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PathofNightshade 2004-03-23 01:20

Bunshin morality?
 
I see in episode 73 that bunshins, kage bunshins actually do have a soul. Does this mean they are simply living breathing, thinking replicants of their summoner's? If this is true, does it mean that every time one goes up in a poof of smoke someone is dying? If this is true, it is most definetly immoral and cruel to use kagebunshin no jutsu. Its like sentencing your identical twin to death. I wonder if they go to heaven or hell?
Thoughts anyone?

OhJustSomeRandomGuy 2004-03-23 01:26

The bunshins are manifestations of your chakra. Only Naruto's talk back to him, and I don't think they "breathe" or "live" at all. Like if Naruto had one of them stay underwater forever, it could theoretically provided he had enough chakra.

The smoke is just the disspation of the chakra that comprises them. Seeing as how they're outside of Naruto's touch range, he can't really control the chakra that comprises them all that well, once it gets disrupted, it's just chakra in the air...they're not an entire life form at all.

Merco 2004-03-23 01:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by PathofNightshade
I see in episode 73 that bunshins, kage bunshins actually do have a soul. Does this mean they are simply living breathing, thinking replicants of their summoner's? If this is true, does it mean that every time one goes up in a poof of smoke someone is dying? If this is true, it is most definetly immoral and cruel to use kagebunshin no jutsu. Its like sentencing your identical twin to death. I wonder if they go to heaven or hell?
Thoughts anyone?

I think Kishimoto purposely made the Kage Bushins ambiguous. They hold the same morals as the one who summoned them, and if the person who summoned them wasn't willing to die for his cause, then neither would the Kage Bushins.

A similar tangent occurs with the whole bathroom incident. They all had the same bathroom urges when Naruto drank the bad milk and summoned them *chuckles*. But the fact that one of them was the only one of them was real didn't occur to them. Mind over matter so to speak.

The real Naruto can order them around by some telepathic link I imagine. If they weren't ready to die, then they wouldn't follow Naruto's orders. Technically they don't really die though, since they disappear from one strike.

(edit: oh yeah, and I agree with everything OhJustSomeRandomGuy said

Kyuven 2004-03-23 01:31

they're replicas
much like ripping files from a disc or whatever

rEkKaShInObI 2004-03-23 01:33

I think the anime will soon go beyond our control, there will be things that cannot be explained and might as well be bogus. This thread does bring up allot of questions though...

JOJOS'STAR 2004-03-23 02:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by PathofNightshade
I see in episode 73 that bunshins, kage bunshins actually do have a soul. Does this mean they are simply living breathing, thinking replicants of their summoner's? If this is true, does it mean that every time one goes up in a poof of smoke someone is dying? If this is true, it is most definetly immoral and cruel to use kagebunshin no jutsu. Its like sentencing your identical twin to death. I wonder if they go to heaven or hell?
Thoughts anyone?

You didn't get it. A Kagebushin is still 1 soul. Its only separated in tree concerning Sarutobi. The Fuu-jin seal gets the 1rst and 2nd okage's soul trough Sarutobi's kagebushins to his single soul.

Nerd Saga 2004-03-23 02:24

I thought about the Bunshin jutsu before too, i think that the bunshin's know they're not human or real and are controlled by the original. they do however show tendencies of the original.

Bunshin's are just balls of chakra and when hit dissapate*sp
so it's not immoral to use them.

Kydrone 2004-03-23 02:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by JOJOS'STAR
You didn't get it. A Kagebushin is still 1 soul. Its only separated in tree concerning the Okage. The Fuu-jin seal reache the 1rst and 2nd okage's soul trough the First's kagebushin to the single First okage's soul.

whoa confusing :)

Kydrone

JOJOS'STAR 2004-03-23 02:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kydrone
whoa confusing :)

Kydrone

lol yeah I noticed. I did an edit ^^

PathofNightshade 2004-03-23 22:49

wait
during episode 73 you can distinctly see the faces of the 1st and 2nd. Both of them are connected to a sould that looks exactly like the one bound by the Reaper. They arent just chakra balls, they have souls.

Akichan 2004-03-23 23:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by PathofNightshade
wait
during episode 73 you can distinctly see the faces of the 1st and 2nd. Both of them are connected to a sould that looks exactly like the one bound by the Reaper. They arent just chakra balls, they have souls.

They weren't quite the same though. That was the First and Second's soul put into another body, I believe. So it's actually them, resurrected...kinda. That's why their souls can be sealed. They are not bunshins or Kage Bunshins.

Edit: And if you're talking about Sarutobi (in case I misunderstood) his Kage Bunshins accept the seals probably because the host accepts the seals (as noted above) the morals tend to go with the person who summoned the clones.

MikoKikyo 2004-03-23 23:37

Yeep...
like Akichan said, the manifestations of the 1st and 2nd originate from a different technique, not to be confused with bunshins/kage bunshins.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OhJustSomeRandomGuy
The bunshins are manifestations of your chakra. Only Naruto's talk back to him, and I don't think they "breathe" or "live" at all. Like if Naruto had one of them stay underwater forever, it could theoretically provided he had enough chakra.
...they're not an entire life form at all.

Exactly lol I really don't think they have a life of their own... (gee, talk about over analyzing...)

duskphoenix 2004-03-24 00:07

I think the real questions here are about the morality of using kage bunshins for stem-cell research: moral? immoral? pointless since they go poof as soon as you stick a needle in them? Think about it. Or not.

raikage 2004-03-24 00:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by duskphoenix
I think the real questions here are about the morality of using kage bunshins for stem-cell research: moral? immoral? pointless since they go poof as soon as you stick a needle in them? Think about it. Or not.

Not always. Kagebunshins have been known to take some hits and still stay 'alive'.

socomberetta 2004-03-24 00:13

Do those bunshins that can take several hits differ from the generic ones because of a higher amount of chakra, or do they have a subconscious pull to stay 'alive' as long as possible.

Merco 2004-03-24 00:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by socomberetta
Do those bunshins that can take several hits differ from the generic ones because of a higher amount of chakra, or do they have a subconscious pull to stay 'alive' as long as possible.

It's more of a chakra control thing I would think... so long as the caster keeps enough concentration on the clones they wouldn't disappear as easily.

socomberetta 2004-03-24 00:21

Ahh, so clones that are closer to the real person's proximity have a better chance of surviving multiple hits than those that are farther off.

Uchiha Itachi 2004-03-24 00:33

People people...wats dis? kagebunshins wit souls dat go to heaven or hell? Morals of it? I mean jus relax...ur thinking too hard.....jus kno dat kage bunshins r replications that go out in smoke and r there to make the anime/manga plot/battles more interesting. i mean...cmon...its anime.....it doesnt have to make sense. But hey, but dats jus my opinion.

MikoKikyo 2004-03-24 16:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uchiha Itachi
People people...wats dis? kagebunshins wit souls dat go to heaven or hell? Morals of it? I mean jus relax...ur thinking too hard.....jus kno dat kage bunshins r replications that go out in smoke and r there to make the anime/manga plot/battles more interesting. i mean...cmon...its anime.....it doesnt have to make sense. But hey, but dats jus my opinion.

Yea. couldn't agree more there ...


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