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-   -   Ore no Imouto - Character Discussion - Ayase (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=98771)

Klashikari 2010-11-01 08:14

Ore no Imouto - Character Discussion - Ayase
 
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Mentar 2010-11-01 09:18

Thanks Klashikari ;)

To kick off the discussion: I'm a closet Ayase shipper, so take my words with a grain of salt. To kick off the discussion, I'd like to list what in my opinion she is NOT (from the other thread):

1) Ayase is not a Yandere!

This is popular and AFAIK even on a wiki, but IMHO fairly off the mark. Being a Yandere requires two things: A fanatical devotion to someone who you're convinced you're destined to be with (that's already questionable - fanatical devotion yes, but destined to be with? not sure), and a violent-dangerous reaction towards the object of desire when it becomes evident that this devotion isn't going to be reciprocated. Which is a flat-out no. All that Ayase did was severing her ties and walking away in pain. No violence, no threats.

In the end, she was threatening Kyousuke with death, should he make moves on Kirino. That, however, was not directed against the object of devotion, but against people who might threaten it. Call her obsessed and overprotective, fine. But I don't think Yandere fits.

2) Ayase is not batshit crazy!

No sir, she is not. Everything she did is perfectly reasonable and making sense, as long as you keep in mind that a) she's infatuated with her idolized view of Kirino and b) conditioned to reject otakudom. If you start from there, she is quite reasonable. Heck, she's even talking to the pervert oniichan, and she's accepting evidence as genuine which is contradicting her beliefs. That's more rational than 90% of all people I have political discussions with

3) Ayase is no controlling stalker!

Nope. Neither did she stalk, nor is she controlling. If she were the latter, she'd try hard to influence Kirino to drop her hobby. To monitor when Kirino was doing what, trying to "forbid" her from doing unacceptable stuff. Instead, she cut ties and walked away.

In the end, I consider it sad and bitter irony that the only girl who immediately treated Kyousuke kindly and with respect, without suspicion but rather convinced about the general goodness of man, is now turned into a bitter enemy over Kyousuke's protective lie. This is the macabre part: By repeatedly shielding Kirino against the injustice of society, he turns into the sandbag target even for those people who are most compatible with him by disposition (like Ayase). I'm looking forward to how the novel plans to gradually remedy this and resolve this tragedy. Kyousuke deserves much better than he gets.

risingstar3110 2010-11-01 09:48

I'm weak against character with "unrequited love", so somehow Ayase climbed to 2nd place in my favourite character ranking for Oreimo, behind Kuroneko....

Partly also because Kirino and Kyousuke were quite a let down in ep 5

technomo12 2010-11-01 11:15

all i can say Ayase better grow as a character because being a closed minded person will give you the bat to the face answer on the long run

Saturn Beaver 2010-11-01 13:59

I have to admit, at first my impression of her is not very favorable at all, but after further scrutiny I have to agree with Mentar that Ayase is neither of those things. It's just the exaggerated reactions, especially the part in the rain that gives that impression, I think. Still, I think she is obsessive and overprotective of Kirino, which may suggest an underlying reason. I already gave this in the episode thread, but I see no harm in posting it here again:

Spoiler for Ayase:


To be honest, what irks me more about her isn't her reaction towards Kirino's hobbies or her obsessiveness over the perfect image of Kirino she had in her head as her best friends. It's the bit of selfishness when, even after hearing Kyousuke's and Kirino's defense, she still can't bring herself to tolerate the behavior. This is understandable; after all she's raised all her life with such values and it'll take more than two rousing speeches to change her mindset, but I can't help but think it's rather unfair for her to expect Kirino to sacrifice her hobby and become the perfect image of her best friend yet when the tables are turned, she can't bring herself to make the same sacrifice. Although, now that I think about it further, I think what irks me most isn't just that but instead Kirino's stares for Kyousuke (and not her or Ayase, the people actually involved in the friendship) to somehow come up with a solution for this.

Oh, and another thing: when Ayase text Kyousuke and call him a lying brother, does that mean she knows for sure that Kyousuke is obviously making all of that up?
Spoiler for Lying:
I personally really hope that it's true.

keroro gunsou 2010-11-01 14:16

At least, she has the best outlooking in this show.
In ep4, I doubt Kirino is main heroine... I feel Ayase is so sweet.
But watching ep5, I dont like the character of Ayase...
Did she think many things simply & carelessly? OK guys, she is juniorhigh student!!!
The last her mail to Kyousuke was very matured, enough for her age!!
But I want her to be nice girl....(I am selfish, I cannot blame Kirino & Ayase...)

Falkor 2010-11-01 17:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saturn Beaver (Post 3326177)
See, I think her main issue is that she has a bit of a case of hero-worship. That is, she identify herself not for who she is, but her hero (Kirino) and her relationship with her. After all, when your best friend is such a perfect being that outshine you in every way, it’s normal to feel jealous. It can lead to motivation in a healthy rivalry, but often the green-eyed-monster swallows you which leads to you undermining and sabotaging her. But here, I think Ayase takes a different reaction. She already gave up trying to surpass her, and is more than satisfied to be the best friend of someone she adores so much. Sure, she’ll just be the eternal sidekick, but for her, even Kirino-lite is better than most regular people anyway.

And because of the unhealthy dependent relationship she has, she feels betrayed when her perfect image of Kirino (as seen at the confrontation in the playground) is tarnished. She freaks out, because if Kirino does something she finds disgusting, that means as she identifies herself as Kirino, she is also the same way, and even worse. That’s also explains her possessiveness of her and wanting to make sure that they’re best friends; after all, Kirino is the reason of her being, if she’s taken away than what’s left of her?

I admit, this is just some random musings of mine, I’m sure the case for her (if that’s even true) is not really that severe. Still, it’s quite an interesting thought that adds depth to her character, beyond just an unreasonable yuri yandere.

I thought of Ayase as someone a bit more selfish, who doesn't think of Kirino as her rival, but simply as her best friend. she may be taking the line of "best friends" a bit too far, though---which makes her appear more obsessive and perhaps possessive than she really is. actually, she might be misunderstanding the whole definition of friendship, which may explain why she was so pushy when Kirino was apparently not willing to reveal what she was doing---I'm trying to think of the line "best friends don't hide stuff from each other". it doesn't help, either, her strong belief in the good character of Kirino; Ayase sees her as someone incapable of doing anything bad. Her friendship and the idea that Kirino is a good person makes Ayase believe that it is her responsibility to take care of her, to protect her from the hands of evil. My interpretation sounds a bit far-fetched, though; but that's how I understood Ayase's behavior. I think she is a very interesting and complex character, sometimes hard to understand.

Kamonichan 2010-11-01 21:45

I'm especially interested that Ayase said, "You know I can't stand liars!" to Kirino. There's some backstory there that has yet to be revealed. Probably typical junior high past of "former friend(s) lied to me, now I have problems trusting other people!", but they may surprise us.

Vanish 2010-11-01 21:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamonichan (Post 3327307)
I'm especially interested that Ayase said, "You know I can't stand liars!" to Kirino. There's some backstory there that has yet to be revealed. Probably typical junior high past of "former friend(s) lied to me, now I have problems trusting other people!", but they may surprise us.

Though now that's mentioned, she also got a good example of a liar ('lying onii-san') which I find interesting in that context.

SaintessHeart 2010-11-02 12:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mentar (Post 3326220)
Thanks Klashikari ;)

To kick off the discussion: I'm a closet Ayase shipper, so take my words with a grain of salt. To kick off the discussion, I'd like to list what in my opinion she is NOT (from the other thread):

1) Ayase is not a Yandere!

2) Ayase is not batshit crazy!

3) Ayase is no controlling stalker!

You forget one thing :

4) Ayase belongs to Saintessheart. :D *dodges bricks*

Anyway, sooner or later, my bets will be that she will fall for her best friend's brother and seek to create a "threesome love relationship" with Kirino and Kyousuke. *dodges more bricks*

Kamonichan 2010-11-02 23:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart (Post 3328232)
You forget one thing :

4) Ayase belongs to Saintessheart. :D *dodges bricks*

Anyway, sooner or later, my bets will be that she will fall for her best friend's brother and seek to create a "threesome love relationship" with Kirino and Kyousuke. *dodges more bricks*

This person has a dream. I will follow their dream.

jeroz 2010-11-03 08:36

you know when in that txt she titled "lying onii-san", which part is she referring to?

the gentle friendly older brother? or the perverted sis-con?
which one is she referring to as a lie?

the general consensus seem to be the later and that she's really mature, but I can't help but think that there's still possibility for the first option. It could change the outlook of the situation and relationship so much.

Kamonichan 2010-11-03 12:52

I actually hadn't thought that she could have caught that he was lying about being a sis-con. She seems too easily obsessed with face-value to actually have caught on. I could be wrong, though, because ep. 5 didn't show her best side, I think.

Hooves 2010-11-03 16:40

If she was able to understand the incident between Kirino and Kyousuke in episode 4... Wouldnt she be able to understand the little lie Kyousuke was going around with Kirino in episode 5? Well, if the images of episode 4 flashed back into memories, then it would be hard to not believe it.

Undertaker 2010-11-04 02:23

While I love the anime adaption, Ayase's character does get destroyed a bit in this episode due to removed information on her background.

She's precisely the product of parents. My issue with this event lies in in the original novel material. While the novel did a good job on explaining why she would view ACG that way. As I mentioned in the Ep 5 thread, I can't shake the feeling that Ayase and Kirino are not "real" friend. I thought the novel went a bit too far on having Kyosuke takes the fall and telling her that he is in love with Kirino. Sure the scene is hilarious, but once the fun pasts it just make the whole thing felt a bit disconnected and discredits Ayase and Kirino's friendship.

I mean, like Kyosuke mentioned a bit early in their conversation, if they are real friend, why can she attempt to understand Kirino's hobby. Especially when all her reason for rejecting ACG was countered by Kyosuke and Kirino made it clear that she wanted to make up with Ayase. It really seem a bit inconsistent to the personality that she show earlier where she is portrayed an understanding, well-mannered, nice girl even if she is a bit stubborn.

Kamonichan 2010-11-04 04:25

Well, it's hard to tell. When it comes to Kyousuke, it seems people will believe him based on how much he's yelling. The louder he yells, the less absurd his obvious lie seems to other people. Very shounen of him, that.

yangxu 2010-11-08 16:00

Oh I don't know about "Ayase isn't yandere" part...
In the upcoming PSP game, some people from 2ch tweeted that there might be a route leading to Kyou's death because he "betrayed" Ayase. I don't know if this screenshot is photoshopped or real, but she's definitely twisted in her own way.

I don't consider this a spoiler, 'cause it's not even confirmed yet. But just in case.


Undertaker 2010-11-08 20:17

While the main series did not really state that, the drama CD that was released did imply her potential yandere side.

Spoiler for drama cd:

Lunar Archivist 2010-11-09 19:33

I pretty much hate Ayase's character after the fifth episode. She's an anti-otaku media drone with tunnel vision and obsessed with making Kirino whom she thinks she should be rather than accepting her for who she is. Some "best friend".

Seitsuki 2010-11-10 01:11

You have to realise though despite her extremely.. incompetent methods she was doing it all with Kirino's best interests at heart (what she thought were her best interests anyway). She did end up taking Kirino back, and while granted what she saw as the alternative was pretty damn perfect want unacceptable to her, it nevertheless shows that Ayase still cares for her.

In fact in this regard her character is rather similar to Kirino- don't forget that at the start Kirino as well was very awkward around her fellow otaku and wasn't sure how to be accepted. This is pretty much the same thing, just the other way round.

Finally her status as bait and potential for hawt yandere yuri action I believe that everyone should let her develop more before judging her.


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