[Game] Umineko no Naku Koro ni - Ep. 3 Banquet of the golden witch
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Originally Posted by
Guess: Ange was supposed to come but gave up at the last time (sick). It was something unexpected. It's commented in the first episode
If the needing all the family members is a necessity than, "Beatrice" probably would have waited or at the very least probably would have made some comment about Ange. To me, it seems like needing the family members all present isn't a priority or a necessity.
I think it was mentioned in earlier episodes, but it's purely a guess
The windows are manually locked/unlocked from inside without the need of keys, if I'm not mistaken (well, my house is like that too, hehehe). And since I also do not remember anything contrary to this, it will be my hypothesis. (probatio diabolica)
It's even said in this episode:
Originally Posted by
Part 09 B
ちなみに、６つの部屋の扉や窓はいずれも普通。オートロックのような鍵を使用せず施錠できるよ うな仕掛けは 存在しない。
Personally, this red text is absolutely useless. As I said before, Beato never reds that any of these 6 rooms as closed rooms. It's possible at least 3 of the 6 rooms may not have been true locked rooms.
1. The sanctuary. In ep 02, Beatrice never reds this room as a 密室. She only talks about the invulnerable door and how 6 people entered through the door. There is a possibility that there is a hidden passage way here which Beato never denies like with the other rooms.
2. Boiler room. How come the door that leads outside isn't mentioned at all? Where is the regular key (the non-master key) for this door?
3. 1st Floor Guest room where Shannon's body was found. Rudolf breaks the window, opens the lock to the window, then the adults go inside. After being inside, the adults think that this is a locked room. The big WHAT IF here is, was the window locked to begin with? They never tried to open the window. Rudolf just breaks it and everyone assumes it was locked. There is no way to confirm this as Rudolf prevents this prior the adults entering the room. (I forgot to cover this point in my previous post. I thought I wrote this out... I might have took it out thinking I should have placed it in a later place)
The game avoids talking about any of these issues.
My useless theories:
One interesting fact about the secret rooms is:
Kinzo and Kanon were the only ones who could not lock themselves (battler's theory of accidental death supposed the last locked person locking himself).
- Kanon had a master key with him but, from ep2, it can't open the sanctuary.
- Kinzo didn't have masterkey
I was under the impression that the doors could be locked from inside. But as far as the the Sanctuary goes, you're right. That uses some type of pad lock, irrc.
Since Beato was about to deny the accident theory, the death by natural causes remains as the only option I can think.
Be careful there. Beato didn't deny it, although I also assumed that she would have. As of right now, 病死 is the most likely if accidental, suicide, murder, or caused by a trap is not.
There are some other possibilities... but I didn't want to go that direction.
The main problem I have is 他殺 doesn't legally cover the following in most cases:
manslaughter (is this covered in accidental?)
self-defense (is this also covered in accidental or in Beatrice's definition of 他殺?)
I would hate it if Beatrice gets that technical with terminology tho.
I can't think of any other possibilities at the moment. And you're right, Beatrice never reds it isn't a 他殺. Maybe it's b/c these two possibility might be the cause but borderlines the definition so she didn't want to say either or... My biggest grip about this is, there's no sign of struggle which should be the case if self-defense is the cause. Hence I still think 病死 is the most likely.
Considering this hypothesis:
My biggest issue with the burnt corpse is this is a re-occurring event thus likely a planned event rather than an impulsive action.
Nanjo's murder was the easiest of all and Rias already solved it.
May not be. Klashikari made me think of an entire new direction of thought
You made me think about this:
Originally Posted by
It seems you didn't understand well the issue in my first reasoning
The problem is that in the red text, Beatrice used "human".
As result, she can say there isn't more than 18 human on the island, yet allow the existance of "non human" (be it witches, animal whatever) on the island doing the crimes etc.
I don't see much contradiction as she didn't say herself that she is "dead" so can do all the things. She even repeated a lot of time she is "a spirit per se" and only get released from her cage of flesh. She even says that she didn't commit suicide, despite it should be the case.
Therefore, I don't think we can count Beatrice as a X that is dead and evades the "count".
Basically she cannot be part of the number of people counted, because of the assumption she is not human. She insisted on the "human" portion of the red text, so it allows anything non human, eve thousand of them, as long as there aren't any more people than the current 18
by contrast, when beato mentioned the first 6, she again used "
", which is was part of the 18 people red text. Therefore, they do count, especially if you consider the almight red text sword Eva-beatrice uses in the end
If we are to believe the argument that 魔女≠人間、 what about 家具？
In Beatrice's eyes, ロノウェ + 塚７姉妹 and Eva Beatrice's new servants are on the island yet aren't counted as human. If these 家具 are not counted, why would she count Kinzo's 家具 when she repetitively says in EP 02 they are not human?
Both Beato and EVA Beatrice named who are dead, but neither claim that the 家具 are human to begin with or that the only people on the island are those that are named. I'm a bit perplex which way to take Beatrice's statement here. If I was Battler, I would request a 人間定義
chronotrig's post also made me think of another possible plot twist: the possibility Kinzo is already dead prior to night 1. The only people who talked to him were Nanjo, Genji, Shannon, Kanon, and Krauss. If this is a secret Krauss want to keep, and as the current 当主 he would have the authority to do so.
Personally, I doubt the above as it doesn't add up in my eyes with the situation presented before us. But the whole
could be misleading us to believe that all the characters we know are alive prior to night 1 and the only people on the island. Beatrice only state who are dead. She never states that these specific names are the only people on the island. So there is a possibility of upto 4 other people on the island. It's a long shot imho.
Again, I think I'll ignore this possibility of a 19+ person(s) until I can determine a situation in the story where none of the 18 people we know are on the island can preform the act.
More on the Riddle
Another long shot.
Second attempt at the riddle. I'm going to forget about Eva at the moment and think about what Rosa said: 黄金の卿. What is the meaning of the の?
Forget the family line = 川.
If you really read this as word play, it might be 「の」の川。
「の」 separates the familiar word 黄金卿. In other words, the word puzzle
is self contain. We don't need to have knowledge about the family, places,
or anything else. We just need to look at the riddle:
There's 3 rivers of の here. 1 does go through the 懐かしき、故郷： 黄金卿
If this the correct way to see this riddle, then what does 二人が口にし岸を探れ mean?
二人? does that mean repeated text? 黄金, 全て, 蘇らせ are repeated.
Does it mean words trapped within the の？全て, 死者. Maybe the line before it says 四つの
Eva gave us these definite hints:
海？ This is a key phrase Eva gave us. 蘇 = 魚？ 魚のいる場所は海? Seems too big of a stretch.
The key is a 6 letter word that isn't read as 6 letters.
If the 懐かしき、故郷 = 黄金卿 or 黄金の卿 then possible work with this?
黄 = きいろ(3), き (1), おう (2), こう (2), こ(1), たそ (2 - as in 黄昏), よ (1 - as in 黄泉)
金 = かね (2), かな (2), きん (2), こん (2)
の = の (1), ignore (0)?
卿 = きょう (3), けい (2), or if 卿=里 then are we suppose to read it as さと (2), or り (1)? Maybe just さと as 故郷 can be read as こきょう or ふるさと
So 黄金の卿 can have [1-3]++[0-1]+[1-3] letters in ひらがな.
Assuming the last is さと then that's limits it to:
Assuming you shouldn't read it as おう・ごん・きょう
That leaves us with follow possibilities...
[き (1), , こう (2), こ(1), たそ (2)]+[かね (2), かな (2), きん (2)]+[「 」 (0)、の (1)]+[さと]
hmm.... こかねのさと sounds the best. こがねのさと?
But how does this guide us through the rest of the riddle...
Again, this is just another long shot. I don't think that this is right, but just another possible route that came to mind this weekend.
Last edited by nagare; 2008-09-02 at
. Reason: Forgot about 「よ」 as in 黄泉
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