[Neku]

Originally Posted by Eidolon Sniper

I wasn't adding that to Ledgem's statement. .______. It was MY Addition, arrogant = Ledgem statement. I mean, if Shinn was arrogant like he is right now in Destiny, he could have some awful "I am emo" personality quirks before Destiny happened, because people do not necessarily become that arrogant just because they want to. There is always a reason for that.

Originally Posted by Snipy in previous post

What made you think Shinn had an awful, arrogant personality before the war?

Right. I do not deny that you're definitely adding to Ledgem's words.
Snipy, I need to tell you that it is advisable to re-read what you have wrote, or a much better advice is that, it is always better to admit that you're wrong once in a while. You gain a little more respect from that.

Oh wow, when did people suddenly become thoughtless thinking of other people's safety first before their own needs...? It became complicated because Shinn was in the military at that time...

Ah. So that's what you meant.
But that doesn't move my view on how Shinn is thoughtless.
So, he thought of Stellar's safety. Yep. Only hers. He didn't bothered to think of the consequences. What consequences, I believe you know; it's in the series.

Yes, thanks to almighty Morosawa.

Mm, let's not bring in plot devices. The involvement of that can only mean that you win, yes. But not exactly through debating, is it?

Anyway, why are you ascribing everything I said to Ledgem's remarks? I am saying Shinn is an ass and Shinn is awful. So there. That Lunamaria bit was a tad bit overboard into making sure he gets on the CE hate list for all eternity. Can you connect how Shinn was at the beginning of Destiny into the way he turned out at its end? Ep 34 Shinn was the beginning of his end.

1. Well, because you were replying to Ledgem, were you not?
2. Ah, so it was you yourself who is the one who stated that Shinn is awful, and is an ass. I was confused because you were highlighting that of Ledgem's statement, and replacing his words with "ass".
3. I didn't think Fukuda wanted Shinn to have more anti-fans.
4. To answer your question, yes, I can. Shinn did not change from the beginning of Destiny, until towards the end; the final phase that he achieved a realization of things. Before that, we see the same old Shinn, only getting more and more arrogant.. and thoughtless, or should I say; thinking at his very own point of view.

Seriously though, Shinn didn't try to protect his friends cause he just "felt" like it, Shinn hurt those soldiers intentionally because he knew he had to save Stellar and that really called for drastic measures (they were determined to bring Stellar back to the PLANTs or some random research facility where she is going to be dissected or God knows what in order to find out how she "works"; Shinn was the only one who thought of Stellar as a human being aboard that ship who actually did something that was VERY wrong to save her), and Shinn's WTF Lunamaria moment was just something that the scriptwriter needed to do because really, the story became really fast paced at the end, and if they are going to paint Shinn as the loser that he really is, his "mind rape" by Dully and Rey should now show its true colors...

Mm, true in the case that he was protecting Stellar.
But I thought I was talking about how he intentionally hurt the ZAFT infantry, and how wanted to hurt Rey as well. Aren't ZAFT soldiers his comrades? Isn't Rey his friend? If his friend, in this case, Rey did not support him, then the statement about wanting to protect his friend is entirely gone, because we all know that Shinn was protecting his lover.

Ah, if you bring in the scriptwriter, I can say I gladly admit defeat, because there's no way I can debate over a scriptwriter's needs.

Thanks to Morosawa's magical pen yes that was WHAT actually happened.

Thank you. So you do not deny that Shinn indeed went out of his mind and whatever I said after that. That is sufficient.

Then, pray tell, can you tell me how cutting off the arm of an enemy soldier or anybody actually threatening your life makes it any different from killing that person to stop him from doing that to others? Cutting off a limb, disabling him by severing nerve connections or whatever = maybe right because he was really threatening you and you defended yourself. But how about that person? You forcibly push that person to depend on others for his livelihood. He wouldn't be able to feed his family, or attend to the needs of his children, depending on the maim that he received. It's even worse than death. Because his body parts suddenly lost one or two or three, his entire future is already jeopardized. And how can you explain to children who depend on him, or are also still getting maimed by mines all around the world that? You are not the one who lost a limb. You are not the one who now has to depend on others for your livelihood. There are people who actually saw the light at the end of that hellish tunnel and lived contentedly in spite of what happened, but still, there are people who just stayed in the darkness forever. The point is, both methods are either right or wrong in some aspects, and war certainly is the place for them. But in a war, morality is shot, what other people believe on one side is right to them, as what other people on the opposite side also believe. War simply is stating the obvious: the one who wins the war usually feel that they are the right people in the war, and so their ideals prevail. But of course, you really cannot prevent other people from thinking otherwise, because that is their right.

You didn't have to type so long.
All you have to say is, you agree with winter45 except you are twisting it a little and adding a lot more.
Mm, this point of yours would be useful if Kira is really disabling someone by cutting off his arm. But he isn't, is he? Instead, it is a mobile suit's arm he chopped off. Please differentiate between mecha and human.

*coughMWUcough*

Ah. That is why I stated "after the airing of Destiny".
At times you need to read what you've stated, what you are replying to and what that person is replying to.