View Single Post
Old 2008-09-24, 10:09   Link #2944
BleachOD
Banned
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Kneeling in front of my ICHIGO SHRINE.
Before the show does it for me...

Since I have screams of "If it were current I would take you seriously"
I will start out with current. 24-21, then move on to Alto's past behavior.(like I said before it doesn't matter what episode I start from, the outcome is still the same)
The thing is you can love a person without being in love with them. Love is also an emotion that is reflected through your behavior.

I am sorry but I am going to make a few Bleach comparisons. Simply because I met some IchiRuki and some of the most common evidence used in Bleach have been ignored in Macross. With that said....


*Plays Private Army*

Episode 24

(For this episode, I used raws. Mkv's don't always work on my xbox. You don't have to click on the thumbnails for 24)

So I have to ask you "Young Westley" did you really think about Sheryl's words and not just her actions? I don't think you did or else you wouldn't be winking.(Imageshack is acting freaky ignore the repeated scenes. I refuse to edit right now. This took long enough as it is)

The episode that Westley prematurely saying "Victory Wink"


Lets review that tender moment. It is by comparing those moments that it becomes obvious. Alto loves Ranka and the fans love Alto and Sheryl

Here we have the only time Alto has ever sought Sheryl on his own. (One time means nothing).
Here we have Sheryl remembering Alto's words, his feelings for Ranka.
This is where she reminds me of Orihime. She constantly affirms Alto's love for Ranka. (She does; you just ignore it. Hold your horses I will get to it. You screamed for current; that's what you get)

After an exchange Sheryl tells Alto she wants to stop "pretending" to be lovers.

Again I have to ask you...Why are they pretending( If Alto loves Sheryl likes Sheryl does Alto. Why can't he just say "I'm with Sheryl"? If Ranka is no more a friend of his what's the hold-up? There is no reason for hesitation. If Sheryl is Alto's choice then why can't he Just choose?!

Have you noticed that Sheryl kissed Alto once again?

Sheryl kissed Alto and not the other way around. If you look at his eyes. They are filled with sadness. They do not express love. Alto is just being kissed.
Not mention, Sheryl interrupts before Alto can speak. Even so I don't think it would have been a declaration of love. More like an apology; I can see that Sheryl understands that too. Which is why she stops him and tells him to go and save Ranka. She understands that Alto's feelings for Ranka are unresolved. She sent him off knowing how he feels. Their exchange imo was more like former lovers parting as friends.

I would have taken this a bit more seriously. Had the flashback, the one that confirms his feelings for Ranka not been included. If they would have left out Sheryl saying "Let's end this lovers game" (Or stop pretending; same difference) *shrugs* Had Alto actually kissed Sheryl and not the other way around.
Had the kiss not been shown from Sheryl's perspective. The emotions are presented on her part. She curls her hand but Alto does no such thing. He just stands there. If his past behavior didn't enforce that fact that he was with her out of guilt; I might have felt threatened. Just because you kiss a guy and lets you, doesn't mean he likes you.



Episode 23

Don't they look picture perfect?

They do; right? However there is something wrong with this picture.

For one thing let's take the kitchen scene. Here is the happy couple preparing a meal together. Let's not examine Sheryl. We are aware of her feelings. It's Alto's we are questioning I'm not

*Ahem*...

Sheryl asks Alto if she is something he has "To explain" (To whom; is what I am wondering) He's says he didn't mean like that and Sheryl cuts her finger.
I saw in here somewhere that one of you said. Her unwillingness to let him tend her cut, is due to her being self-reliant.
I disagree since she already agreed to rely on him...here.
Sheryl's refusal was based on him being there out of guilt. The pain on her face and his, clearly demonstrates the lack of emotional connection that is needed in a stable relationship.


Secondly pay attention Alto. Notice he has no idea how to reach her. He wants to but he cannot because he doesn't know how. They lack "The understanding that he has with Ranka. He smiles but it's forced it isn't a genuine smile. Because of the uncomfortable tension he turns his back.

Just like OrihimeSheryl is staring at his back. Only her feelings are being developed. Not Altos.

When he's with Ranka his smile looks like this and if his eyes are closed it's because it's out of genuine laughter. Not forced emotion.


This scene was very cute. The reason I didn't see it as special.(Besides the fact that she once again is sprawled out on the floor ..er.. COUCH this time

they are not given a chance to connect.) Once again Alto's feelings for his mother comes into play.
If Alto had not been shown pitying Sheryl I might see her as a threat. because of this moment;I don't
.

"You can't leave! I demand you stay by my side the whole time" <--The reason I can't see it as an affirmation of hiS love for Sheryl. This is the third time Alto's mother plays the third wheel in what could be a moment.

The first time was here. After being told my Michel to seek out Sheryl That's the part I don't get. How many times has she ended up sprawled, or nearly sprawled on the floor in front him?!

How come it didn't occur to him to say. "I am worried" about Sheryl? Could it be he was to preoccupied with thoughts of Ranka?

Anyway...;

When approaching and entering the room. Alto's thoughts are of his mother. They aren't of Sheryl; as a matter of fact. He doesn't even see her at first.
Tip: When a guy looks at you and sees his mother. That isn't a positive sign of love.
More than likely you are replacement, or a vessel that he can project his maternal love onto. That is not what love is.

Then again when he "chose Sheryl"


This moment would have had more meaning had Sheryl not been in his mothers room. If she was not suffering a terminal illness. If they did not show the picture of him and his mother, before he vowed to stay by her side. Had Alto worried about her and not been told by Klan, that Sheryl was dying before he went to see her.
If Sheryl confessed instead of confirming Alto was there out of guilt "So you heard?" "I see"
If the Manga-ka/Animators didn't always inject her or Ranka in any of them.

These are bridges that keeps you from being totally enamored of them as a couple.
And do you realize you guys use words like "It was good to see Alto FINALLY worry about Sheryl" "This romance is UNDERDEVELOPED" "I am GLAD Alto didn't jump at the chance to save Ranka" Why is that? Why do you think it is you are saying that? If this romance is so cut and dry how come you all are constantly complaining about the fact that Alto isn't worried enough or you are happy when Alto FINALLY pays Sheryl some attention? Could it be although you can't admit it, you see exactly what I see but your love Sheryl makes you deny it?

Now that I have dealt with "current". I am going to back track a bit. (Since I already have this written I might as well post them)
*Pauses* Woah Woah Woah! Let me switch the beat. *Plays " Strong and Strike" -Naruto 1st OST*

this has been bugging me....
What's the difference?

Here we have Alto in a similar situation in an exchange with both girls. What's the difference between the two?

For one thing...In Alto's conversation with Sheryl (besides the thought of his mother) Ranka is mentioned and Alto speaks as if she were a unit.


When it comes to Ranka
Well for thing... Once she called Alto he came RACING like a bat out of hell


Alto starts out as "Ranka why won't you sing" Nearly the same as with Sheryl . Except,Sheryl is never mentioned...


The difference is she managed to stop him short by bringing up something they share and the words"Alto-kun I need a favor".
One of his quirks that she knows. He smiles and agrees. While doing so she asks him "Want made you want to fly?"

Then they have a moment in which Alto is a willing participant
<--Look at Alto. He's so happy he appears luminescent.

Random: did you look at the icon he has on his phone for Ranka? Thats love.



*psst IchiRuki?!*
Now this where the Bleach parallels are strong.



Most IchiRuki fans use the "Memories in the rain" chapters along with Orihime's " Cant smile don't blame me" & "One way sympathies"<--One way (My bad. it's been awhile since I stabbed the demons)
Rukia shares this moment with Ichigo.

Alto willingly shares this Ranka.

Alto's shares a part of his past with Ranka. He not only shared it with her he thanks her. (Dude is literally glowing! He's never appeared as happy with Sheryl ever)
Orihime learns about the death of Ichigo's mother, through Tatsuki. In it Orihime is walking home from Tatsuki's house learning about it by-proxy.
All the while Rukia is with Ichigo and deepening their bonds


Likewise, Sheryl learns about his feelings from another; not Alto.

Even then she said "I am of no use to you"

These moments between Alto and Ranka is much the same. (Like Ichigo and Rukia's) There is a slight difference between the two. Alto's decision to become a pilot was born out of love for his mother. His desire to protect Ranka is the reason he joined the military (It's not like he couldn't have been a pilot without doing so)
For Ichigo his decision to accept being a Shinigami was based on his mothers death. The means to protect and make piece over it was given to him by Rukia.




Their goodbye is reminiscent of Ichigo's and Rukia's .This parting is also used as evidence of IchiRuki. But I noticed that some IchiRuki ignore the same thing in Macross.
Quote:
The Alto-Ranka scene is basically a rejection/resignation scene.
Thank you for pointing that out. I disagree...
For one thing...Ranka believes "My songs will never reach you" because she saw Alto and Sheryl in an embrace. She doesn't know that ALL was NOT as it seemed. Yet she was still going to take a chance and ask Alto to leave with her anyway. It's only his hatred that made her give up. She is connected to the Vajira. It hurts her when they die. Alto hates that, so she probably believes he will hate that too.

Cris you're IchiRuki right? That scene isn't reminiscent of their first goodbye?
Rukia/Ranka leaves with tears in her eyes (with the enemy) Ichigo/Alto screams her name and begs her not to go...

What part of that scene looked like a rejection and from who's part? Alto or Ranka?

There was a confession(Alto confesses also just not to Ranka in 23) and a very upset Alto running after RANKA and calling her name and screaming "DON'T GO!"...
Unlike Orihime whom you compare her to.(You have) When Ranka confessed her love... Alto is WIDE AWAKE, PARTICIPATING and BEGGING HER NOT TO GO. He is also running after the ship and screaming her name like a MANTRA. (She was gone and he was still screaming her name)
Both girls willingly left to protect.

Both guys were powerless against those she left with. Both guys are seen reflecting on the girls departure and displaying pain.

Both guys seemed to have the image of their love's departure embedded in their brains.


In this goodbye Alto (Like Ichigo...)begs her not to go. The you "You dummy!" reminds me of "What kind of joke is this?"
Alto not only screams her name.he was still screaming when she was long gone..

Last but not least.. this reminds me

Another thing that is used as evidence for IchiRuki is these lines
Quote:
"Thank you Rukia. Because of you the rain has stopped."<--refers to her easing the pain and guilt, self-blame he felt.
&"Rukia changed my life. Rukia changed my fate. It is because of Rukia that I can be here now. Fighting to protect everyone"
If you take these lines and compare them to the above quote
"
Quote:
Thank you. Because you did that I was saved. It was the best present ever"
& "I joined SMS because I wanted to protect Ranka. To fight; to protect; ever since then..." (What? Every thing you've done since then has been for Ranka?)
"Thank you" <--because he can achieve his dream through her. Everything Alto is today is because of ONE PERSON. Ranka! (This time I almost said Rukia. I really had to catch that. )
They express nearly same thing.
He's grateful her for saving him. He thanks her for the memories of his mother. He doesn't feel pain over his mothers death nor guilt like he does with Sheryl.I can't understand Cris how you can ignore that.


Alto confesses! (Why are you ALL ignoring it?!)


*Continuous loop....CONFESSED...HE CONFESSED CONFESSED...HE CONFESSED CONFESSED...HE CONFESSED CONFESSED...HE CONFESSED CONFESSED...HE CONFESSED CONFESSED...HE CONFESSED*

Alto not only talks about Ranka.(And only Ranka!)
His feelings for her, he thinks about her. He admits everything he's ever done has been to protect Ranka. <--Not One-sided they both confessed.
when he says "I might have been running away the whole time"
He is talking about his feelings for Ranka not Kabuki
Sheryl overhears and once again she confirms Alto's feelings with "I already knew. ".

"Even if I know it's sympathy I will take advantage"


*Echo...Did not mention love. Sheryl did not say that she knew Alto loved her. (She knows he doesn't) .Did not mention love. Sheryl did not say that she knew Alto loved her. (She knows he doesn't).Did not mention love. Sheryl did not say that she knew Alto loved her. (She knows he doesn't).Did not mention love. Sheryl did not say that she knew Alto loved her. (She knows he doesn't)*

She is used to to compliment Ranka and Alto's romance. She affirms it, by saying it or being placed in a similar situation as Ranka.
and failing where Ranka succeeds


Another thing that has been bugging me...;

Alto's fly in the sky.

I noticed you guys keep saying how Alto chose to "Fly in the Sky" with Sheryl.
Did you ever think about the fact that ...What Alto chose was the sky and not Sheryl?

Here he is indifferent to her as a matter of fact he makes it clear he doesn't really want to be bothered.

Until Sheryl mentions the sky...Then she gets his attention (Except not for long)

Do you realize that before choosing "The Sky" he thought about Ranka, his mothers dreams, and his father also? For him to have a choice between the three of them, means that Ranka is just as important to him or he wouldn't have had to choose. Unlike when he's with Sheryl he isn't reminded of his mothers illness.

And... Sheryl and Alto aren't even together. She is on one plane and He's on another. The sentimentality that she pours into the phone...He doesn't even hear it.



"Huh what did you say?" He's so gassed to be in the plane so he can fly in a real sky. He chose the sky and not Sheryl.

In the end who did he end up sharing the beloved sky with? Where was Sheryl?


I agree that Sheryl's desire to give him the sky touched Alto and made an impression on him.

Sheryl tried to give Alto the sky for his birthday. He's was touched by the lengths she went to at risk to herself to give him this.
She might have had a chance but then this happened...

"Thanks. (I didn't do anything I came of my own decision) Because of that I was saved. IT WAS THE BEST PRESENT EVER!"
@Cris...Ranka saved his life. Ranka changed his fate. It is because of Ranka that he can be here now...
Um do you see how much it means to him?Did you see how he blushes and and makes that cute little mouth. when he tells her, it's because of her he was saved and that was the best present EVER? It's after that he looks at his beloved sky and then back at his beloved Ranka...

(Btw did you notice that he almost hugged her here... Yet caught himself and placed his hands on her arms?)
What's the one thing we all know Alto loves? *DING-DING* The Sky!

So when he says "Sky..." and then looks back at Ranka and blushes. What do you suppose that meant?

Ok since this post is big as hell I will end it here. We will look at all the signals that are indicative of Alto choosing Ranka. You can't discount past episodes just because they were not in your favor. Without the past there is NO FUTURE. That applies to character development as well



Look this over. While I deal with RL. There is a lot I have to say. so I am not finished <--I know you don't really give a damn

Last edited by BleachOD; 2008-09-24 at 17:11.
BleachOD is offline