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-   -   Ore no Imouto - Anime vs. Your Expectations (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=99562)

relentlessflame 2010-12-07 05:02

Ore no Imouto - Anime vs. Your Expectations
 
The purpose of this thread is for all posters -- whether first-time anime viewers or existing novel readers -- to express their opinion about the Ore no Imouto anime (so far) and how it has lived up to their expectations in terms of presentation, content, delivery, plot, animation, acting, and other matters. This can be considered a pre-cursor to the Overall Series Review thread that will be presented after the 12th TV episode will air. (I am supposing that we will post another Overall Series Review thread after the 4 additional episodes air, based on the "True Ending".) It is not intended to supplant the Series Review thread, though; only to allow the discussion of opinions still in development based on the content presented thus far.

Example topics to consider:
  • What were your expectations for the anime based on pre-conceived notions, if applicable? (Things you'd seen/read ahead of time, things you'd heard, character designs, etc.)
  • What were your expectations based on the first few episodes? Did your expectations change, and how?
  • Do you feel that the show has continued to live up to your expectations, or not? Why?
  • What, if anything, would you have liked to see changed in the anime?
  • (For Novel Readers) Is your perception of the story and characters as shown in the anime different than what you perceived in the original novels? (No future spoilers!)
  • What do you feel are the anime's greatest strengths? What are its greatest weaknesses?
  • Knowing about the show what you know now, do you believe you are part of the show's target audience?

Future Event Spoilers from the Novel are not permitted, even behind Spoiler Tags

Relevant Comparisons to already-seen events from the novels, or to other works, may be discussed behind properly-labeled spoiler tags ONLY.

Please keep discussions on-topic and relevant, and do not flame other members for their personal opinions (which are necessarily subjective). If you find a problematic post, please use the "Report Post" option and the moderation staff will investigate the issue as soon as possible.

Most importantly, have fun!

omimon 2010-12-07 06:39

Doesn't follow the LN closely enough. I think this pretty much summarizes what most people are thinking.

Ritsu026 2010-12-07 09:24

I first watched the anime and then I tried the Light Novels:D:D:D

Shadow5YA 2010-12-07 10:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by omimon (Post 3380474)
Doesn't follow the LN closely enough. I think this pretty much summarizes what most people are thinking.

This isn't necessarily a problem if the anime had its own original episodes that were better or just as good. This Ayase episode gave her more depth and exposure than the novels did. The Minami episode, while completely different from the novels plot-wise, accomplished the same thing.

However, the problem is when the main characters get no character development because of the changes. Ep 8, the story about Kirino's light novel, is a huge offender of this.

MeoTwister5 2010-12-07 11:06

On the upside, all the violence in the sub forum will get concentrated here so I don't have to read bickering from both sides every time I take a look.

As for me, as long as the series manages some sort of acceptable ending, I can live with it.

potchip 2010-12-07 21:02

Given LN as the source, you'd find there's not much more there either. As extra you'd get Kyousuke's narration but that's about it. The anime's been pretty faithful to the source material with a few exceptions, and the so called 'filler' are simply self-contained events in the LN. There's rarely an overarching plot in slice of life shows and I don't believe it is necessary either. There's not a whole lot they can do with the number of episodes therefore it is natural that characters felt underdeveloped. But then again the 'developments' tend to be tid bits reader discover about characters.

To be honest the Kirino hate is amusing given the only difference between Kirino and Kuroneko is the latter has a more acceptable personality. Character development-wise Kirino has way more exposure (ep1-3, ep5-6, ep8) than Kuroneko (who was rather static since ep 2), we don't even know what drives Kuroneko to be the way she is. I guess many viewers just cannot seperate dislike of a character sterotype from the story telling.

Funnily a lot of the omitted scenes are about Manami. I'm not a Manami shipper but she's pretty essential in the novels to tie together many threads but not getting much love. Ep6 gets chosen in the anime because it's easy to animate but there are better choices development-wise.

Spoiler for Manami sulk:


Spoiler for Manami visit:

Triple_R 2010-12-07 21:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by potchip (Post 3381391)
The anime's been pretty faithful to the source material with a few exceptions,

Episode 8 is a pretty big exception.


Quote:

...and the so called 'filler' are simply self-contained events in the LN. There's rarely an overarching plot in slice of life shows and I don't believe it is necessary either.
Just to be clear, most of the criticisms this anime has received focuses on character development, not plot development.

That being said, I think that slice of life shows sometimes have more plot to them than what they're given credit for, which as someone who very much likes overarching plots and find them beneficial, I think is great. For example, I found that K-On!! had a lot more plot than what some fans said it had (but that's a topic for another place and time, of course). As an aside, though, I have to wonder what you have against overarching plots? I personally find that they can aid a great deal in character development and providing good dramatic stories that help the viewer be more emotionally invested in the characters.


As it pertains to Ore no Imouto, I find that the various episode premises and plots for this anime have been pretty good, actually. Furthermore, there were two multi-episode plot arcs (for the first five episodes) that were very good. Truthfully, I get a sense that this anime does have an overarching plot. Or at the very least that's what I took from the first five episodes of this anime.

Whatever flaws are in the plot aspect of this anime is much more with failings in the execution of plot premises, and not in the plot premises themselves.


Quote:

There's not a whole lot they can do with the number of episodes therefore it is natural that characters felt underdeveloped. But then again the 'developments' tend to be tid bits reader discover about characters.

To be honest the Kirino hate is amusing given the only difference between Kirino and Kuroneko is the latter has a more acceptable personality.
That's a pretty big difference, don't you think?

I mean, isn't it fairly common for people to prefer characters with more endearing personalities to those with less endearing personalities?

Yes, there are exceptions to this in works of fiction (a good villain being an obvious one, of course). But with Kirino being in the role of lead female protagonist and obvious star of the show (going by how Ore no Imouto is advertised and promoted, at least), I don't see where Kirino is such an exception. In other words, I don't get much sense that we the viewer aren't supposed to like her, or to view her in an antagonistic light.


Quote:

Character development-wise Kirino has way more exposure (ep1-3, ep5-6, ep8) than Kuroneko (who was rather static since ep 2),
Actually, I felt that Episode 9 was a good start to fleshing out Kuroneko's character, and gave her some good character development. I was very pleased for this anime to show her when not in cosplay mode. We get to see behind Kuroneko's cosplay veil, which was a real treat. In sharp contrast, have we really gotten an opportunity to see behind Kirino's tsuntsun veil (presuming that it is a veil, as most of her fans seem to argue)?


Quote:


... we don't even know what drives Kuroneko to be the way she is.
Do we know what drives Kirino to be the way she is? I mean, do we truly know that?


Quote:

I guess many viewers just cannot seperate dislike of a character stereotype from the story telling.
No, many viewers just don't find Kirino's character to be appealing. Some of us feel that the story telling has not done a good job of making the way she treats her brother even understandable, let alone justified. I'd honestly settle for understandable at this point.

potchip 2010-12-07 23:45

Note regarding plot I was specifically referring to the source material, and LN formats in general. LNs come in chapters, most of which are self-contained. The plot threads are loose, though decent authors do remember what was written earlier and can draw upon past events, but 'plot' is just one out of many elements in LN's arsenal, never an essential element.

As for 'character development', I'll do a run down what can be deduced from the top of my head:
amber haired bitch:
is passionate about things she like
good academically/sports
is 100% tsuntsun to bro, except maybe ep3 end
does not compromise
understands the weight of responsibility and expectations of other people
not honest with her feelings to certain people/bad at expressing it
is possessive
siscon fetish, by extension moeblob
hate pretentious shows
hide otaku hobby from normal friends
typically do not ask for help -> need an excuse to ask bro to do things
try-hard and is usually successful


black thing -
not honest with her feelings to certain people/bad at expressing it
kind behind the facade - loving sister
hate moe blob
like plotty shows
pretty good at handicraft
skilled gamer
poor social skills/interact with non-otakus
try-hard but not successful at certain things

Both characters really did not 'develop' in the sense change the why they behave. We've learnt bits and pieces and character got 'fleshed out'. In the most recent episode, Ayase and Kirino are somewhat converging on the otaku side of things, but fundamentally character's values did not change, just circumstances warrants different type of interactions.

Finally as for why Kirino treats Kyousuke this way, I'm sure you've heard it all before. There's no point preaching a concept outright rejected by the other side.

Triple_R 2010-12-08 00:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by potchip (Post 3381608)
Note regarding plot I was specifically referring to the source material, and LN formats in general. LNs come in chapters, most of which are self-contained. The plot threads are loose, though decent authors do remember what was written earlier and can draw upon past events, but 'plot' is just one out of many elements in LN's arsenal, never an essential element.

Ok, I see what you mean now. Yes, that's a very good assessment of light novels.

This level of plot also works well in a slice of life anime. I think that we might have been taking the term "overarching plot" a bit differently from one another.

I meant it to mean "anything not totally episodic". I get the sense that you probably took it to mean something as tight and ever-present as, say, the plot of Code Geass.

You're right that a slice of life anime doesn't need something as ever-present and tight as that in its plot.


Quote:


As for 'character development', I'll do a run down what can be deduced from the top of my head:
amber haired bitch:
is passionate about things she like
good academically/sports
is 100% tsuntsun to bro, except maybe ep3 end
does not compromise
understands the weight of responsibility and expectations of other people
not honest with her feelings to certain people/bad at expressing it
is possessive
siscon fetish, by extension moeblob
hate pretentious shows
hide otaku hobby from normal friends
typically do not ask for help -> need an excuse to ask bro to do things
try-hard and is usually successful


That's probably a good summation of her character, yes. And in fairness there's some good points here... but for a lot of people the very title you assigned to Kirino is what can be overriding. ;) :heh:

I'll admit, though, that the way you lay it out as made me reconsider something - Kirino's character is constructed with a fair deal of thought and a certain type of consistency. I mean, the vast majority of her character elements seem to naturally fit with one another.


Quote:


black thing -
not honest with her feelings to certain people/bad at expressing it
kind behind the facade - loving sister
hate moe blob
like plotty shows
pretty good at handicraft
skilled gamer
poor social skills/interact with non-otakus
try-hard but not successful at certain things
On the other hand, I think you're a bit too hard on Kuroneko here. I love her cosplay persona. It's really a lot of fun and show's courage and charisma on her part, imo. I mean, not many people would have the sheer intestinal fortitude to go around everywhere dressed up like something straight out of the Touhou games or Rozen Maiden.


Quote:

Both characters really did not 'develop' in the sense change the why they behave.
True, I'll give you that.


Quote:

Finally as for why Kirino treats Kyousuke this way, I'm sure you've heard it all before. There's no point preaching a concept outright rejected by the other side.
Honestly, I thank you for sparing me. :heh: As such, I'll spare you the counter to that concept as well, lol.

Vexx 2010-12-08 23:07

In my case, I had no expectations. I had not read the LN or anything else - just knew what the preview summary said ("little sister into non-mainstream hobbies").

So all my incoming expectations are based on what the few few episodes themselves implied.

Net result so far? Great but flawed - a lot of really interesting potential, some fascinating story thread starts... but much of it left in the air to start yet more threads. The intent of most anime is to get you to buy the source and the merchandise... in that sense it might succeed as I may hunt up the source. But really, good anime should be able to stand on its own as a story and rise up above "infomercial".

I certainly enjoy the series... but like many other series I like a lot, it is certainly still a bit lacking in some ways - so far.

Flere821 2010-12-09 03:46

I've watched 10 episodes of the anime, and then went to finish the 7 volume of LNs currently out recently. I have to say the two is different but the Anime adaption has its own charms, plus though the events are different at least the major plot-based events/character developments haven't changed that much.

Bottom line, I had no expection for the anime would be like when I first started it (frankly, I only started this series due to a cross-over with Toaru Majutsu no Index), but I have to say it is certainly a good series (albeit one I'd never recommend to anyone that's not already a anime fan, for the sake of appearances...)

B2-Lancer 2011-03-26 08:55

I haven't read/got the manga or light novel, but from what I hear I think the creator will do a PC cop-out and bail out the Kyousuke-Ayase route -- though I'm sure deep inside he's for KxK. Alternatively, I can see a Kyousuke-Kirino pairing (just to finally kill all the teases between them) but I think it'd be very brief/burn-out before they jadedly fall out into regular sibs again (like most real sib-pairings do), though Kirino might occasionally knock on his door for some otaku hedonic kicks and he'll begrudge her since the guilt milk's already been spilled and she's good practice for Ayase. But if a writer's real creative, a sib-pair series can be lots of fun with all kinds of unique situations and perils that don't face normal pairs, and just to see someone play with that seldom tread territory I'd be for Kyousuke-Kirino all the way.

Vexx 2011-03-26 12:19

Allowing that the anime is a 'retelling in own words' short version of the LN... it made the same direction error that Petopetosan did. In Imouto's case... it was the LN adventure derail (in Petopetosan, it was the 'little sister festival and contest'). Both gouged a considerable chunk of the series that had set up very interesting relationship dynamics.... and then lost their momentum.

I still like the series as such but I just view the anime as an introduction trailer to the light novels.

larethian 2011-03-26 12:47

never did notice this thread; but there is quite a lot of things cut out in the anime. and the mobile novel arc is pretty messed up, with many differences (not faithful at all). and I absolutely love the LN version. I really want to translate that, though I don't think I'd have the time, now that I'm pitting myself against the upcoming Itsuten anime haha :p

@B2-Lancer, I hate to say this, but the sib-pair possibility will never come to pass (except for the games), and I don't know why you think the author is gunning for KxK, because every nuance and behaviour in the novel say otherwise, unless you're referring to a non-romantic kind of KxK end.

to conclude however, I don't dislike the anime. some scenes in animation are pretty nice, like Kyousuke crying in 11 (I'm such an S haha :p).

Dist 2011-03-29 14:01

^Really ? I read in wikipedia once below Kirino's name that Kirino and Kousaka would develop an incestuous relationship in the later light novels .. But now it's been removed so I'm guessing it was false ?

Quite sad really .. I wanted for it to be true and perhaps have an OVA about it :( ( Incest is wincest etc. )

ion475 2011-03-29 18:32

Spoiler:


As far as the main topic goes - with the exception of Episode 8 (It's just BAD, REALLY BAD...they totally butchered the original idea and make Kirino looks REALLY bad), and episode 9 (Original episode, so it doesn't count), the anime is mostly faithful to the source. There are bad pacing here and there (The Manami chapters from Vol. 2 and 3 are condensed too much). Without the time constraint, though, the anime just look MUCH better (Episode 12TR and 13, for example).

D-Gold 2011-03-29 19:36

I always found episode 8 to be a joke. i mean its a episode that is not faithful to the light novel and it talks about how kirino's anime would have original content and not be faithful to the LN she wrote.


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