH or the concept of late game and early game hero.

Spoiler for Response.:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Izayoi (Post 3332066)
I am sick of getting that AOE combo in IH or the concept of late game and early game hero.

That's just your opinion. You sure like to whine a lot don't you?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Izayoi (Post 3332066)
Items such as Dagger still have like a 3-4 second cool down.

The cooldown is 14 seconds actually (exaggerating a bit there buddy?). Also, the dagger can't be used if damaged by an enemy controlled player unit or Roshan in the last 3 seconds. Which means you can't just escape if you get a surprise gank or something like that. I think that's what you got confused about, and IMO seems pretty balanced to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Izayoi (Post 3332066)
Game mechanics like killing your allies to allow your creep to stay in one spot without moving while not letting opponent have any exp are epic fail.

I'm not sure what you mean by this, are you referring to 'denying creeps'? If you are, then I can't help but to disagree for a number of reasons, but once again, it's a matter of opinion. To be completely honest, it sounds like you were just bad at DotA so you decided to opt for a game with easier mechanics. I actually wouldn't be surprised if you are Bronze/Silver in LoL.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Izayoi (Post 3332066)
Characters conception like Drow, Bloodseeker is hardly appealing(AOE silent and frost arrows, seriously?).

That's just your opinion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Izayoi (Post 3332066)
What makes a game fun is its game mechanics and not that it has cool graphics..

Sure you could say that (which is your opinion), but whether a game has "fun game mechanics" is entirely subjective. It's a matter of opinion(derp). I honestly can't handle the sheer retardation of what you've typed in your post, notice how a lot of what you've said is based on opinion? You can't prove to me LoL is better, and I can't prove to you DotA 2 is better, because the decision will always be based on opinion.

And my opinion is that LoL and HoN are shitty, deal with it kiddo. :P

LoweGear 2011-06-06 14:31

Sneak Peak at DoTA 2 Changelogs

... there was a private Beta for DoTA2 since November 2010? :eek:

Demongod86 2011-06-07 21:09

Actually, Valve can get sued pretty nicely by the anime studio that made Slayers.

LINA INVERSE, anyone?

Also, if they continue to use the same model for Phantom Lancer, Square Enix can sue for ripping off of Kimahri's model.

Also: WotC can sue for the unauthorized use of Morphling (M:tG Urza's Saga) for profit.

So can Blizzard for generally ripping off of their IP. After all, I believe whenever you made a custom map, that map became IP of Blizzard Entertainment.

Frankly, I hope Valve gets taken to the cleaners for this.

Nosauz 2011-06-17 11:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demongod86 (Post 3643466)
Actually, Valve can get sued pretty nicely by the anime studio that made Slayers.

LINA INVERSE, anyone?

Also, if they continue to use the same model for Phantom Lancer, Square Enix can sue for ripping off of Kimahri's model.

Also: WotC can sue for the unauthorized use of Morphling (M:tG Urza's Saga) for profit.

So can Blizzard for generally ripping off of their IP. After all, I believe whenever you made a custom map, that map became IP of Blizzard Entertainment.

Frankly, I hope Valve gets taken to the cleaners for this.

Actually you can't really sue, because the character needs to be exactly like said thing, how would MTG have any rights to the name morphling, one is a card depicting a mimic, while the other is a water elemental... How did valve rip off blizzard;s IP? it was a mod to a blizzard game, the models where the same, but most likely the in game models for this game with a different engine won't be restrained to slolely models in WC3/FT, anyway based on current IP laws these companies you mentioned don't really have much claim to any of the IP claims you mention

Reckoner 2011-07-18 19:42

We should be receiving interesting news soon.

http://www.dota-two.com/dota2-presentation-countdown

Quote:

The countdown to the presentation of DOTA 2 has started!

So, what are the latest news? Well, we have had some really tiny bits and pieces of information these past days. For once, we have the "confirmation" that Valve will be showing DOTA 2 at GamesCom, as we can see in the official site of the fair Valve is presenting a strategy game. At the same time, we hear a lot about the new Steam delivery system. Moreover, it is now clear that all the rumours some people were spreading about Valve announcing DOTA 2 at the Comic Con in san Diego this year where totally off. As you can see for yourself in the exhibitors list, Valve is not included, another thing that, again, points to the fact that Valve will be announcing DOTA 2 at GamesCom. Last, but certainly not least, there have been a lot of rumours going on about a DOTA 2 actual Tournament taking place at the GC fair. In particular the sources state that: 8 European Team + 6 Asian Teams get Beta Keys for DotA2 + Travel expenses to Germany and will battle from 17th-21st of August in Cologne in a promotion Tournament for a 5-digit dollar prize pool. Truth or rumour, we will learn soon!

You can't wait for the game to be presented and feel like you are dying for some piece of action? Stay tuned at dota-two.com and our forums for the news and the discussions on one of the most anticipated strategy games of 2011.

[UPDATED]

The latest news want Valve to have sent invites to quite a few pro DotA players to invite them to the GamesCom Tournament, the "Event" as they explicitly call it. Our colleagues at sgamer.com seem to have gotten their hands on one of those invites and they are sharing it with us:


They have a countdown until gamecom on their website too.

And according to earlier Valve announcements they will be releasing Dota 2 probably mid year next year :).

RRW 2011-08-01 16:28

Dota 2 Championships: First Public Showing at Gamescom


the prize is $1 million.

http://blog.dota2.com/2011/08/announ...international/

-Sho- 2011-08-01 17:19

Yeah , saw it , they gave it all to draw the attention. Not surprising , Valve can give such an amount of moneys.
Anyway , see first if Dota 2 will be as good as it seems.

Reckoner 2011-08-03 20:09

Not sure why more people won't talk about this, this is HUGE.

Waven 2011-08-03 21:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reckoner (Post 3715544)
Not sure why more people won't talk about this, this is HUGE.

Been reading on esports boards about it but it just turns out into a "RIP lol/hon!" flamefest everywhere.

Valve wants to create hype and publicity with this and they sure as hell succeed in doing that. However, at the end of the day the quality of the game itself and the quantity of its features is what makes a great product and that creates a large community and longevity.

As for me, I had been playing dota even before Icefrog took over from Guinsoo - that's before 2005, and even more after that when it became more competitive. However, since some friends introduced me to LoL I never played a single dota game again and I pretty much never looked back.
Now when dota2 is released I'm giving it a serious try for it to prove to be the "better" game for me but seeing how I'm still hooked up with LoL after all this time, dota2 has to be extremely good for me to switch again for good.

Flying Dagger 2011-08-03 21:35

I believe it is better to host 5 different 200k tournaments than to dump $1mil into an exclusive tournament based on a game that is still in beta.

I believe $1mil creates a lot of hype, but 5x$200k can achieve similar results while providing a skeleton for future growth of the game.

-Sho- 2011-08-04 03:01

Huge? we have nothing about the content , the gameplay yet so i won't say this is huge.

Reckoner 2011-08-04 14:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Sho- (Post 3715915)
Huge? we have nothing about the content , the gameplay yet so i won't say this is huge.

It's pretty. Big for than a few reasons. First of all one million dollars in prize money? Holy crap. This is by far the hugest prize money pot in the history of e gaming! For comparison sc2's biggest pot ever I believe was 100k!

Valve has basically shown an incrediblemdisplay of both power and confidence here. Not only does this show the overwhelming financial support Dota 2 will have over lesser copies like hon but it practically announces Dota 2 as the next possibly enormous e game in the world. While there Always has been a nicely sized competitive scene out there for dotA it has very little sponsors and has been hugely limited by the war3 engine. This is a chance for Dota to really burst out into the internationL scene like sc2 managed to.

Xion Valkyrie 2011-08-04 23:42

They should do something like what HoN is doing with their public/verified users.

The rotating heroes for unverified users is probably the best idea ever for DOTA. One of the biggest problems was that newbies are completely overwhelmed by an immediate pool of 100 heroes. Having a much smaller selection on rotation would allow newbies to slowly learn various heroes without being overwhelmed by them.


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